[German Expat in Vietnam]

There are places thatgo way beyond reading made up numbers or using made up measurements, so it's almost too ''grounded'' here!

Ohh ohhh for what a crazy thread i stay now??

 

[German Expat in Vietnam]

A question for @twister 6. I can get the Campfire Audio Ara from my dealer. They are only 80 euros more expensive than the Advar. Which one would you take??? You tested both. I think with DX 320 and Am13 the would definitely not be bad either.

 

[twister6]

A question for @twister 6. I can get the Campfire Audio Ara from my dealer. They are only 80 euros more expensive than the Advar. Which one would you take??? You tested both. I think with DX 320 and Am13 the would definitely not be bad either.

Give me a few days to process this. I need to analyze FR curves and check my math calculations to let you know which one sounds better.

 

[German Expat in Vietnam]

Give me a few days to process this. I need to analyze FR curves and check my math calculations to let you know which one sounds better.

Yes thank you. My dealer here is having a clearance sale. The Vietnamese don't seem to like the Campfire Audio Ara . Their stock is full. They are definitely original, had also bought the Dorado 2020 from the company, like all my devices. I got a special price of the equivalent of 695 euros. Almost half what it costs in Germany. The fact that the Vietnamese don't seem to like CA Ara doesn't really bother me. They also like karaoke with absolutely weird tones and damn loud. The worst what I hear in my live But normally i must buy for this price.

 

[German Expat in Vietnam]

Campfire Audio could be a very good addition to my Monarch MKII. Also, I no longer have a BA IEM. What do you guys think???

 

[twister6]

Yes thank you. My dealer here is having a clearance sale. The Vietnamese don't seem to like the Campfire Audio Ara . Their stock is full. They are definitely original, had also bought the Dorado 2020 from the company, like all my devices. I got a special price of the equivalent of 695 euros. Almost half what it costs in Germany. The fact that the Vietnamese don't seem to like CA Ara doesn't really bother me. They also like karaoke with absolutely weird tones and damn loud. The worst what I hear in my live But normally i must buy for this price.

Advar and Ara are two differently tuned IEMs, pick one based on its sound, not the price or the looks. Or better yet, you have a local dealer who has it in stock, at least Ara, so audition it and see how you like it with DX320 and your favorite tracks, trust your own ears, bud But, overall, Ara has a flat neutral bass, more mid-forward signature, crisp treble, and it will get brighter and probably more suited for those who like to analyze their sound or into j-pop/k-pop. Advar has a more balanced signature with a deeper and more elevated bass, less forward mids (relative to Ara) and the treble which can go from natural to bright depending on eartips selection (Advar has short nozzle, shallow insertion, and depending on the seal and eartips you use, treble can go either way). I'm not a big fan of Monarch mk2, but it sounds better than Ara.

 

[samandhi]

Give me a few days to process this. I need to analyze FR curves and check my math calculations to let you know which one sounds better.

ROFL!

Campfire Audio could be a very good addition to my Monarch MKII. Also, I no longer have a BA IEM. What do you guys think???

If you are talking about an all BA set, I really like the Audiosense T800 (8 BA), or new from their sister company the Tingker H16 (8 BA) which I have yet to hear, but am reading it is a smoother version of the T800. Also there is the popular DUNU SA6. I don't have the SA6, but have heard them, and they sound very good.

I am more partial to the T800 though, and they are much less money too. Some find the T800 to be a bit harsh in the treble region, though I do not at all. Keep in mind that I am not sensitive to treble though, but I find no sibilance of any kind, they are just super detailed, and unforgiving of low quality recordings. I am, however to the presence region (which these are not overly boosted in). Apparently the Tingker H16 fixes that harsh treble area that people have complained about.

Just some starting places for you.

 

[NoobasaurusWrex]

I initially found this annoying but almost every streaming service out there has an offline mode were you can download the music to your phone. For Spotify, it only has to check in every 30 days. Tidal has one, apple does also.

