[donprime]

I have been using ATH-M40S. I pretty much decided to upgrade the DT 990 600 Ohm version. I have a Audio DJ 4 from Native Instruments, which i use for my sound card. It has a headphone output with a volume control. Works great with my ATH-M40 because the ohms are low "60 ohms". Is the Audio 4 DJ good enough to get good volume output for the DT 990 600 ohm version ? Or should i get a headphone amp like Fiio E9 or E11?

 

[donprime]

I found the specs to the Headphone output , Im not very tech savy. Does this fit the bill to power the DT 990 600hm version?
 
Headphone Output
Load Impedance 16 Ohms – 600 Ohms
Maximum Output Level (100 Ohm load) 1,55 V RMS (load 100Ohm), 3,1V RMS (no load)
SNR (weighted) 93 dBu
THD+N (100 Ohms) 0,016%
Frequency Response +/- 1 dBu 10 Hz-40 kHz
 
 
 

 

[TMRaven]

An iPod is good enough to get good volume out of a 600Ω beyer.  Volume won't be an issue here.  Impedance matching for getting the DT990's native sound signature might matter.  Higher amount of headroom for high dynamic range songs might matter too.

 

[donprime]

I only listen to vinyl recorded 24/96hz and compressed flac. and cds converted to flac. So i should be fine? or just get a amp to be sure?

 

[Neogeo333]

i recommend using a separate amp.  theres plenty in the FS forum.  Using an under powered amp to move these cans is a shame, it doesnt do it justice.  I know because i used the Asus xonar st with the 990 and it wasnt enough.  Later switch to BH Crack tube amp and it was close to heave until my Senn HD650 arrived.  Now i have Creative Titanium HD to Crack to 990. 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

I know because i used the Asus xonar st with the 990 and it wasnt enough. 

The Essence ST and STX are more than powerful enough for any realistic volume. Your problem was less with power and more with sound signature, if we ignore psychology.

 

[donprime]

So what would be best option for headphone amp with good sound signature?  I want to still keep my current sound card audio 4 dj. I use traktor , and record my vinyl with it to audacity. Would AH-D2000 be a better option?

 

[TMRaven]

People usually run otl tube amps with beyers.  Depending on the driver tubes, it'll rolloff and tame the infamous beyer treble a bit, plus otls have voltage for days, so you'll have plenty of headroom-- way more than you need.  That doesn't mean it'll make the beyers one bit flat and neutral though.
 
 

 

[donprime]

Well my Audio 4 DJ  is a 24/96k DAC. I just need a Headphone Amp for the full Potential of the DT990 Or D2000's right? Or should I just buy a new DAC like Essence SXT. Reason why i want to keep my Audio 4 DJ. Its the sound card for Traktor Scratch, and I record my vinyls into audacity without a mixer, no hiss is godly

 

[TMRaven]

No I think you'd be better off buying a dedicated amp.

 

[khaine1711]

Hmmm, what happen when you don't have headroom for high dynamic song?
The sound clips or distorts or smt else? 

 
Also, how much voltage is considered "enough" for the beyer 600 ohm. Last I checked the solid state amp with most voltage swing @600 ohm is Violectric with ~20V; other solid state amp mostly range from 5-10V (if they states the voltage output that is).
 
One last thing, how do you calculate voltage an amp can put out at 600 ohm? 
 
//sorry for all those questions; I'm really into math and statistic lol.
Quote:

People usually run otl tube amps with beyers.  Depending on the driver tubes, it'll rolloff and tame the infamous beyer treble a bit, plus otls have voltage for days, so you'll have plenty of headroom-- way more than you need.  That doesn't mean it'll make the beyers one bit flat and neutral though.
 
 

 


Quote:

An iPod is good enough to get good volume out of a 600Ω beyer.  Volume won't be an issue here.  Impedance matching for getting the DT990's native sound signature might matter.  Higher amount of headroom for high dynamic range songs might matter too.

 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaine1711 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Also, how much voltage is considered "enough" for the beyer 600 ohm.

