DUNU DN-2000J -- More Than Evolution?

[tomscy2000]

Awesome comparison, as always, James!

 

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif  Gone, too, is the AKG's vocal warmth, fundamentals sound leaner, vocals brighter and more immediate. Percussion more forward to a point where it's almost competing with the vocalist. A significantly more analytical rendering overall, but also more in-your-face and less 3D than the K3003's.

 
I hear the mids a little differently, as I pick up the tiniest more warmth in the DN-2000J for the lower midrange, perhaps because of additional resolution from the bass driver, but because the rest of the upper midrange and treble are brighter with the DN-2000J.
 

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif  Fortunately the K3003 steer clear of these difficulties and retain good bass detail, at least at low to medium volume. But in direct A/B comparison it becomes obvious that the 2000J offer better definition and more headroom, particularly for those who prefer to listen a bit louder. Likewise, I'd think that listeners who are used to ultra-fast BA bass will likely prefer the 2000J's transients to the K3003's, although the deeper 3D effect of the AKG's slower decay has its own special charm.

 

 
Haha... I actually agree that the K3003's bass has its own charm (actually like the more one-note presentation of the XBA-A3 a lot), but I'm a resolution-head, and the more I can hear, say, a typani's various bass rolls evolve in nodal frequency over time, the more I enjoy my music. I also don't think the DN-2000J's bass is ultra-quick, but more that it's so ridiculously resolving of low-level bass detail. I swear I'm noticing more varied textures in the bass with them than any other earphone I've ever heard, with the exception of perhaps the JH Roxanne, and I'm not even sure because it's been over half a year since I last listened to those earphones.
 

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Yup, it's Polish. And nope, I don't understand a single word either. But damn that lady can sing, and that's not even all. Let's focus on 3:50+ where she launches into a spine-chilling scream that somehow morphs into a guitar solo... well at least on the K3003, it definitely sounds like a guitar solo. On the 2000J, I'm not quite sure whether it's supposed to be a guitar solo with accompanying percussion, or a percussion solo with accompanying guitar Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you get the picture... in other words, cymbals on the 2000J sound a tad too splashy to these ears, with stuff like this. Not a biggie, but I think the K3003 have ever so slightly better balance throughout the upper mids and highs.
 
So, let's get to the bottom of the 2000J's upper range and move on to one of my most unforgiving test tracks. Don't get me wrong, I dearly love this piece. But the finale can be plain torture with overly bright / harsh / splashy IEMs, when strings and brass decide to team up and bring out the knifes to attack your eardrum...
 
What can I say, I've heard worse, much worse. But there's no denying that the 2000J are tethering on the brink of what I personally can bear without flinching. In fact, it was this track that convinced me that the clear silicone tips benefit from additional damping. However, like with the K3003 and bass (see track 2), it ultimately depends on listening volume, so those who listen too loudly with the K3003 will probably complain about bad bass definition, and those who listen too loudly with the 2000J will probably complain about treble spikes. Pick your poison... or stay within a reasonable volume range.

 
Ladies and gentlemen: the DN-2000J's weakness in a nutshell.
 

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif  Now for the dreaded c-word, let's make this short and sweet: the 2000J win. They may sound a bit more edgy and fatiguing overall, but their titanium-coated bass driver is a better companion to their fast-decaying armature than the K3003's comparatively softer bass implementation. As a result, note-weight on the 2000J is surprisingly coherent across the whole piano spectrum, while it's definitely easier to pick out different driver characteristics with low and high piano notes on the K3003.

 
Just wanted to remind people that it's not that the bass driver sounds like a BA --- it still sounds distinctively like a dynamic, but it manages to hit everything with ease. I hate bloat in dynamic drivers. This is probably the most zero-bloat dynamic I've ever heard.
 

Originally Posted by james444 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I've been listening pretty much exclusively to the K3003 and 2000J for two weeks now, and imo both belong without a doubt to the top league of IEMs. However, no IEMs I've heard to date have been without weaknesses, and sure enough these two aren't perfect either, despite their many virtues. Please read the above impressions to get a detailed idea of their pros and cons from my subjective listener's point of view.
 
But here's the most interesting aspect of my two week's journey: I started out thinking the 2000J were pretty much K3003 clones with minor variations here and there. But the longer I'm listening to them, the more I'm convinced that there may be different priorities, even different mindsets behind these phones. On the one hand AKG, opting for a sound signature that's at the same time highly detailed, comparatively non-fatiguing and impressively spacious. High-end (dynamic driver) headphone sound may have been their standard, and they (or rather Knowles) may have put considerable effort into coaxing the armatures to support that design goal. On the other hand DUNU, taking a no-compromise-whatsoever approach on clarity / resolution and creating a set of hybrid IEMs that not only can go head to head with the best multi-BAs in that regard, but even best them in bass texture with their super-rigid dynamic driver. Granted, they may not be among the least fatiguing and most 3D sounding phones out there, but they offer one of the clearest windows into the music you'll ever experience.
 
