DROP + GRELL OAE1

[4udio7ool]

I too have struggled with @listenerwww's review. Not because it is negative, because I was already expecting that and I actually agree with all of his issues with the OAE1. Comfort is an problem. Timbre is off. Detail is not particularly good. And the marketing exaggerates the front localization effect (but honestly, isn't that marketing's job?). It took me a few days thinking about it and the reason this review bothers me is that he doesn't just say that he didn't like the OAE1, he basically says I shouldn't either. It's right there in the title "Why You Shouldn't Care About Soundstage".

Much of the review is an explanation of why these headphones do not and cannot have true front localization. You will never convincingly hear music coming from in front of you without implementing sophisticated DSP like EQ, crossfeed, and head tracking. But to me that is missing the point. The sensation of the music coming from a source outside of my head and in front of me is not an on/off switch. It is still worthwhile to design a headphone that increases this sensation without being 100% convincing. In fact I don't think it will be 100% convincing without video to accompany the audio anyway.

Saying that soundstage doesn't matter to music listening without DSP is like saying screen size doesn't matter to the experience of movie watching without VR goggles. Yes, when you turn your head the illusion is broken. Yes, you can't properly perceive depth without separate images being presented to each eye. But that doesn't mean you might as well watch movies on your phone.

In the end Listener didn't perceive any increased externalization with the OAE1, and that's fine with me. I do. There are many people on this thread that do too, some of whom still returned their purchase. The problem I have with the way the review reads is that it comes across as "I didn't perceive any externalization, and you won't either. Here's the science to prove that." It kinda implies that Axel Grell is either unaware of or doesn't agree with the science too. And before you point out that he never actually says those things or that in the conclusion he qualifies it by saying he can't be certain how every listener will hear the OAE1, remember that I am just talking about expectations he is giving the reader who hasn't heard the OAE1 (which is the point of a review). Sort of like what expectations marketing terms such as "speaker-like" and "natural" give.

TBH I think this whole thing could have been avoided if Grell marketing just put the word "more" in front of those terms.

 

[listenerwww]

I too have struggled with @listenerwww's review. Not because it is negative, because I was already expecting that and I actually agree with all of his issues with the OAE1. Comfort is an problem. Timbre is off. Detail is not particularly good. And the marketing exaggerates the front localization effect (but honestly, isn't that marketing's job?). It took me a few days thinking about it and the reason this review bothers me is that he doesn't just say that he didn't like the OAE1, he basically says I shouldn't either. It's right there in the title "Why You Shouldn't Care About Soundstage".

Much of the review is an explanation of why these headphones do not and cannot have true front localization. You will never convincingly hear music coming from in front of you without implementing sophisticated DSP like EQ, crossfeed, and head tracking. But to me that is missing the point. The sensation of the music coming from a source outside of my head and in front of me is not an on/off switch. It is still worthwhile to design a headphone that increases this sensation without being 100% convincing. In fact I don't think it will be 100% convincing without video to accompany the audio anyway.

Saying that soundstage doesn't matter to music listening without DSP is like saying screen size doesn't matter to the experience of movie watching without VR goggles. Yes, when you turn your head the illusion is broken. Yes, you can't properly perceive depth without separate images being presented to each eye. But that doesn't mean you might as well watch movies on your phone.

In the end Listener didn't perceive any increased externalization with the OAE1, and that's fine with me. I do. There are many people on this thread that do too, some of whom still returned their purchase. The problem I have with the way the review reads is that it comes across as "I didn't perceive any externalization, and you won't either. Here's the science to prove that." It kinda implies that Axel Grell is either unaware of or doesn't agree with the science too. And before you point out that he never actually says those things or that in the conclusion he qualifies it by saying he can't be certain how every listener will hear the OAE1, remember that I am just talking about expectations he is giving the reader who hasn't heard the OAE1 (which is the point of a review). Sort of like what expectations marketing terms such as "speaker-like" and "natural" give.

