[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea You say "very" ? For me the HD650 sounds just slightly warm (often I wish it was more so, and I'm not one who fancies colorations!), fairly intimate (sometimes I'd wish for more!), and just as full as my ears need to feel the vocals and instruments well grounded (less= too little). You see, someone might not find the K701 so well balanced.

Yes - it might be that "very" is too strong a word. I'll try to be more objective in my descriptions.

Out of the phones I have owned - which includes HD595, K501, SA5000, DT880, HD650, K701, Ety ER4P + S, the HD650 is the warmest of the bunch. Focusing on midbass to lower midrange to midrange, based on some memory now, I haven't heard a few in a while, I'd rank them like this, from warm to cool (the dots between indicate perceived distance):

HD650
.
.
.
HD595?

K701 (richer mids than DT880, but can appear cool with more forward upper-midrange at times )

K501? (harder-hitting as volume, but in this company, still 'fairly' warm mids with light bass)

DT880 / ER4P
.
ER4S/ SA5000

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch It's probably relative, because it's hard to think of a more UNcomfortable headphone (to me) than HD580 and HD600... and by extension HD650. It's that infamous vice grip, which I guess doesn't affect some people. But if it affects you, it will really affect... I managed to overlook it when the HD580 and HD600 were my only cans, but more than anything else it will now prevent me from getting a pair of Senns again. After using DT880 awhile, it really felt like the blood was draining out of my head! This was after three years of use, and the headband already had time to stretch... still very unpleasant to me.

Yes - that's basically it - the vice grip is what makes them uncomfortable for me. I don't mind their shape, I actually like the headband the best (space at top to give cushion without compression), and the earpads are darn comfy. But that grip! I get quite an "ahhh...." factor when taking them off and putting on the 880.

701 is just all-around comfortable and to me and has that no-fuss adjustable headband.

My ideal (we all them, all different), would be: 701 mechanism, Senn padded, contoured headband in the mechanism with Beyer pads and pad velour.

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMooN Nooooooo !!! I'm So Confused , Grateful however for the continued reports txa Taking into account the Slightly 'Warm' , Slightly Relaxed Dynamics of the Nu-Vista M3 system, My Logic thus far :~ . DT880's ~ pretty safe bet all-round tho perhaps not sending me into another sound dimension. HD650's ~ Excellent at covering most of the bases however might necessitate the additional expense of Cardas or similar cables in order to really get the best out of the M3 K701 ~ Jury still out ~ However as Burn-In times continue to clock up they have the potential to mature into a superb set of headphones that might well prove to be the best all round foil for the Nu-Vista . Please feel free to comment on my ramblings or recommend a change of Med's

I'd say this is a pretty good summary. However, I think all phones have the ability to "send us to another dimension", or in my own words, provide that magical experience that makes us say to ourselves "Yes! Now this is why I've shelled out the bucks for these phones and gear..."

By the way, it seems (due to my musical tastes, more than anything), that I've reached that state most with DT880.

I have also reached it somewhat with 650 (Joyce Cooling good example) and 701 as well. 701 are sitting on the edge of being able to recreate that experience more or less than the others depending on how they settle in...

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoochile Well, if you like them now, you're going to love them later. In my rig, these were borderline nasty sounding in the upper regions until they got something like 280-320 hours on them. I kept thinking: this has to calm down at some point... but it didn't. Finally, they did indeed settle down; and wow, what a great set of cans. The highs are gorgeous now. I still cannot justify offing my 650s, as many of the recordings I enjoy seem to warrant them, but with material that was revealing a preponderance of bass*, the 701s are amazing. *Note that my 650s have the equinox cable, so are more balanced sounding than they were when stock. Otherwise, most material was overwhelming! In hindsight, if I had bone-stock 650s and 701s to choose from, I'd have probably gone with the 701s. The equinox levels the playing field quite a bit... but at what cost. Hindsight- the root of all evil.

THAT is what I've been wanting to hear! I am dfinitely going to let them run their course as well as add some active break-in periods.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMooN Nooooooo !!! I'm So Confused , Grateful however for the continued reports txa Taking into account the Slightly 'Warm' , Slightly Relaxed Dynamics of the Nu-Vista M3 system, My Logic thus far :~ . DT880's ~ pretty safe bet all-round tho perhaps not sending me into another sound dimension. HD650's ~ Excellent at covering most of the bases however might necessitate the additional expense of Cardas or similar cables in order to really get the best out of the M3 K701 ~ Jury still out ~ However as Burn-In times continue to clock up they have the potential to mature into a superb set of headphones that might well prove to be the best all round foil for the Nu-Vista . Please feel free to comment on my ramblings or recommend a change of Med's

The 701 IS a superb set of headphones in very short order. The jury has rendered a verdict, in my case, and the 701 has won.

I have a pair of 701's I bought used with surely 300+ hours on them now. The new pairs that just arrived sounded a little rough the first 6 hours I had them burning in. I listened to a new pair late last night (after another 2-3 hours) and the difference, if any, is now quite small.