Bottom line: two winners, pretty much at eye level with each other. Two highly attractive offerings, but with slightly different sonic flavors. If money is no object, simply choose the one that suits you better (or get both . If you're on a budget, the 2000J are a no-brainer.

 

 

 

[tomscy2000]

BTW, people who are having trouble with an over-ear fit, should take off any fins and position the securing tab in between the intertragal notch of the pinnae.

 

[Raketen]

Have not heard the 3003 but inclined to agree there is a touch of warmth to the 2000j mids.

 

[james444]

  Awesome comparison, as always, James!

 
Thanks, Tom!

 

  I hear the mids a little differently, as I pick up the tiniest more warmth in the DN-2000J for the lower midrange, perhaps because of additional resolution from the bass driver, but because the rest of the upper midrange and treble are brighter with the DN-2000J.

  Have not heard the 3003 but inclined to agree there is a touch of warmth to the 2000j mids.

 
Idk, my K3003's bass peak is noticeably higher up than the 2000J's, so it affects the lower mids a good deal more. To my ears, all vocals sound fuller and warmer on the AKGs, female vocals on the DUNUs sound thinner and male vocals take a back seat vs. female vocals in duets. All in comparison to the K3003, mind you, not on an absolute scale.

 

[d marc0]

   
 
Haha... I actually agree that the K3003's bass has its own charm (actually like the more one-note presentation of the XBA-A3 a lot), but I'm a resolution-head, and the more I can hear, say, a typani's various bass rolls evolve in nodal frequency over time, the more I enjoy my music. I also don't think the DN-2000J's bass is ultra-quick, but more that it's so ridiculously resolving of low-level bass detail. I swear I'm noticing more varied textures in the bass with them than any other earphone I've ever heard, with the exception of perhaps the JH Roxanne, and I'm not even sure because it's been over half a year since I last listened to those earphones.
 
 
 
Just wanted to remind people that it's not that the bass driver sounds like a BA --- it still sounds distinctively like a dynamic, but it manages to hit everything with ease. I hate bloat in dynamic drivers. This is probably the most zero-bloat dynamic I've ever heard.
 
 
 

 
Same observation here. Listening to Metallica's Call of Ktulu, the bass lines which are really hard to hear on most IEMs are better presented on the DN-2000j. Even better than the T-PEOS H200 (my favourite IEM for metal) from memory.
 
The DN-2000j has an excellent balance between sub-bass and mid-bass, perfect to my ears. What makes it more impressive is the seamless transition to the mid-range. The cohesiveness from sub-bass to mid-range in this IEM is nothing short of amazing!

 

[mochill]

you guy making me want something I can't afford

 

[Aero Dynamik]

  K3003 vs. DN2000J sound comparison:
 

Spoiler: The rest of james444's post...

 
Impressions and thoughts from A/B listening sessions with the K3003 and 2000J at low to medium volume.
 
 
1. Joni Mitchell - In France they kiss on main street (play a 30sec loop starting at 00:10)
 
 
 
This is from one of my all-time favorite live albums: Joni Mitchell on vocals, Jaco Pastorius on bass, Pat Metheny on guitar... need I say more?
 
Even though the K3003 and 2000J share a lot of similar traits, they're overall surprisingly different in how they render this track. First of all, the 2000J are a lot clearer, crisper and more immediate. The K3003s sound almost laid-back in comparison, Joni's voice relaxed with a slight warm-ish hue, Jaco's brilliant bass a tad on the soft side, but a solid foundation to the mids and lending depth to the performance. Vocals virtually floating on top of the bass line. Percussion rather polite, tastefully taking a back seat, leaving the center stage to the mids.
 
With the 2000J, bass gains tightness, its main emphasis shifting a bit towards deep bass. A noticeable improvement in low range clarity, though part of the depth is lost as a result of faster decay. Gone, too, is the AKG's vocal warmth, fundamentals sound leaner, vocals brighter and more immediate. Percussion more forward to a point where it's almost competing with the vocalist. A significantly more analytical rendering overall, but also more in-your-face and less 3D than the K3003's.
 
