[scompton]

My AKGs don't sound overly bright and sound very good stock. I've never heard the K701/K702, if that's what AKG you're talking about.

 

[cantsleep]

well, if the cable is 10ft, with single entry beyers, one side is going to be 10 and the other side is going to be about 12ft, going left to right. slight difference but might be nothing noticeable to human ears.

if the cable is only 1m or 3ft, it might be a little bit difference. although difference is still 2ft, 3 to 5 might be somewhat different from 10 to 12.

hear it for yourself. if single entry serves you well and you are comfortable with it, why not single entry..

also, i see that, also in my experience, a lot of single entry headphones suffer from imbalance more so than dual entry headphones. it can be because of the configuration or not..

 

[mbd2884]

I think too many people have very imaginative minds that dictate what they want to hear, not what they actually hear.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think too many people have very imaginative minds that dictate what they want to hear, not what they actually hear.

I agree. I'll restate my previous post. If you believe you can hear a one millisecond phase shift, that requires one cable to be 300 meters longer than the other. A one meter difference imparts a phase shift of .000000003 or 3e-9, or one nanosecond. I find it very hard to believe anyone can hear that difference.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, if the cable is 10ft, with single entry beyers, one side is going to be 10 and the other side is going to be about 12ft, going left to right. slight difference but might be nothing noticeable to human ears. [...] in my experience, a lot of single entry headphones suffer from imbalance more so than dual entry headphones. it can be because of the configuration or not..

yeah OK, maybe there's 1.5ft from L to R, and yes the cable is 10ft.....but considering electricity goes at the speed of light, does it even matter?

what do you mean "imbalance"? FR between the 2 drivers? phase correlation? net mass?

@mbd2884: I agree, you can hear what you "want" to hear(AMAGAD it's so much better, I actually didn't get conned w/ that $300 cryo cable after all

)

but well OFC w/ a high crystal count/thick gauge/too many strands will obviously sound worse than thin wire w/ less crystals and thinner gauge.

I've tried to document myself quite a bit on recabling lately, and the reason why they use high purity uber-thin wire to connect to the drivers is because of the skin effect...and it's apparently a good idea to have a thinner wire for the ground.

in another post you were talking about cheap cryo wire and furutech, do you have amy links to these low prices please

BTW, I've found this post very instructive :
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3160410-post13.html

Denon is using 7N-OFC for their D serie, but AT is using 8N-OFC for their voice coils : http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...f&q=8n-ofc&lr=

 

[royalcrown]

I have a single-entry cable and a dual-entry cable. I prefer the former (SQ aside) infinitely more than the latter - it's so much easier to use, and the cable has that much less of a chance to get tangled.

One advantage (not on the phones I'm discussing) that dual-entry would have over single-entry headphones is that if the cable breaks, it's that much easier to replace - then again, didn't some manufacturer come out with a single-entry headphone pair that terminated in a jack?

Yeah, there's pretty much no advantage to having dual-entry headphones except if the cable is very heavy (as is the case with the HD280, but it never really bothered me personally).

 

[cantsleep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif yeah OK, maybe there's 1.5ft from L to R, and yes the cable is 10ft.....but considering electricity goes at the speed of light, does it even matter?

why speed of light?

when you prepare for something like concert, when it is too far apart one side to the other side, like front and back, if it isnt orderly configured, cables and so on, people in the back will only hear dull bassy music whereas people in front would actually hear good sound. and when it is hot, there would be more delays of sound than when it is cold. if the sound is traveling at a speed of light, it would be problematic as so. but it might be that the sound does not travel at a speed of light but speed of something else.

that was what ive told by sound engineering people, those do studio recordings and conduct concerts for living.

as for the channel imbalance, im talking about one side being slightly louder than the other. i had several pairs, that are single entry, that had those issues. i dont mean that all dual entry headphones are free from imbalance issue. but it seems that single entry headphones suffer from that more so than duals.

 

[scompton]

Are you saying the sound is effected if they don't arrange the cables correctly or the speakers correctly? I find it hard to believe that arrangements of cables would effect it unless it has to do with interference. Speakers are a different matter.

