[Whitigir]

Yes, it all depends on the implementation.

Sometimes it works better.
All Violectric amps are using single ended input (converting any balanced input into single ended) into differential balanced amplifier for a balanced output.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

Differential stages = it Can sum Balanced into Single ended, and or Single ended to be Balanced.

1 single Korg tubes = Single ended. So in this case, amp14 is using the Single Ended source from Korg to output Balanced output

so... is this just a single ended with extra steps? a glorified balanced? or...

 

[mformoriarty]

Thanks Paul! Nice !!! It is fully balanced !!

Also Nice to have Amp12 faceplate to work with it, edition X can enjoy this way as well !!

This makes things difficult for me haha. Do I want the Amp12EX or the Amp14? Can't have the nice faceplate on both. I also wonder how this new one varies from the Amp13, in both power output and sound signature.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

This makes things difficult for me haha. Do I want the Amp12EX or the Amp14? Can't have the nice faceplate on both. I also wonder how this new one varies from the Amp13, in both power output and sound signature.

easy, you want the amp14ex!

 

[Whitigir]

so... is this just a single ended with extra steps? a glorified balanced? or...

It is a balanced out with single ended tube input.

Is it balanced ? Yes
Is it Single ended ? Yes

how can it be both ? Because of 1 korg tube and differential out

 

[justsomesonyfan]

It is a balanced out with single ended tube input.

Is it balanced ? Yes
Is it Single ended ? Yes

how can it be both ? Because of 1 korg tube and differential out

what benefits does it miss due to not having dual korgies?

 

[Whitigir]

what benefits does it miss due to not having dual korgies?

So, coming from 4 active signals lines, even 8x of them. We will be thinking that we can amplify these signals directly and have no consequences but only benefits ? In reality, there are always trade offs. Nothing is all good, and nothing is all bad either. In this case of being Solid states and Opamps, when we combine 4 active signals lines into only 2 lines with Ground references…AKa, differentials, and AKA, Single ended from a Balanced output.

What do we loose ? First of all, we loose the high voltage from Swing to Swing, and it is cut in halves. For example, it should have been 4.4V, but now it is 2.2V instead.

What do we gain ? Higher quality from the Single ended, or whatever remained. The L+ and R+ is now have been improved technically. How so ?

1/ We have summed the Phases errors by using the Ground references, and hence eliminating Crossover Distortions



2/ We also summed the signals up and in turn, canceling out errors, noises (a form of Analog error corrections). Hence, lower floor noises, lowered distortions, and higher dynamic range. One Example is that if you take ESS9038Pro, and you utilize all channels on one single chip, you are not getting 140Db dynamic range, rather you are getting only 133Db or so. However, when you sum them all up into 1 channel, the dynamic range actually is improved

Finally, the benefits we have gained ? Better performances, at the trade offs of Power output. Then again, how did you sum them up, how did the differential stages get implemented ? It play a huge key roles. It is very complex in lab measurements, and also subjective acoustic tuning. Most of the people would want to make it simpler and easier, and to simply follow balanced to balanced and single ended to single ended

Wait! So how come most of the time Balanced output resulting in better separations and soundstage ? Because of power …. Remember ? We trade off the power output for better quality ! Especially when power is such a vital part on the little system of DAP

Now, back to the Differential stage for the output on Amp14. Did we not talk about how beneficials being single-ended could have been ? Then why do we go back to separating it out to be balanced again ? Because Power baby ! We want more power ! And because it is essential for a DAP.

