[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ While I don't agree with everything, I agree on the fact that all three are interesting and high-class headphones. I can't find my HD 650's bass too strong, it just lacks a bit low bass, and the (mid-)treble could use some subtle boost to make it sound livelier. On the other hand, we don't want all headphones to sound the same, do we? Moreover I find the HD 650 to have better resolution than the (former) DT 880, despite the more conservative treble. And (this in contrast to sacd lover): to my ears the HD 600 has the somewhat airier treble and a slightly more natural presentation/sonic balance, but the HD 650 has the much higher resolution. I heard this in different systems (and with different cables). I also liked the DT 880 (slightly) better than the HD 600. But I agree with sacd lover that the DT 880 lacked coherence because of its outstanding treble -- which I absolutely liked in some way, but it was a bit too much. Additionally I found the bass to sound a bit compressed, lacking dynamics and «breath», despite the excellent definition and extension. So overall the K 701 has become my favorite. After full break-in (~360 hours) it's not much brighter than the HD 650 anymore, has lost the last bit of midrange-unrefinedness and offers a really strong and deep bass on a comparable (quantity) level, with even higher definition and greater extension. High definition is also the keyword for the whole frequency spectrum, and together with the quite even frequency response and the impressive soundstage this results in the most natural presentation of the trio -- to my ears. This sounds intresting. Of course I can't justify the DT 880 so soon after the K 701, so my interest is of a rather theoretical kind. Do you think it has the more «breathing» bass than the old one? It seemd to sound compressed to my ears, like the rear of the earcups wasn't open enough. .

Excellent post Jazz - thanks much. My preference for either the 600 or 650 probably depends on one item: resolving power. Like you, I feel the 650 to have greater resolving power than the 880 (more detail at any frequency, although 880 has more apparent highs). However I also feel the 880 has enough for my liking... right up there with the best... but not quite a 701 or 650. In other words, it meets my threshold for this factor and I don't have to think about it. To compare: I had the HD595s for a while and although I liked the tonal balance, I just couldn't listen to them because I felt they fell far short of these other phones in refinement and clarity. So my question: Is the HD600 more or less resolving than the DT880? If it's similar, I may enjoy it more than the 650 because of tonal balance.

Thanks again Jazz

 

[rogue]

Great review txa. I agree 100% with your statements regarding the AKG's somewhat harsher mid and upper frequency response, especially with low burn-in hours. My K701's currently have <35 hours on them, and they still sound a bit congested and fatiguing to me (especially when compared to the HD650's). The jury's still out for me whether I prefer them over the 650's, but if they do not substantially smoothen out over time, then this is doubtful.

 

[Andrea]

I'm interested in the new DT880.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The slightly bright presentation doesnt really bother me that much. What gets to me is the inconsistency in the headphones resolution. The treble just stands out to much and seems to dominate the music.

Not to my ears/with my gear (2003 DT880s). I wonder what you were using (amp/source) and if this stuff was tuned for Senns? Also, how much burn-in did you give the headphones before passing this judgment?

It will be nice if the newer DT880s are less bright, as that means less harping on the treble like so many people do when they mention the DT880. It's as bad as the talk about the Sennheiser veil, and far outweighs any talk about the many strengths of the headphone.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Not to my ears/with my gear (2003 DT880s). I wonder what you were using (amp/source) and if this stuff was tuned for Senns? Also, how much burn-in did you give the headphones before passing this judgment? It will be nice if the newer DT880s are less bright, as that means less harping on the treble like so many people do when they mention the DT880. It's as bad as the talk about the Sennheiser veil, and far outweighs any talk about the many strengths of the headphone.

Pretty much the same thing I am using now .... Headamp for SS/ Singlepower for tubes. I didnt have the senns when I originally had the 880's. I had grados and sony cd3000's. Dont give me the burn in crap fewtch .... how long did you burn in the AKG 240s or that oehlbach cable before you gave up on them? If you are allowed to dislike something after a few hours or days everyone else is too, but that doesnt even apply here.

Seriously,

I had the 880's for nearly a year and basically replaced them with the 650. By the way .... I say the headphone has nearly perfect linearity except for the treble and you say no one mentions the 880's strengths .... you arent paying attention.

If there were no 600/650 or 701 .... I would still probably have the 880's.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover Dont give me the burn in crap fewtch .... how long did you burn in the AKG 240s or that oehlbach cable before you gave up on them?

Different situation IMO... those were cheap headphones with a very obvious and serious issue (bass walking all over the midrange)... don't tell me you believe the DT880s should be selling at $60 like the K240S. As for the Oehlbach, I don't believe in cable burn in... ridiculous notion.

Quote:

Seriously, I had the 880's for nearly a year and basically replaced them with the 650. By the way .... I say the headphone has nearly perfect linearity except for the treble and you say no one mentions the 880's strengths .... you arent paying attention. If there were no 600/650 or 701 .... I would still probably have the 880's.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with disliking the DT880 (or preferring other headphones), I just asked if you gave them sufficient burn in and were using them with gear that wasn't tweaked for Senns. Thanks for answering the question, but I don't know why you seemingly took offense to my asking. I'm always so surprised that people are bothered by the (to my ears) very minor treble emphasis of the DT880... it's a continual shock to me, and so I feel compelled to verify it. Fair enough?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

So far all comments appear to be single-end 650s to SE 701s. If anyone has heard either can in balanced mode I'd love to know your thoughs on how running balanced would compare to the SE findings???

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa Is the HD600 more or less resolving than the DT880? If it's similar, I may enjoy it more than the 650 because of tonal balance.

The DT 880's higher resolution and clarity was the main reason for my preference against the HD 600, although it wasn't actually a clear preference, since I also appreciated the HD 600's greater coherence. So to my ears the order of resolving capacity was: HD 650 > DT 880 > HD 600.
.