The main issue I noticed is there is more noise while it's being used. I noticed this when downloading the last firmware update from iBasso. I get 15MB/s but there was a lot of sound/crackling during the download, as soon as it finished the noise pretty much went away all together.

When buffering a song your going to have some initial noise but the DX320 can download songs quick unless your ISP options suck.

It gets better in time and I don't notice it anymore unless I'm blowing with Chrome or using any other Android app but that's what my phone is for. No email, messaging. Chat apps, just music on the DAP so with offline mode from Spotify and a lot of local music, it's not that big of a deal, it gets drowned out when listening to music. Even on Wifi.

With the AMP13 card in, go download a large file and you will most likely get the same results but how often are you not going to be listening to something if you have your DAP and IEM's/headphones in/on. Also, offline mode saves bandwidth if you have the storage space and you can store the music on the SD card. At least with Spotify. Just Google your service (Apple music) and offline mode. It does get better, probably 150 hours on the AMP13.

I'm aware of all of this, and most streaming services will cache streamed files to the local disk and replay from the cache if the song is present. Under these conditions, a cached song will only have noise for the first 2-3 seconds max while the client checks with the API to ensure you have a valid license to listen to the song. Only when you are listening to a new song that isn't in the cache will it take a bit longer to download the file into the local cache.

Some clients (Spotify I believe) will let you adjust the size of the cache as well, at least on desktop, so an option to reduce noise can also be to increase the size of your cache. My taste in music is all over the place so I listen to random stuff all the time, I don't really have a whole lot of "go to" albums that I would download locally and keep around permanently. Most of those I have already started looking for local FLAC or DSD files for, though I haven't really been able to find much of the latter. As I have already mentioned, the little bit of noise at the beginning of the song doesn't really bother me that much, and if it starts to then I can always swap the old amp back in for a noise free experience.

EDIT: I just looked on my DX320 and Apple Music for Android has an option to change the cache size. It defaults to 250MB, but I cranked it up to the max of 5GB since I don't really have much local music. This should help cut down on prolonged noise for future listens.

 

[ginandbacon]

Yeah, OK, people on this boards have very strong and fixed opinions. Except when they like a player then they never liked it. Or when the new firmware is worse then it's better.

Regarding the SOC, you are confusing the word size with data structures size. The SOC might be working on 64 bits but it will handle data on 8, 16, 32, 64 and even larger. Or bitstream.

I would normally add "trust me, I'm a software engineer" but people around here only trust their ears, that's why they imagine things that aren't there.

While measurements are important, they aren't everything. There is no measurement for sound quality. I remember reading this interview and the below it true for all AV equipment including displays and any regular speakers. I mean, they sell 40K DACs, so they must be doing something right.

Since they raised the subject, I asked how they felt about measurements. "There is a reason for measurement up to the point that you reach a certain level of what I call 'hygiene,'" Ed Meitner said. "Beyond that, you need to perform a voicing that produces 10 octaves of sound. It will always come down to the sound you hear. The measurement is the 'hygiene,' and the listening is the final performance. Only after that do we put our name to it. We hope that we make as transparent a sound—I would say 'no sound'—as possible. We are in the anticoloration business.

"I think some people think that a microphone hears the same way as our ears. So, we have these room correction devices that fool you into believing that they create the perfect listening environment because the microphone tells you so. The same thing happens when you look at your distortion analyzer or whatever makes you think you're okay. You're far from okay.

"There are sonic differences that cannot be measured. I won't say they will never be able to be measured, but as far as we know, there's no current measurements that will guarantee sound. I can give you an example. When solid state amplifiers came on the scene, people hated the sound because they used maximum power distortion measurements [to gauge success]. But all the problems were at zero-crossing distortion, which was a measurement that wasn't really included. As the level was going down, the distortion was going up relative to it. So, it was only after listening that the measurement was finally included. "There will always be a new measurement that will be discovered. For example, the effect of jitter was initially ignored."