TBH I think this whole thing could have been avoided if Grell marketing just put the word "more" in front of those terms.

Hey Audiotool, nice to see ya!

I think that's a fair criticism, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it out thoughtfully. Given a huge part of my aim with this article was getting people to think more critically about what soundstage is and isn't + how important it actually is to them, I think the title works well at getting readers to engage with the idea in a way they may not have previously. The only expectation I aimed to instill was "(Readers) should probably be doubting the very idea of headphone soundstage a little more than they are now, because it is both fairly complex in a way they might not be aware of, as well as a bit of a misnomer." But titles can only be so long

Also just wanna say for the record: I certainly never intended to make it seem like Axel was unaware of the extant literature on headphones; he is likely much more familiar with the literature than I am, given he is a proper engineer who's been working in the field (making the best headphones in the world) for longer than I have been alive, while I'm just some nerd who cares perhaps a little too deeply about any headphone he is involved with.

As it goes with any artform, it is advisable to know the "rules" or best practices very well before you decide to take liberties with them or break them, and I think OAE-1 is a very good example of this. It is, at its core, what happens when someone intimately familiar with how great-sounding headphones are made bravely tries their hand at a novel approach not explicitly supported by the literature to test how people perceive/enjoy it. Whether this attempt ended up working out well is, of course, down to the person listening.

Thanks so much for reading!

 

[4udio7ool]

Given a huge part of my aim with this article was getting people to think more critically about what soundstage is and isn't + how important it actually is to them, I think the title works well at getting readers to engage with the idea in a way they may not have previously. The only expectation I aimed to instill was "(Readers) should probably be doubting the very idea of headphone soundstage a little more than they are now, because it is both fairly complex in a way they might not be aware of, as well as a bit of a misnomer." But titles can only be so long

It's almost like you have to over condense and exaggerate the marketing - er uh I mean title - a bit to get people to actually read the article.

 

[Rob80b]

I did read your review. Then just out of curiosity I went to your Webshop,

Just to be very clear: I have no input on anything that happens in the storefront.

Hi Griffin, (yes tracked down your Bio, (I'll put mine at the bottom) one of the problems that may arise and possibly misconstrued as a bias is that "the Review" is featured on the Headphone.com site that sells headphones.

But the OAE1 is/was available only from Drop and for only $350. Just saying.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-burns-14abab76/

 

[fidgeraldo]

different yes but as equally rewarding and for my preferences ahead of the HD660S2, IMHO. : )

That's interesting to hear!
I am not excluding these headphones at all, but I will wait for the second iteration with a different headband.
I just can't accept this headband.
Also, I am waiting for the new Verum to come out...
Unless there would be an OAE1 in Classifieds for 250 euros...then I might take it (both) and rearrange the headband.

Cheers!

 

[tdogzthmn]

I want to declare that, for me personally, note that for me personally, i think the oae1 is better than all the headphones i have ever heard. including hd800, fostex909, focal utopia, mysphere, k1000... oae1 is unique, special sound, it is not something that has been pushed hard into the ear for a long time, it is natural, harmonious, pleasant. someone thinks i am crazy, no problem. a dish, obviously there are people who hate and like it. no problem. those who don't like it just need to be indifferent, those who like it we can share. i don't think we are fan boys out there. no need to try to defend our point of view, or worship something like a religion...

Do you mind sharing what amp you have been using with your OAE1s?

 

[Fatdoi]

Is music a scientific field?

Cheers!

imo.... sound is scientific and music is artistic.... music is made up of different combination of sounds and for me the most scientific thing on music is when musicians tune their instruments to a common A that's either 440hz or 415hz....

 

[Somafunk]

@Rob80b I see you’re in Nova Scotia and studied art/print, probably a very stupid question have you ever met Jennie Lamont?, she’s my Aunt and moved over to Nova Scotia in the 70’s - she does a lot of Linocut art and other art styles. I believe she taught at the College of Art.