 

[luukas]

I hate this thread, I really do. Why must you people tell me the DT880s are great at lower volume levels and über-comfy to boot. I can only hope they'll sound like crud with my system when I go out and loan a pair for home auditioning...

 

[jl123]

sigh....I must resist.... I'm sure I'll get around to buying the remaining dt880s and k701s

 

[luukas]

Bwhaha! I have them now!


...for today, that is.

And I like what I'm hearing, sadly.

edit:

Not that anyone cares, but! I'll be sticking with the HD595s. While the Beyers are more detailed, airy, resolving and - in a way - natural sounding, I don't find myself enjoying their distant presentation. Increasing the volume would help with that, but that's one compromise I'll never make.

 

[txa]

Hello fellow enthusiasts!

It's been a while since I last posted - more so since I had initiated this 3-way comparison thread. I'm finally ready to document the results of my quest, now that my K701 has finally settled into its long-term sound.

First, let me thank all the current 701 owners that encouraged me to stay with it and continue the burn-in process. It has been more than well worth the wait - so much so that I'm still shaking my head in amazement as to the transformation.

My 701s only have 140 or so hours on them. Some have noted that they continue to improve through the 300+ hr range. Mine are so good right now that I'm not sure how that is possible, but any improvement will surely add to what I feel has been a great purchase!

When I last posted, I was at the point where the 701 was on the cusp of being my most enjoyable phone... and being sold.

Brutal! Normally, things aren't so black and white. The sonic adjustment required to make it move in either direction is very subtle - enough to be perceived as absurd by non-enthusiasts.

But for me, and I imagine many here on head-fi, the subtleties are what it's all about.

In the case of the K701, it had to do with what I perceived as some hardness in the presence region (2k-4k or so) that was making it difficult for me to relax and just enjoy them. Though I could see the potential of the phone, and admired it's most neutral presentation across the board, I felt it was pushing its sound on me. If it continued to do so, I just couldn't live with it when the 650 and 880 exist. If it did, it would be my preferred phone.

For those who don't want to read all of the details, here is the conclusion:
The 701 is now my current reference phone of choice. I'm in agreement with all of the others who are singing its praises and have voted it best phone for under $500.

Hopefully I have written enough material for you to understand that I'm not a fan-boy and that I have an allegiance to good sound, not to a make, model, or anything else other than what brings pleasure to the ears.

Bought Sennheiser HD595 - sold it.
Bought DT880 - kept it.
Bought AGK K501 - sold it.
Bought HD650 - kept it.
Bought Sony SA5K - sold it.

What remains are two great phones: BeyerDynamic DT880 and Senheiser HD650.

The K701 investigation was initiated to determine if this phone could split the difference of these latter two, and through its synergy, outperform them in the whole.

For me, it does just this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me describe its transformation and give some additional comparisons to the DT880 and HD650.

Transformation
----------------------
Somewhere around the 110-130 hour mark is when the big changes took place. The 3 biggies are:

- Presence region became more relaxed, spacious and inviting; currently, the hardness is completely gone; I'm actually amazed - I was very skeptical of this point.
- Overall detail improved, more space between the notes (and it was already just as good as HD650 here)
- Bass ripened; it has become more full and enveloping, yet still percussive and extremely neutral

In fact, listening to the Headroom Bithead, the bass improved to the point that I thought I may have accidentally switched the processing circuit on (which adds more bass and overall warmth) but was puzzled because I hadn't noticed the usual drop in detail. Nope, just the phones... simply outstanding!

Since the 110-130 hour mark, the above three improvements have just gotten more and more refined. I think in addition to the drivers, the breaking-in of the ear pads has helped, as they have me a little closer to the drivers. (I really believe a Beyer-like pad on this phone would be ideal - both in terms of sonics and comfort.) In any case, I just absolutely love this phone. There - how's that for fan-boyism?

Comparisons
--------------------
I can understand how many think the K701 is more DT880 than HD650.
I can equally understand how some think the K701 is more HD650 than DT880.

It splits the difference extremely well and it is really difficult to say in absolute terms that it is more this than that - so hopefully I can add some observations that get to the root of it.

HD650
The K701 is more HD650 in terms of its micro-level details and its intimate mid-range. I have always found the HD650 to be a better revolver of detail than the DT880 (which accentuates high-frequency detail), and the K701 is more HD650 in this regard. Better, actually, in my opinion.

Also - although I find the overall balance of the HD650 too warm for most of my music, I do enjoy it's midrange across the board. I actually prefer the DT880 more neutral bottom-end and even-handedness for much of my music, but always thinking "Why couldn't the HD650 midrange come along for the ride on this?"

With the 701, it does.

However, the 701 mid-range is not 650 mid-range. For Kef and B&W listeners, the K701 is more classic Kef, the HD650, more classic B&W.

Let me phrase both in positive and negative light:
Positive: HD650 midrange is warm and 3D. Negative: HD650 midrange is chesty and too full.
Positive: K701 midrange is light on its feet, intimate, and articulate. Negative: K701 midrange is thinner and lacks weight.

I fall into the positive camp on both phones, but I definitely prefer the K701!

DT880
The K701 is more DT880 in terms of its macro sonic presentation and frequency balance. It is very airy, detailed, and conveys the same sense of space and openness - only without the exaggerated top-end.
Its bass is an ideal mix of 880 and 650. It's bass balance and quantity is much like the DT880. It's bass articulation and percussiveness is like the HD650. (It still doesn't have the 'hit' of the SA5k, but it is closer and ‘envelopes’ you more - which I think is a result of it integrating into the midrange better.)

Thanks for reading this long thread and what feels like an even longer post - and good luck on your quest!