 
2. Harvey Summers - Jupiter (play a 60sec loop starting at 01:00)
 

 
Now, how much "faster" is the 2000J's bass in reality, and is the K3003's actually "slow"? I use two different test tracks to assess bass transients, an extremely fast recording (Origin - The Aftermath) and a slower, yet highly reverberant track. Here's the latter one, featuring the great Danny Thompson on bass, and it can sound like a river of mud with overly bloated or reverberant IEMs, when decay fails to keep up with a steady supply of bass energy.
 
Fortunately the K3003 steer clear of these difficulties and retain good bass detail, at least at low to medium volume. But in direct A/B comparison it becomes obvious that the 2000J offer better definition and more headroom, particularly for those who prefer to listen a bit louder. Likewise, I'd think that listeners who are used to ultra-fast BA bass will likely prefer the 2000J's transients to the K3003's, although the deeper 3D effect of the AKG's slower decay has its own special charm.
 
 
3. Natalia Sikora - Euforia (play a 60sec loop starting at 03:30)
 
(Edit: got notified that this video doesn't work in all countries - please try the soundcloud link instead)
 

 
Yup, it's Polish. And nope, I don't understand a single word either. But damn that lady can sing, and that's not even all. Let's focus on 3:50+ where she launches into a spine-chilling scream that somehow morphs into a guitar solo... well at least on the K3003, it definitely sounds like a guitar solo. On the 2000J, I'm not quite sure whether it's supposed to be a guitar solo with accompanying percussion, or a percussion solo with accompanying guitar Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you get the picture... in other words, cymbals on the 2000J sound a tad too splashy to these ears, with stuff like this. Not a biggie, but I think the K3003 have ever so slightly better balance throughout the upper mids and highs.
 
 
5. Brahms - Symphonie N° 2 (loop from 45:15 till the end)
 

 
So, let's get to the bottom of the 2000J's upper range and move on to one of my most unforgiving test tracks. Don't get me wrong, I dearly love this piece. But the finale can be plain torture with overly bright / harsh / splashy IEMs, when strings and brass decide to team up and bring out the knifes to attack your eardrum...
 
What can I say, I've heard worse, much worse. But there's no denying that the 2000J are tethering on the brink of what I personally can bear without flinching. In fact, it was this track that convinced me that the clear silicone tips benefit from additional damping. However, like with the K3003 and bass (see track 2), it ultimately depends on listening volume, so those who listen too loudly with the K3003 will probably complain about bad bass definition, and those who listen too loudly with the 2000J will probably complain about treble spikes. Pick your poison... or stay within a reasonable volume range.
 
 
6. Beethoven - Sonata No. 28 in A major - II. Vivace alla Marcia (play entire track)
 

 
For some reason, I've found that piano is one of the hardest instruments to reproduce and one of the most relentless to reveal deficiencies in IEMs. It also spans a wide frequency range, hence it's ideally suited to assess timbre across the entire spectrum, and (dare I say it coherence. With this particular track, I have a delicate relationship, because it made me fall in love with the Sennheiser Orpheus, and... it literally killed my Ortofon e-Q8. But enough rambling, let's get to the point.
 
Once again, the 2000J and K3003 sound similar at first, but as you listen deeper the 2000J's lack of warmth in the lower range and more forward upper range lend them a slightly harder edge and more directness. Everything sounds extremely clear and very much upfront on the Dunus, whereas the K3003 provide more of a room feel and a slightly warmer, smoother, more refined listening experience. (Speaking of which, it's mind-boggling how the Orpheus effortlessly manages to convey all the energy of the piano without the slightest hint of edginess or metallic sheen - I'm looking at you, TWFK .
 
Now for the dreaded c-word, let's make this short and sweet: the 2000J win. They may sound a bit more edgy and fatiguing overall, but their titanium-coated bass driver is a better companion to their fast-decaying armature than the K3003's comparatively softer bass implementation. As a result, note-weight on the 2000J is surprisingly coherent across the whole piano spectrum, while it's definitely easier to pick out different driver characteristics with low and high piano notes on the K3003.
 
 
Conclusion:
 
I've been listening pretty much exclusively to the K3003 and 2000J for two weeks now, and imo both belong without a doubt to the top league of IEMs. However, no IEMs I've heard to date have been without weaknesses, and sure enough these two aren't perfect either, despite their many virtues. Please read the above impressions to get a detailed idea of their pros and cons from my subjective listener's point of view.
 