 

[samandhi]

While measurements are important, they aren't everything. There is no measurement for sound quality. I remember reading this interview and the below it true for all AV equipment including displays and any regular speakers. I mean, they sell 40K DACs, so they must be doing something right.

Since they raised the subject, I asked how they felt about measurements. "There is a reason for measurement up to the point that you reach a certain level of what I call 'hygiene,'" Ed Meitner said. "Beyond that, you need to perform a voicing that produces 10 octaves of sound. It will always come down to the sound you hear. The measurement is the 'hygiene,' and the listening is the final performance. Only after that do we put our name to it. We hope that we make as transparent a sound—I would say 'no sound'—as possible. We are in the anticoloration business.

"I think some people think that a microphone hears the same way as our ears. So, we have these room correction devices that fool you into believing that they create the perfect listening environment because the microphone tells you so. The same thing happens when you look at your distortion analyzer or whatever makes you think you're okay. You're far from okay.

"There are sonic differences that cannot be measured. I won't say they will never be able to be measured, but as far as we know, there's no current measurements that will guarantee sound. I can give you an example. When solid state amplifiers came on the scene, people hated the sound because they used maximum power distortion measurements [to gauge success]. But all the problems were at zero-crossing distortion, which was a measurement that wasn't really included. As the level was going down, the distortion was going up relative to it. So, it was only after listening that the measurement was finally included. "There will always be a new measurement that will be discovered. For example, the effect of jitter was initially ignored."

Very interesting read! Thanks for sharing.

 

[ginandbacon]

Very interesting read! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, I just noticed this footnote about the guy they interviewed which I found fascinating. When researching the Monarch MKII's there was some guy on YouTube saying the monarchs where trash but he had never actually heard them. He was 100 percent basing this on the measurement chart done by crinnacle.

I guess what he was not aware of is crinnacle had posted a video saying they were definitely worth the money if you could afford it because he reviewed them yet when confronted, he wouldn't back down, even though he has never even heard them once. That's like me reviewing Sony's 5.8 million dollar 790 inch 16K modular LED TV because that's "watch me park my boat into my yacht" kind of money.

Footnote 2: Founder/President Ed Meitner received a patent in 1993 for describing the phenomenon that produces program-related jitter and explaining how to remove accumulated music-correlated jitter by reclocking an audio datastream. EMM Labs Director of Sales Shahin Al Rashid told me in an email, "Although re-clocking is now widely used, Ed is chagrined that it is often implemented ineffectively by not following the patent completely. The central point in Ed's patent that is often missed is that because jitter is propagated and amplified through power-supply interactions, each clock-generator and clock-distribution circuit, as well as every re-clocker chip, must have its own stable power-supply, individually regulated and separate from the system power supply." In 2012, Ed Meitner developed the first DACs with sub-picosecond (or femtosecond) clock jitter in their reference clock oscillators.

 

[jamato8]

Thanks, I just noticed this footnote about the guy they interviewed which I found fascinating. When researching the Monarch MKII's there was some guy on YouTube saying the monarchs where trash but he had never actually heard them. He was 100 percent basing this on the measurement chart done by crinnacle.

I guess what he was not aware of is crinnacle had posted a video saying they were definitely worth the money if you could afford it because he reviewed them yet when confronted, he wouldn't back down, even though he has never even heard them once. That's like me reviewing Sony's 5.8 million dollar 790 inch 16K modular LED TV because that's "watch me park my boat into my yacht" kind of money.

Footnote 2: Founder/President Ed Meitner received a patent in 1993 for describing the phenomenon that produces program-related jitter and explaining how to remove accumulated music-correlated jitter by reclocking an audio datastream. EMM Labs Director of Sales Shahin Al Rashid told me in an email, "Although re-clocking is now widely used, Ed is chagrined that it is often implemented ineffectively by not following the patent completely. The central point in Ed's patent that is often missed is that because jitter is propagated and amplified through power-supply interactions, each clock-generator and clock-distribution circuit, as well as every re-clocker chip, must have its own stable power-supply, individually regulated and separate from the system power supply." In 2012, Ed Meitner developed the first DACs with sub-picosecond (or femtosecond) clock jitter in their reference clock oscillators.