The DT880's unnaturally detailed and brightish treble, and the senn 650's overly warm bass/ lower mids, definitely seemed flawed in comparison to the 701 .... atleast to me. If you like an elevated treble and the extra detail such a frequency response nets you .... the 880 would likely be preferred. The same with the 650 if you need that extra richness and body. But I found once I spent time with the 701 and then went back to the others the flaws of the 880 and 650 are to distracting.

I have the 600-cardas/650- Zu/dt880 all here right now and overall the 701 is the headphone that sounds the most natural and right.

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The 701 IS a superb set of headphones in very short order. The jury has rendered a verdict, in my case, and the 701 has won. I have a pair of 701's I bought used with surely 300+ hours on them now. The new pairs that just arrived sounded a little rough the first 6 hours I had them burning in. I listened to a new pair late last night (after another 2-3 hours) and the difference, if any, is now quite small. The DT880's unnaturally detailed and brightish treble, and the senn 650's overly warm bass/ lower mids, definitely seemed flawed in comparison to the 701 .... atleast to me. If you like an elevated treble and the extra detail such a frequency response nets you .... the 880 would likely be preferred. The same with the 650 if you need that extra richness and body. But I found once I spent time with the 701 and then went back to the others the flaws of the 880 and 650 are to distracting. I have the 600-cardas/650- Zu/dt880 all here right now and overall the 701 is the headphone that sounds the most natural and right.

Hey SACD player:

That is great news! I'm getting that feeling as well, now if only things can soften up a little with time...

Which phone would be 2nd up for you, the 600? Could you shed a little more light on 600 with respect to the other phones - I have not yet heard it and am pretty curious.

Thank you!

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Great thread Txa! I spent yesterday playing around with these three cans and find myself nodding in agreement with your posts. I've assumed you are using the new 880s? I really never warmed much to the old 880, but find myself really liking the new ones. At this point I think the only sane thing to do for a headphone enthusiast is to have all three (880 710 650) in their quiver of cans. (Sorry about your wallet.)

I would like to draw attention to your comment about the 880 sounding great at low volumes: I started thinking that yesterday and wondered if anyone else would have that opinion. I too think they sound great at low volumes and would say that it's the first time I've ever experienced that in a pair of cans. I listen at fairly low volumes most of the time and feel that the 880 is going to be indespensable with such listening.

It's a great time to be a headphone geek when there are three so marvelously different and satisfying headphones populating the top of the heap!

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa Hey SACD player: That is great news! I'm getting that feeling as well, now if only things can soften up a little with time... Which phone would be 2nd up for you, the 600? Could you shed a little more light on 600 with respect to the other phones - I have not yet heard it and am pretty curious. Thank you!

The 600 is very much like the 650 in respect to the overall sound. But the 600 is better balanced. The treble has more air and sparkle and the bass is less heavy. The 600 is still a warm, forgiving headphone .... but not overly so vs the 650 ... IMO. The 650 sounds to thick, dark and dulled in comparison for my tastes. I always find myself preferring the 600 by a good margin listening to both on the usual single ended amps.

When I put the 600/ cardas up against the 701 I again hear that extra warmth and a slight lack of treble air and spaciousness with the 600. On poorly recorded material the 600 softens the sound some where the 701 is more revealing. But on most recordings the more linear and extended highs and the less oppressive lows make the 701 sound the most natural. The 701 just sounds right to me.

I also find the dt880 is actually less flawed than the 600/650 overall. The 880's problems all seem centered in the treble. The 880 is so linear and smooth up until you hit the treble. Unfortunatley, once you get there the flaw is much more evident and bothersome .... probably because the headphone is so linear everywhere else. The treble anomolies make the 880's TREBLE sound to hyper detailed and the treble doesnt mesh with the rest of the headphones presentation. If the 880 was linear throught the treble I would love the headphone. As it is ... the 880's get to me faster than any headphone I have used with the possible exception of the sony cd3000. I do have the old 880's and not the new ones, by the way.

Speaking to comfort I think I like the 701 slightly better, although I believe the 880 is equally comfortable. The 701 fits my head extremely well.

 

[Solude]

Care to compare the 05 Beyer 880 and 06 Beyer 880 some more Tyll?

 

[TheMooN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I have the 600-cardas/650- Zu/dt880 all here right now and overall the 701 is the headphone that sounds the most natural and right.

Thank you for helping me toward the light sacd lover , Your experience with the ' Cable Modded ' Senn's in comparison with the AKG proving particularly enlightening .

I feel that given my personal combination of Kit and Content a set of K701's should suit me just fine .

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I do have the old 880's and not the new ones, by the way.

I am in agreement with your comments about the old 880: highs not meshing with the rest of the sound. But, while the new ones are basically as bright, the coherance and integration is significantly better, IMHO. I think it's terribly important to be sure to specify which 880 we're using in our comparisons because I think the overall impression of the new ones is significantly better than the old.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens I am in agreement with your comments about the old 880: highs not meshing with the rest of the sound. But, while the new ones are basically as bright, the coherance and integration is significantly better, IMHO. I think it's terribly important to be sure to specify which 880 we're using in our comparisons because I think the overall impression of the new ones is significantly better than the old.