But here's the most interesting aspect of my two week's journey: I started out thinking the 2000J were pretty much K3003 clones with minor variations here and there. But the longer I'm listening to them, the more I'm convinced that there may be different priorities, even different mindsets behind these phones. On the one hand AKG, opting for a sound signature that's at the same time highly detailed, comparatively non-fatiguing and impressively spacious. High-end (dynamic driver) headphone sound may have been their standard, and they (or rather Knowles) may have put considerable effort into coaxing the armatures to support that design goal. On the other hand DUNU, taking a no-compromise-whatsoever approach on clarity / resolution and creating a set of hybrid IEMs that not only can go head to head with the best multi-BAs in that regard, but even best them in bass texture with their super-rigid dynamic driver. Granted, they may not be among the least fatiguing and most 3D sounding phones out there, but they offer one of the clearest windows into the music you'll ever experience.
 
Bottom line: two winners, pretty much at eye level with each other. Two highly attractive offerings, but with slightly different sonic flavors. If money is no object, simply choose the one that suits you better (or get both . If you're on a budget, the 2000J are a no-brainer.

 

 

James444, I've just finished reading your posts in this thread; very interesting and clearly written, thank you! However, nowhere(?) do you mention which AKG K3003 filters you were using while comparing these phones. Now, I would assume you've been using the "Reference filters"? However, in my book the "Reference filters" never made the K3003 shine to its full extent and capability. The impact of filter choice on the K3003 is quite dramatic and I believe I once described the "High boost" filters as "The naked truth filters" although I'm aware the general consensus was that the "reference" filters were "the best", right?
 
Playing the violin as a hobbyist I've really come to appreciate a good "bite" from my IEMs - without the tendencies of "distortion" (for lack of a better word) that I experienced from the FX850 -  so that's a pretty big deal for me and one of the reasons I appreciate (adore) the very realistic tuning of the Carbo Tenores (although it leaves much to be desired in other fields) which you once led me too (THANK YOU!). Now, I can't make up my mind whether I should go for the K3003 again (High boost filters) or get the J. Just having spent about $7000 on "musical equipment" I really don't want to get both of them and then also having to go through the hassle of selling one of them. Well, maybe it will be unavoidable no matter what you say. 

 
I believe someone in this thread wrote that the J is somewhere between the "Reference" and the "High boost" filters of the K3003. Would you agree and would it be possible for you to elaborate a bit on this? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks!

 

[Aero Dynamik]

  you guy making me want something I can't afford

I don't know where we'd be without your personal reflections mocill? They somehow bind the endless universe and our small existence on this planet - who knows where - together...

 

[d marc0]

An excellent listen with the DN2000j, it highlights all its strengths.

https://youtu.be/KPQNKdgYIQI

 

[audiobot]

Any comparisons to the Aurisonics Rockets or Shure 846?

 

[james444]

  James444, I've just finished reading your posts in this thread; very interesting and clearly written, thank you! However, nowhere(?) do you mention which AKG K3003 filters you were using while comparing these phones. Now, I would assume you've been using the "Reference filters"? However, in my book the "Reference filters" never made the K3003 shine to its full extent and capability. The impact of filter choice on the K3003 is quite dramatic and I believe I once described the "High boost" filters as "The naked truth filters" although I'm aware the general consensus was that the "reference" filters were "the best", right?

 
You're right, sorry for the confusion!

 
I've been using the "reference" filters. Personally, I'm not a fan of the K3003's "high boost" filters, because to my ears bass impact and dynamics at low volume feel a lot more realistic with the "reference" filters.
 

  I believe someone in this thread wrote that the J is somewhere between the "Reference" and the "High boost" filters of the K3003. Would you agree and would it be possible for you to elaborate a bit on this? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks!

 
I haven't tried the "high boost" filters in ages, but that comparison should be interesting. Will give it a shot as soon as I can find the time.

 

[Raketen]

  Any comparisons to the Aurisonics Rockets or Shure 846?

I haven't spent too much time listening to the Rockets, but did a quick comparison out of my laptop and JDS C5D- the 2000J (using spiraldot tips, no spacers) are significantly more sensitive than the Rockets (using small sureseals) which makes it tough to find approximately similar volumes, and I have no "audiophile memory" to speak of so please take with a metric tonne of salt-
 
I'm pretty impressed with the Rockets bass, especially considering how tiny they are,  but the 2000J come off with a little better presence to me, using some vague words I would say they sound a bit flatter/"cleaner" (or "tighter" maybe?) and dig deeper into the subs, also having some room to stretch in terms of the C5D's bass boost, wheras the Rockets are just about tapped out.
 