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep /img/forum/go_quote.gif why speed of light? when you prepare for something like concert, when it is too far apart one side to the other side, like front and back, if it isnt orderly configured, cables and so on, people in the back will only hear dull bassy music whereas people in front would actually hear good sound. and when it is hot, there would be more delays of sound than when it is cold. if the sound is traveling at a speed of light, it would be problematic as so. but it might be that the sound does not travel at a speed of light but speed of something else. that was what ive told by sound engineering people, those do studio recordings and conduct concerts for living.

theyre talking about the speed of the electric signal on the wire BEFORE it goes to the driver. of course the sound itself doesnt travel that fast - in fact, it travels at the speed of sound

double or single entry has no effect on the distance of the drivers to your ears thus your entire analogy to setting up Public Address is flawed. ask your engineering buddies if the length of the cable affects phase to any measurable (let alone audible) degree, and there is no doubt theyll tell you "no."

now, whether the distance of a cable has an audible effect based on increased resistance, then there is some fact to this. however, this is meaningless in headphones. only in 50+ foot home theater runs do you really need to worry about increasing from 12 to 10 gauge wiring.

granted, the signal is NOT moving through the copper at the speed of light - very slightly slower

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep /img/forum/go_quote.gif as for the channel imbalance, im talking about one side being slightly louder than the other. i had several pairs, that are single entry, that had those issues. i dont mean that all dual entry headphones are free from imbalance issue. but it seems that single entry headphones suffer from that more so than duals.

thats VERY strange. technically, a single-entry is identical to a dual-entry, except the y-split is internal to whichever cup the wire enters.

id imagine you might have an ear issue, or an unfortunately impressionable imagination

 

[trains are bad]

Quote:

If you believe you can hear a one millisecond phase shift, that requires one cable to be 300 meters longer than the other.

You are correct, of course, but I would like to add that humans are pretty much deaf to phase anyway. If they weren't, pretty much all sound transducers and speaker designs would not work, because they all introduce massive amounts of phase error compared to the original soundwaves. That speakers work at all is an amazing testament to the processing power of our brains.

 

[cantsleep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif theyre talking about the speed of the electric signal on the wire BEFORE it goes to the driver. of course the sound itself doesnt travel that fast - in fact, it travels at the speed of sound double or single entry has no effect on the distance of the drivers to your ears thus your entire analogy to setting up Public Address is flawed. ask your engineering buddies if the length of the cable affects phase to any measurable (let alone audible) degree, and there is no doubt theyll tell you "no." now, whether the distance of a cable has an audible effect based on increased resistance, then there is some fact to this. however, this is meaningless in headphones. only in 50+ foot home theater runs do you really need to worry about increasing from 12 to 10 gauge wiring. granted, the signal is NOT moving through the copper at the speed of light - very slightly slower thats VERY strange. technically, a single-entry is identical to a dual-entry, except the y-split is internal to whichever cup the wire enters. id imagine you might have an ear issue, or an unfortunately impressionable imagination

they say every 1m, there would be a delay of 0.001 seconds or something. its been a while so i forgot how much it was. he wrote a textbook on sound engineering and had a studio of his own.. so i gave some credit to his saying..

whenever i get a headphone that has balance issue, i return. and they, its own manufacturers, replace or repair em and send back to me. as for my ears, i guess it doesnt get better as i get older but still functioning alright for now.

 

[smeggy]

I like single entry myself, less fussy and less hookups. I always find AKGs funny, they have the wire going into the cup and from there, soldered to the headband loops and then wire into the other cup. I guess they don't find spring steel to be any kind of impediment to the SQ.

People are way too anal about this stuff. Hardwiring, huge super expensive cables, premium plugs etc. All connected to some crappy nickel plated spring steel socket contacts with very little actual contact area.

I sometimes wonder if people are purposely myopic about the stuff they can't see. As with all things, it's only as strong as the weakest link and that link tends to be what you plug phones into.

Given all this I doubt an extra 10-12" of single sided entry really makes any difference at all.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep /img/forum/go_quote.gif for the channel imbalance, im talking about one side being slightly louder than the other. i had several pairs, that are single entry, that had those issues. i dont mean that all dual entry headphones are free from imbalance issue. but it seems that single entry headphones suffer from that more so than duals.

well my former 770Pro did have this problem....maybe coz I recabled it?!
my 770 Premium does not....from what I understand, volume imbalance can be due to :
-poor cable design
-EMI
-poor drivers matching

single entry can/should definitely have the same volume on both sides...my cd1k(same drivers as cd3k) definitely did not have this problem either.

 

[nullstring]

IDK, I think I like the double entry cable better.

I don't really have a good reason why though..

 

[progo]

single entry...what's the point?
Dual entry is more usable, more secure and looks cooler. In my opinion.
PS. the only good AKG is K1000 because it's dual-entried.