The slightly bright presentation doesnt really bother me that much. What gets to me is the inconsistency in the headphones resolution. The treble just stands out to much and seems to dominate the music. The senns do the same thing but in the bass. If the new 880's avoid that I can see the 880 being a VERY good listen.

You asked about listening levels and I always listened to the 880 at lower volumes. The highs are more balanced and less intrusive at lower levels, but unfortunately, the dynamics and bass suffer at the lower volume.

Some turn up the senns to get more brightness and I cant deal with that either. Continuing with listening level..... I like the 701's listening level about the same as the 880; maybe 1db lower for the 880. I prefer both the 701 and 880 at a lower listening level than the 600/ 650 because the clarity and resolution are better. Again, some turn up the volume seeking more bass impact with the 701; so I guess its mostly a preferance issue. I personally think the 701's bass is adequate even at lower volumes.

 

[JaZZ]

While I don't agree with everything, I agree on the fact that all three are interesting and high-class headphones.

I can't find my HD 650's bass too strong, it just lacks a bit low bass, and the (mid-)treble could use some subtle boost to make it sound livelier. On the other hand, we don't want all headphones to sound the same, do we?

Moreover I find the HD 650 to have better resolution than the (former) DT 880, despite the more conservative treble. And (this in contrast to sacd lover): to my ears the HD 600 has the somewhat airier treble and a slightly more natural presentation/sonic balance, but the HD 650 has the much higher resolution. I heard this in different systems (and with different cables).

I also liked the DT 880 (slightly) better than the HD 600. But I agree with sacd lover that the DT 880 lacked coherence because of its outstanding treble -- which I absolutely liked in some way, but it was a bit too much. Additionally I found the bass to sound a bit compressed, lacking dynamics and «breath», despite the excellent definition and extension.

So overall the K 701 has become my favorite. After full break-in (~360 hours) it's not much brighter than the HD 650 anymore, has lost the last bit of midrange-unrefinedness and offers a really strong and deep bass on a comparable (quantity) level, with even higher definition and greater extension. High definition is also the keyword for the whole frequency spectrum, and together with the quite even frequency response and the impressive soundstage this results in the most natural presentation of the trio -- to my ears.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens ...while the new ones are basically as bright, the coherence and integration is significantly better, IMHO. I think it's terribly important to be sure to specify which 880 we're using in our comparisons because I think the overall impression of the new ones is significantly better than the old.

This sounds intresting. Of course I can't justify the DT 880 so soon after the K 701, so my interest is of a rather theoretical kind. Do you think it has the more «breathing» bass than the old one? It seemd to sound compressed to my ears, like the rear of the earcups wasn't open enough.
.

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens Great thread Txa! I spent yesterday playing around with these three cans and find myself nodding in agreement with your posts. I've assumed you are using the new 880s? I really never warmed much to the old 880, but find myself really liking the new ones. At this point I think the only sane thing to do for a headphone enthusiast is to have all three (880 710 650) in their quiver of cans. (Sorry about your wallet.) I would like to draw attention to your comment about the 880 sounding great at low volumes: I started thinking that yesterday and wondered if anyone else would have that opinion. I too think they sound great at low volumes and would say that it's the first time I've ever experienced that in a pair of cans. I listen at fairly low volumes most of the time and feel that the 880 is going to be indespensable with such listening. It's a great time to be a headphone geek when there are three so marvelously different and satisfying headphones populating the top of the heap!

Thanks Tyll!

I believe I have the OLD 880s - flat aluminum enclosures rather than rounded, and a straight cable. Having enjoyed this model as much as I have, I also concur that the treble is exaggerated a bit and can be both a pro and a con depending on music genre - neither being entirely accurate or convincing. With an improvement in this area, I would think the new 880 is one hell of a phone!

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I also find the dt880 is actually less flawed than the 600/650 overall. The 880's problems all seem centered in the treble. The 880 is so linear and smooth up until you hit the treble. Unfortunatley, once you get there the flaw is much more evident and bothersome .... probably because the headphone is so linear everywhere else. The treble anomolies make the 880's TREBLE sound to hyper detailed and the treble doesnt mesh with the rest of the headphones presentation. If the 880 was linear throught the treble I would love the headphone.

Perfectly described! Depending on who you are and what types of music you listen to, one or the other is going to be the greater flaw - which is why I guess I own both the 880 and 650. The 880's brighter character is nice at lower volumes, and less intrusive, if in fact, somewhat delightful on some jazz and trios. With rock or other music with lots of high-frequency content, the 880s are too much and the Senns take over.

I've been looking to the 701 as the can with the lowest flaw-factor, and barring the harder delivery, I see the potential for it to be just that!

Thanks much for the post on the 600 vs the 650 - although I haven't heard it , it sounds like I may enjoy it more than the 650.