I find the Rockets to be warm-ish but with solid highs/detail, the 2000j have a little bit of a similarity in the mids, up to a point, but as someone else noted, once you get to the upper mids/treble the 2000J's brightness & detail kicks in- switching between the two it can seem a bit harsh, almost even peaky, but in my regular listening with the 2000J thats something I only occasionally notice (especially w/ the smaller bore Sony Hybrid tips which I use to tame occasional sibilance (not a problem with the Rockets in my experience), but also seem to attenuate or smoothe-out highs a bit). The Rockets do a pretty good job in this area, but comparatively subdued, and can occasionally sound a bit congested in the treble/highs by comparison- though on some tracks they can also sound a little more 'cohesive' (then again maybe this is just intuition placebo thing of "one driver vs hybrid multi driver"

).
 
In terms of stage/presentation, the Rockets seem to me closer/inside my head, where the 2000j sound a little further out (tips don't seem to change this with either)- though the Rockets seem to have a little extra dimension/height to the sound while the 2000J stays more within the same plane, even though it sounds a little more "airy" vs the occasional congestion of the Rockets. In terms of seperation/imaging, I think the Rockets are pretty decent, but the 2000J are better.
 
Personally, I tend to lean bright and find myself a little more drawn to the 2000J, but the Rockets are a great utility set that are a little more forgiving to my hodgepodge music collection.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

 

  James444, I've just finished reading your posts in this thread; very interesting and clearly written, thank you! However, nowhere(?) do you mention which AKG K3003 filters you were using while comparing these phones. Now, I would assume you've been using the "Reference filters"? However, in my book the "Reference filters" never made the K3003 shine to its full extent and capability. The impact of filter choice on the K3003 is quite dramatic and I believe I once described the "High boost" filters as "The naked truth filters" although I'm aware the general consensus was that the "reference" filters were "the best", right?

 
You're right, sorry for the confusion!

 
I've been using the "reference" filters. Personally, I'm not a fan of the K3003's "high boost" filters, because to my ears bass impact and dynamics at low volume feel a lot more realistic with the "reference" filters.
 

  I believe someone in this thread wrote that the J is somewhere between the "Reference" and the "High boost" filters of the K3003. Would you agree and would it be possible for you to elaborate a bit on this? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks!

 
I haven't tried the "high boost" filters in ages, but that comparison should be interesting. Will give it a shot as soon as I can find the time.

No problem whatsoever james444! I just felt this was very important to clarify as we are at least a few who prefer the High boost filters.
 
You're the best!!!
 

 

[audiobot]

  I haven't spent too much time listening to the Rockets, but did a quick comparison out of my laptop and JDS C5D- the 2000J (using spiraldot tips, no spacers) are significantly more sensitive than the Rockets (using small sureseals) which makes it tough to find approximately similar volumes, and I have no "audiophile memory" to speak of so please take with a metric tonne of salt-
 
I'm pretty impressed with the Rockets bass, especially considering how tiny they are,  but the 2000J come off with a little better presence to me, using some vague words I would say they sound a bit flatter/"cleaner" (or "tighter" maybe?) and dig deeper into the subs, also having some room to stretch in terms of the C5D's bass boost, wheras the Rockets are just about tapped out.
 
I find the Rockets to be warm-ish but with solid highs/detail, the 2000j have a little bit of a similarity in the mids, up to a point, but as someone else noted, once you get to the upper mids/treble the 2000J's brightness & detail kicks in- switching between the two it can seem a bit harsh, almost even peaky, but in my regular listening with the 2000J thats something I only occasionally notice (especially w/ the smaller bore Sony Hybrid tips which I use to tame occasional sibilance (not a problem with the Rockets in my experience), but also seem to attenuate or smoothe-out highs a bit). The Rockets do a pretty good job in this area, but comparatively subdued, and can occasionally sound a bit congested in the treble/highs by comparison- though on some tracks they can also sound a little more 'cohesive' (then again maybe this is just intuition placebo thing of "one driver vs hybrid multi driver"

).
 
In terms of stage/presentation, the Rockets seem to me closer/inside my head, where the 2000j sound a little further out (tips don't seem to change this with either)- though the Rockets seem to have a little extra dimension/height to the sound while the 2000J stays more within the same plane, even though it sounds a little more "airy" vs the occasional congestion of the Rockets. In terms of seperation/imaging, I think the Rockets are pretty decent, but the 2000J are better.
 
Personally, I tend to lean bright and find myself a little more drawn to the 2000J, but the Rockets are a great utility set that are a little more forgiving to my hodgepodge music collection.

Thanks a bunch mate.

 

[mochill]

I can't afford this .. If I had the money I would buy them