Ok, I am confused, why did we started with Single ended again ? Because we don’t have space for 2 Korg Tubes . Also, Because we want tube distortions and overtones

Is it bad ? Is it good ? It depends on the implementations! Let your ears judge ! But I believe it is the best solution here given what Ibasso have to work with. At least, we are not seeing another “Non innovated ideas as other brands ”

 

[jamato8]

Some expensive amps use single ended in and balanced out. You can do it with op amps or in the case of a tube amp, the output transformer and it works great. I have two amps that are balanced through out and can take SE in and go to Balanced out or Bal to Bal out and I can't hear a difference. I would be totally fine with AMP14 and not give a second thought to the differential output.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

So, coming from 4 active signals lines, even 8x of them. We will be thinking that we can amplify these signals directly and have no consequences but only benefits ? In reality, there are always trade offs. Nothing is all good, and nothing is all bad either. In this case of being Solid states and Opamps, when we combine 4 active signals lines into only 2 lines with Ground references…AKa, differentials, and AKA, Single ended from a Balanced output.

What do we loose ? First of all, we loose the high voltage from Swing to Swing, and it is cut in halves. For example, it should have been 4.4V, but now it is 2.2V instead.

What do we gain ? Higher quality from the Single ended, or whatever remained. The L+ and R+ is now have been improved technically. How so ?

1/ We have summed the Phases errors by using the Ground references, and hence eliminating Crossover Distortions



2/ We also summed the signals up and in turn, canceling out errors, noises (a form of Analog error corrections). Hence, lower floor noises, lowered distortions, and higher dynamic range. One Example is that if you take ESS9038Pro, and you utilize all channels on one single chip, you are not getting 140Db dynamic range, rather you are getting only 133Db or so. However, when you sum them all up into 1 channel, the dynamic range actually is improved

Finally, the benefits we have gained ? Better performances, at the trade offs of Power output. Then again, how did you sum them up, how did the differential stages get implemented ? It play a huge key roles. It is very complex in lab measurements, and also subjective acoustic tuning. Most of the people would want to make it simpler and easier, and to simply follow balanced to balanced and single ended to single ended

Wait! So how come most of the time Balanced output resulting in better separations and soundstage ? Because of power …. Remember ? We trade off the power output for better quality ! Especially when power is such a vital part on the little system of DAP

Now, back to the Differential stage for the output on Amp14. Did we not talk about how beneficials being single-ended could have been ? Then why do we go back to separating it out to be balanced again ? Because Power baby ! We want more power ! And because it is essential for a DAP.

Ok, I am confused, why did we started with Single ended again ? Because we don’t have space for 2 Korg Tubes . Also, Because we want tube distortions and overtones

Is it bad ? Is it good ? It depends on the implementations! Let your ears judge ! But I believe it is the best solution here given what Ibasso have to work with. At least, we are not seeing another “Non innovated ideas as other brands ”

so.... mainly SE with output power of balanced? (and some other small benefits)

 

[Whitigir]

Some expensive amps use single ended in and balanced out. You can do it with op amps or in the case of a tube amp, the output transformer and it works great. I have two amps that are balanced through out and can take SE in and go to Balanced out or Bal to Bal out and I can't hear a difference. I would be totally fine with AMP14 and not give a second thought to the differential output.

Yes! It is all about the implementations and how it was tuned. The dampening factor and the power output

My desktop 300B amplifier is Balanced in and Single ended out all the way

 

[Whitigir]

so.... mainly SE with output power of balanced? (and some other small benefits)

that is correct , and whether the benefits are small ? We don’t know

 

[jamato8]

so.... mainly SE with output power of balanced? (and some other small benefits)

Balanced output power with the benefits of balanced out being a little larger sound stage, bass control, and other things that go along with balanced output.

 

[justsomesonyfan]

that is correct

interesting! personally have heard some terrific sounding Single ended outputs so i'm not very opposed to it my interest in the dx320 is peaking again

 

[NAD Fi]

post deleted for inappropriate and coarse celebratory language.

 

[mformoriarty]

Balanced output power with the benefits of balanced out being a little larger sound stage, bass control, and other things that go along with balanced output.

Hoping that's the case. Gonna order one as soon as they are up. I really liked the Amp13 but I have a preference for 4.4mm. Not one for swapping cables constantly and not all my devices have swappable interconnects like the dunu cables.