[redwarrior191]

i'm planning to build my first headphone amplifier, and after researching, it comes down to these two amps.. any suggestions on which amp is more suitable to build for a first timer??
 
also, has anyone heard both?? i'd also grateful if anyone could compare the sound from these two amps..

 

[nikongod]

If you don't have much experience I'd lean towards the CKKiii. It is much easier to source the parts for it & I think you will get better help on the AMB forums or here if you need it. Having everything on 1PCB also makes wiring a bunch easier. 
 
The Dynalo and CKKiii both sound really nice. Between these two I personally prefer the CKKiii, it bridges the gap between the sterotypical "loose and wild" tube and SS "tight and clean" nicely. 

 

[redwarrior191]

thanks for your response.. i'll be building a cmoy around this month to help me learn a thing or two before building the primary amp (i have never done any soldering before, haha).. could you elaborate more on the"sterotypical "loose and wild" tube and SS "tight and clean" nicely"??

sorry i'm still not familiar with the audiophile terms..

 

[liamstrain]

Some people feel that the sound signatures of tube amps trend towards less control and more colored sound (but maybe more emotion/warmth/musicality) compared with Solid state amps which they characterize as more accurate, refined, dry/harsh, etc. 
 
Personally - I find that the sound signatures - while different to my ears, are not THAT apparent, and definitely vary somewhat by circuit type, more than by tube brand, or even by tube vs SS. 
 
Ultimately - here, nikongod is saying that the CKKiii is a good balance between these camps. A good performing, enjoyable to listen to, amp. 

 

[glenda]

The biggest point is not tube vs solid state sound here,  the are both solid state amps.  The main philosophy behind the CKIII is no global NFB.  Mainly tube amps have global feedbak and many don't,   but not mainy headphone amps have no global NFB and such low distortion as the CKIII,  it is a very innovative design to say the least.    So as far as SS amps go its is faily uncolored as opposed to a big opamp running high open loop distortion then cleaning it up with NFB for meaurements. 
 
However the CKIII has much less output power than the beta22,  that probably more than anything else should influence your decision.   Do your headphones have an impedance less than 300 ohms and a sensitivity in the high 90's?  Then probably the ckIII is a very good choice for a pain-free first time build.  Otherwise if you have orthos or 600 ohm AKG's you may want to study up on the Betta22,  its not that dificult if you have keen concentration and can follow a procedure step by step.    Either way as a beginner get the kit from glass jar audio,  the hardest step is ordering the parts there is no reason not to order the kit for a first timer,  the cost is the same.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

So as far as SS amps go its is faily uncolored as opposed to a big opamp running high open loop distortion then cleaning it up with NFB for meaurements. 
 
However the CKIII has much less output power than the beta22,  that probably more than anything else should influence your decision.  

I find the juxtaposition of these 2 sentances amusing. Emphasizing the dominating trend of op amp design (open loop distortion does not matter, we will fix it with feedback) which is the ugliest thing on earth, and then bring up an op amp. The β 22 is a power op amp.
 
I would not base the decision of whether or not to build an amp on its output power unless the power from a given amplifier is inadequate. With 1.4w into 33ohms, and 0.15w into 300ohms I would hardly call it lacking considering that most people never put more than 10mw into a conventional dynamic headphone and even 10mw has a decent bit of overhead. Maybe the ckkiii is a little weak for an orthodynamic, but with ~0.75w into 60ohms (did the maths in my head maybe its a little less) Id certainly try it. 
 
I would not build a b22 unless you are very confident in your ability to get it working. It is a more complicated amp to build, it has MUCH more wiring involved, and it has several catastrophic-failure modes. 

 

[Pars]

Reminded me somewhat of one of Kevin Gilmore's rules for audio design (see headwize where the dynalo was published):
 
[size=x-small]Ultra high open loop gain: REAL, REAL BAD!!! That basically means anything with an opamp in it. Opamp circuits with open loop gains of 10,000 or more require large amounts of feedback to make them usable. While this reduces THD, the intermodulation products, and especially the transient intermodulation products are much higher than they should be. [/size]
 
I would suspect that the B22 is designed along a similar philosophy, but I don't know for sure. I would agree with you on feedback though Ari... the less of it the better soundwise, at least from my experiences of what I have listened to (probably much less than yours). I know I've like the discrete I/V stages I've built and listened to which use no feedback... just makes them a bitch to get stable sometimes (they are DC coupled, so no caps to fall back on).

 

[nikongod]

The B22 has ~60db of open loop gain (voltage gain 1000). Not quite as high as some newer op amps on a chip, but it certainly fits into the criteria that gain be set purely by feedback resistors. The amp is definitely set up for more gain for more feedback. 
 
I also like a little bit of feedback, but not too much.