DUNU DN-2000J -- More Than Evolution?

[SoAmusing777]

   
I think I explained pretty clearly in the review - plus also take my personal prefs into account.  I do geenrally like something with a brighter presentation - and to me these are detailed without being peaky, or having a real glare in the top end.
 
I think the graph DUNU includes is pretty accurate to what I heard:
 
And no - the last thing I would call the DN-2000J is U shaped.
 
 
Also - it's funny how everyone is talking about Jokers comparison of the DN-2000 as though the DN-2000J is the same.  They're not the same.  IMO the 2000J is superior - by quite a bit.  Definitely more balanced.  Definitely cleaner and clearer too.

You did; don't worry. I don't really understand how to comprehend FR graphs, so that's why I was asking. 
I see, well, their graph and the one Tomscy posted were different from what I could tell.
Yup, that's what I was trying to say, that it isn't. I thought that was funny too. Thanks brother.
 

  I just committed to join the Massdrop for these at $299.

Yup, I'm about to get it on the action now too.

 

[SoAmusing777]

Hey, guys, where can I buy those Sony hybrid eartips? The ones with both silicone and foam?

 

[drm870]

The interesting thing about the Massdrop drop is that, judging by the comments, it looks like a lot of people are passing on these as they think it's just another version of the DN-2000 (which, of course, would make these an unusually bad value at this price if true).

 

[SoAmusing777]

  The interesting thing about the Massdrop drop is that, judging by the comments, it looks like a lot of people are passing on these as they think it's just another version of the DN-2000 (which, of course, would make these an unusually bad value at this price if true).

Ignorance man. I was the 10th person, so the price is now at $300. We hit the goal. 
Quantity: 1 (10th participant in the drop)

---

Status: Active (ends in 7 days)
 

 

[Brooko]

  Hey, guys, where can I buy those Sony hybrid eartips? The ones with both silicone and foam?

 
Japan.  I don't think they sell outside.
 
Try this link - http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B005OLXAWA/

 

[SoAmusing777]

   
Japan.  I don't think they sell outside.
 
Try this link - http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B005OLXAWA/

Kinda hard to buy when I can't log in. Hmm, there was a company that use to buy for you in instances like this... forgot the name. It's only like $6. Not sure what size, so I'd get both small and (correction) medium. 

 

[SoAmusing777]

Target hit.

 

[robm321]

   
I think I explained pretty clearly in the review - plus also take my personal prefs into account.  I do geenrally like something with a brighter presentation - and to me these are detailed without being peaky, or having a real glare in the top end.
 
I think the graph DUNU includes is pretty accurate to what I heard:
 

 
And no - the last thing I would call the DN-2000J is U shaped.
 
 
Also - it's funny how everyone is talking about Jokers comparison of the DN-2000 as though the DN-2000J is the same.  They're not the same.  IMO the 2000J is superior - by quite a bit.  Definitely more balanced.  Definitely cleaner and clearer too.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll read the review in a more detailed way when I get time. I don't think they did themselves any favors with the naming convention. It seems like my type of signature as well. I don't like glare, but I do likes strong highs.

 

[H20Fidelity]

  That's exactly what I was waiting and hoping for. I'll most definitely be getting a pair after these impressions! Thank you very much H20Fidelity (I believe I've mentioned it before but I seem to hear things the way you do) When you write that "the resolution sounds higher and its slightly brighter" I take it you mean that the J is more resolving, no? Of the TOTL phones I've had, or that I consider TOTL phones anyway (TG334, K3003, ER-4PT, FX850, DN2000, and actually the Carbo Tenore for its outstanding tonality) I've felt that the DN-2000 has been the most resolving. By resolving I don't mean detailed - the most detailed (too detailed!?) phone I've heard is the FX850 - but rather its ability to project the sometimes very subtle facets that you'll hear, let's say, in the decay of a tabla. With detailed I simply mean that you'll be able to hear every detail but not necessarily with great quality. Hm... it somewhat hard to explain but hopefully it'll make sense to you. Anyway, if the 2000J is indeed more resolving than the 2000, even if just by a tiny bit, then that is truly phenomenal.

 
I know what you mean by detailed and resolution. 

 
I do feel DN2000J is more detailed than the original. But by resolution I do mean hearing that certain curve or extra little nuance in a female vocalist, for example, as she's rolling onto the next lyric etc.. Little things that otherwise are usually left hidden or un-resolved with other IEM's. I wouldn't say you're going to hear things like never before but DN2000J certainly picks up some extra missing pieces. 

 

[tomscy2000]

A few words:

• The FR I posted is uncompensated, raw --- straight out of the ear simulator. It has not been normalized for any target curve (e.g. Diffuse Field, Free Field, Independent of Field, Olive-Welti, etc.), and thus does not reflect estimations of perceptual response.
• DUNU's graph is compensated for their own target curve (don't know what it is). The two are not directly comparable.
• Why do I only include uncompensated plots here? Because raw plots only simulate sound pressure at the ear drum, taking into account for canal effects (plus head & pinna effects for headphones). They do not impose a standard of what to consider as "flat". There are many reasons for using a target such as diffuse field (or modified diffuse field) or the Harman Olive-Welti curve, and there is substantial scientific evidence supporting both, but we won't get into that here.
• How do people read uncompensated plots? Well, I could do a tutorial, but I don't have the time to do so. Tyll Hertsens has a great tutorial presentation, mostly oriented toward full-sized headphones, but is applicable to IEMs as well. Even if you're "not a numbers and graphs" kind of person, it's still important to understand these things.
• With regard to "U-shaped", "V-shaped", "Flat", etc. these characterizations are perceptually-based. Traditionally, "U-shaped" has meant boosted lows and highs, but because midrange response is relatively even, it still comes off as accurate, even if not especially prominent. This type of response is very popular, for both IEMs and headphones, because it takes into account for loudness curves. "V-shaped" to my understanding means that there's a definite midrange scoop/notch, where the midrange is purposely (or accidentally, not all companies are competent) recessed. "Flat" is very, very rare --- people like to throw around the term "neutral", but few, if any products are completely so. There is also "Downsloping", or as ClieOS likes to call it, "Warm & Sweet". A more dramatic version is "midcentric", where both sides are sloped off to emphasize the midrange. "Downsloping" is also a popular tuning. There are many variations to both "U-shaped" and "Downsloping", however. Many tunings are dramatic about it, going for an obvious signature, at the expense of bloat and harshness. Most higher-end products are more subtle about it.
• If you asked me, I'd characterize the DN-2000J as "U-shaped", just as I'd characterize the K3003 with reference and high-boost as such. Is it a dramatic U-shape? Not exactly. Its midrange is prominent, but not intimate. It definitely has boosted lows and highs. However, it does not have bass bloat and tries to minimize treble harshness.
• The DN-2000J is very clearly superior to the DN-2000, and I am not just blowing smoke. Compare the two side to side, and it's obvious which one's better. The only time anyone would prefer the DN-2000 is if the person prefers a smoothed out presentation with more recessed mids relative to the bass.
• I maintain that the DN-2000J, like I've been saying since December, is the only hybrid I've heard that sounds like the K3003, and in a good way at that.
• Keep in mind that terms like "recess" and "prominence" are relative terms. They are not absolute. EQing down the bass will result in the midrange and treble to gain prominence, and vice versa.

 

[djvkool]

   
I know what you mean by detailed and resolution. 

 
I do feel DN2000J is more detailed than the original. But by resolution I do mean hearing that certain curve or extra little nuance in a female vocalist, for example, as she's rolling onto the next lyric etc.. Little things that otherwise are usually left hidden or un-resolved with other IEM's. I wouldn't say you're going to hear things like never before but DN2000J certainly picks up some extra missing pieces. 

 
The ability to be on the bright side, yet maintaining that superb sibilance control, is absolutely amazing...

 

[H20Fidelity]

   
The ability to be on the bright side, yet maintaining that superb sibilance control, is absolutely amazing...

 
With iBasso DX50 I'm finding the treble a little strident, also detecting some vocal sibilance. It seems to be just that DAP at this stage. When I paired them up with DX90 it wasn't a concern yesterday. Surprisingly using FiiO X1 and an alternative tip of my choice they can surely impress simply from the little FiiO.
 
I'm still tinkering with the thought of what Dunu said about letting them break in for a while and will let this happen. Though I can say besides the DX50 problems I encountered when you get these 2000J right they're a real, real treat.

 

[tomscy2000]

I'm also finding that the E11K (or A3, whatever it's being called now), normally a little splashy and sometimes hot with other earphones, is doing a great job of making the DN-2000J sound composed --- treble isn't loose, and bass is solid. No harshness whatsoever. It's not the most revealing amp around, though, even though it's quite nice for the price.

 

[H20Fidelity]

When you have earphone quite revealing in itself like 2000J cheaper amp/source such as E11K or FiiO X1 isn't going to detract much from their performance. This is what I'm beginning to admire about 2000J, they sound moving straight from something cheap and simple, probably even your iPhone. For example, another IEM may really need the push from my Pono player or DX50, which is not the case for 2000J.
 
Of course, with something of higher performance they'll go further, but I'm wondering if they 'really' need it for my requirements (this is a good thing). Its probably one of the brighter hybrids I've heard released from Dunu, also quite transparent, especially leading up past the mid-range into the highs. Its going to take me some source sampling and tip rolling to find my personal sweet spot, it also leaves the question of how versatile they will be over a range of sources with several users.

 

[tomscy2000]

  I might jump on the Massdrop for the DN-2000j still. Who knows. But I'm not really looking for a U shaped FR. And it seems that the DN-2000 was brighter than the FLC8 from the comparison. That, the fact that you can tune every aspect of the sound, and I have small ears which he stated the DN-2000 might not work for.

 
What are you looking for? The 2000J will be less U-shaped than the Roxanne (at lowest bass setting), for example. It's not going to have as smooth a treble response as the ER4S (almost nothing will have that). But it does have TOTL-level performance, bar none. IMHO, the DN-2000J is best suited for low-volume listening, which is what I personally like doing. It maintains a lot of detail from top to bottom, even when I'm listening at 1% volume off my Concero HP.
 
With the huge range of tuning options, the FLC8 is certainly a nice option, though I suspect that it won't be that comfortable. Also, from Tyll's measurements, the impulse response isn't perfect, so I don't know how the bass response will be.
 
I have small ears too. The DN-2000J fits fine. I had trouble with long-term fit the first week I had it, but I realized it was chafing from the stabilizer fins, so I took them off, and they're now comfortable for hours on end. I only have a gripe with how to remove them. I tend to pull with the strain reliefs, and that's not a good thing, even if it does hold up long-term. Ergonomics and attention to detail for the K3003 are still superior, obviously.
 

   It's a completely different version. Might as well call it the DN-3000.

 
The DN-2000J, functionally, is a completely different product from the DN-2000. Different dynamic driver with different impedance characteristics, and completely different crossover design.
 
They did want to rename it, but because they had the name 'DN-2000J' certified for Hi-Res Audio by the Japan Audio Society, they didn't want to spend the extra money and get it re-certified for a different name, only to not use the 2000J name at all.
 
I suspect the next model will be similar to the 2000J (similar technical enhancements), but with removable cables. That's what DUNU seem to be concentrating on these days for R&D. I'm assuming they'll call it the DN-3000. Who knows.