It depends on your listening habits (i.e. preferred loudness), and the material that is being listened to (classical music needs more than "loudness war" compressed pop/rock/etc. music). For a reasonable upper limit, one could consider the maximum rated power of the headphone, which is 100 mW, and translates to about 7.75 Vrms. This is a limit of what the headphone can handle without the risk of damaging the drivers, though, and it tends to sound pretty bad (high distortion mainly in the bass range, with the drivers bottoming out on the lower frequencies) well before reaching the maximum, not to mention being harmful to hearing. The FiiO E9, the Asus Xonar Essence ST/STX, and the Objective2 amplifier (to list some relatively cheap options) can all output up to about 7 Vrms, so they are not far from the maximum, and should be sufficient in theory.
From a listening volume point of view, consider that the DT880-600 (same drivers as the DT990, but differently tuned, and in different housing) needs 0.514 Vrms for 90 dB SPL (source: InnerFidelity). So, a voltage of 5.14 Vrms that the above amplifiers can output with almost 3 dB headroom left, will allow for a sound pressure of about 110 dB. The Audio DJ 4 at its maximum (no additional headroom) will reach about 104 dB. Of course these numbers can vary slightly in practice due to differences between the DT880 and DT990, and random differences between pairs of the same model.
 

 

[khaine1711]

Hmm I am a low volume listener. My dac/amp output 10 Vrms; it also lists 150mW @ 600 Ohm. Volume is very sufficient; I could not crank up the volume past 10 O'clock or it'll get to ear-damaging level.
 
However, I've read that loudness does not equal "properly driven". That makes me wonder if "properly driven" means the colouration one wishes to achieve plus sufficient volume; or just the synergy between OTL tube and the beyer. When (which Voltage/power output. ...etc) does one reach the point of "properly driven"?
 
I guess the better question is:
 
Provided that the amp gives enough volume; does having more voltage provide any sonic advantages/differences compared to "lower voltage"?
 
Edit: Also I have noted that when using dt990/600 ohm with DAP; I have enough volume; but the sounds coming out is really "compressed" - like putting the whole orchestra inside a public toilet if you know what I mean. Even listen to badly recorded metal, it sounds distant and feels like someone use EQ to cut off half the bass and treble. What is the "scientific" explanation for this?
Quote:

It depends on your listening habits (i.e. preferred loudness), and the material that is being listened to (classical music needs more than "loudness war" compressed pop/rock/etc. music). For a reasonable upper limit, one could consider the maximum rated power of the headphone, which is 100 mW, and translates to about 7.75 Vrms. This is a limit of what the headphone can handle without the risk of damaging the drivers, though, and it tends to sound pretty bad (high distortion mainly in the bass range, with the drivers bottoming out on the lower frequencies) well before reaching the maximum, not to mention being harmful to hearing. The FiiO E9, the Asus Xonar Essence ST/STX, and the Objective2 amplifier (to list some relatively cheap options) can all output up to about 7 Vrms, so they are not far from the maximum, and should be sufficient in theory.
-snip-
 

 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaine1711 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
However, I've read that loudness does not equal "properly driven". That makes me wonder if "properly driven" means the colouration one wishes to achieve plus sufficient volume; or just the synergy between OTL tube and the beyer. When (which Voltage/power output. ...etc) does one reach the point of "properly driven"?

 
I doubt there is an exact definition of "properly driven", at least in the sense it is usually used on Head-Fi. One could try to define it technically, like being able to reach the desired listening volume without any kind of audible quality degradation from the amplifier, based on any number of measurable parameters being within certain limits, or double-blind listening tests against a known "good" reference source. But more often than not, this phrase may just mean "having sufficiently expensive equipment".
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by khaine1711 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Provided that the amp gives enough volume; does having more voltage provide any sonic advantages/differences compared to "lower voltage"?

 
In theory no, provided that the "lower voltage" source can still reproduce the loud enough signal without any flaws that might be audible (high distortion, clipping, etc.).
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by khaine1711 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Edit: Also I have noted that when using dt990/600 ohm with DAP; I have enough volume; but the sounds coming out is really "compressed" - like putting the whole orchestra inside a public toilet if you know what I mean. Even listen to badly recorded metal, it sounds distant and feels like someone use EQ to cut off half the bass and treble. What is the "scientific" explanation for this?

 
There can be many reasons why it sounds that way. It can only be known for sure by recording the output of the DAP (while it is driving the headphones, possibly playing various test signals from a lossless format audio file), and analyzing it. One possible simple explanation is that the sound is being distorted because the player clips, or is being driven very near the clipping level.
 

 

[TMRaven]

On head-fi, properly driven means the user's found a sound signature he likes.