Sadly people, some, too often think they outwit all. They don't understand what they don't understand.

 

[samandhi]

Thanks, I just noticed this footnote about the guy they interviewed which I found fascinating. When researching the Monarch MKII's there was some guy on YouTube saying the monarchs where trash but he had never actually heard them. He was 100 percent basing this on the measurement chart done by crinnacle.

I guess what he was not aware of is crinnacle had posted a video saying they were definitely worth the money if you could afford it because he reviewed them yet when confronted, he wouldn't back down, even though he has never even heard them once. That's like me reviewing Sony's 5.8 million dollar 790 inch 16K modular LED TV because that's "watch me park my boat into my yacht" kind of money.

Footnote 2: Founder/President Ed Meitner received a patent in 1993 for describing the phenomenon that produces program-related jitter and explaining how to remove accumulated music-correlated jitter by reclocking an audio datastream. EMM Labs Director of Sales Shahin Al Rashid told me in an email, "Although re-clocking is now widely used, Ed is chagrined that it is often implemented ineffectively by not following the patent completely. The central point in Ed's patent that is often missed is that because jitter is propagated and amplified through power-supply interactions, each clock-generator and clock-distribution circuit, as well as every re-clocker chip, must have its own stable power-supply, individually regulated and separate from the system power supply." In 2012, Ed Meitner developed the first DACs with sub-picosecond (or femtosecond) clock jitter in their reference clock oscillators.

Yeah, I have seen on this forum people doing the same thing. Any good reviewer worth their "salt" (for instance) won't even look at FR curves until they have assessed the head gear, so that it doesn't unduly influence their objectivity (which are the reviews I tend to read the most). I wish I could say that I don't look at those until later, but truth is that most head gear that I purchase must be done so blindly, and I need to research all the information I can about them to be even partially informed; though I don't make a decision based solely on those curves.

Oh interesting! Ok iBasso how's come there aren't three batteries in the DXxx to control the clock (the most) accurately??

It totally makes sense, and I think that the "compromises" are/have been very clever to overcome this (as an example).

 

[samandhi]

They don't understand what they don't understand.

Simple, yet very deep; and so very true!

 

[horatiu]

Some of you can't even bother to read. I never said anything about measurements, nor has anyone else, unless I missed something.

I was following audiosciencereview and gave up on it pretty quickly because those people are obsessed with measurements and don't even listen to the devices.

Earlier I was talking about "quantization errors" - that has nothing to do with measurements, it's just math. Don't be scared of it.

Thing is, for a long time I've avoided posting on here because of the large number of people that talk nonsense about mambo-jambo and react aggressively.

I was only triggered when a certain well know member tried to back his nonsense about "burn in" with some "science" because he is well aware most people don't know what that means and are too lazy to check it up. And even if they do bother, they likely won't understand (and that's normal). But it gives people the impression that there is some scientific background. Unfortunately this is now a widely used tactic to spread lies and conspiracies. There is no scientific backing for "burning in", none whatsoever. It's your choice to believe in it, like it's your choice to belive in God, just don't pretend there is any science behind it. There isn't.

Similarly, there is no sound changes between firmwares. I am happy to be proven wrong by @Paul - iBasso (since he knows what the engineers are doing) , but no amount of posts that claim to hear differences will change my mind, especially when posters contradict themselves (seriously, if the newer firmware "ruins" the sound for you, then magically it makes it better a couple of pages later, don't you think it's more likely you are imagining things?).

"They don't understand what they don't understand."

Yeah, that's very deep, you found the mystical meaning, the hidden truth that only reveals itself to the initiated ones.
It's quite ironic to say something like that when you make things up.

Now, I'll let you guys get back in peace to your things.