 

[Poimandres]

Which was which. : )

What was the turning point, consistency in sound?


Waiting on my Balanced XLR but expecting just an increase in gain.

Yes consistency in sound. Sometimes they sounded really good and the rest of the time they didn’t. This definitely had more to do with finding the exact placement where they sounded their best, plus I didn’t find them that comfortable for longer listening sessions.

I am looking forward to the next iteration of the OAE, I am certain that Grell will take what was learned with this release and make major improvements.

I was on the fence about keeping them (really enjoyed them for gaming when I could get them positioned correctly) and listened to them daily.

I even held on to them until a few days ago giving them the benefit of the doubt.

While waiting for the Hart balanced cable to come in, I decided to give the HD800S an audition. I went back and forth between the two, listening to multiple tracks for a few days, all single ended on the Schiit Magni Unity with built in DAC, Liquid Platinum Amp and DAC as well as the Mojo2/Poly and finally decided to send the OAE’s back.

I do still have the Hart modular cable for the OAE’s, if someone would like it send me a pm.

 

[Resolve]

I posted this in the corresponding thread on our forum but figured I'd post it here as well for those interested. Here are the measurements from both GRAS and B&K 5128 measurement fixtures.

These should be treated as different ‘heads’. What you’re seeing here is how the headphone’s behavior changes from head to head. When placed normally, it seems fairly consistent across the two systems. So when placed as identically as possible, it does seem like the benefits of ultra low acoustic impedance are there.

Sadly, there is likely to be stronger variation across heads in practice, across different individuals depending on where the driver sits relative to the ear. I have some additional measurements of forward/back positioning and things do change quite a bit, as expected.

 

[Somafunk]

I've definitely got the wrong shaped head and pinnae to fully appreciate the OAE1 - yeah....I do resemble my avatar, just had another listen tonight to Hania Rani - On Giacometti, her piano sounds muted and almost as if it is miked up underneath blankets, there's no sparkle or life.

https://tidal.com/browse/album/263666888?u

 

[buidoimiennui]

Do you mind sharing what amp you have been using with your OAE1s?

hi, i use this alone to listen to all the above headphones, the sound quality is very good, and enough power for the headphones to perform properly, without being dependent on electricity.

 

[568812]

I posted this in the corresponding thread on our forum but figured I'd post it here as well for those interested. Here are the measurements from both GRAS and B&K 5128 measurement fixtures.



These should be treated as different ‘heads’. What you’re seeing here is how the headphone’s behavior changes from head to head. When placed normally, it seems fairly consistent across the two systems. So when placed as identically as possible, it does seem like the benefits of ultra low acoustic impedance are there.

Sadly, there is likely to be stronger variation across heads in practice, across different individuals depending on where the driver sits relative to the ear. I have some additional measurements of forward/back positioning and things do change quite a bit, as expected.

Which may or may not explain why some like it, others don't. We all have different ear shapes/sizes too. If your ears fill a cup completely it will sound different than if you have tiny receptors which leave space in the cups.

Everything with headphones seems to have a lot of variables which makes it so difficult on occasions to understand that others seem to have a completely different impression of sound, preferences aside.

It is, in many ways comparable to a channel speakers system. If you have unfavourable room conditions it can make or break the sound.

 

[MrTechAgent]

Was pleasantly surprised to see these show up as I had forgotten about ordering them.
I will enjoy these as a celebration of Mr. Grell's contribution to the industry and how he shaped it into the way it is today.

Thank you for everything Mr. Grell!



Just a bit disappointed that the signature was already worn and damaged upon unboxing.

 

[gikigill]

After a bit more listening and adjustments, these are being run off an ADI2 and an Element 3 Boosted. The JDS seems to gel more with the temperament of the OAE1 with the RME never quite sounding right even after EQ. I prefer the RME more in a general sense and have 2 of them for separate use cases, one for headphones and one for my active speakers. The JDS just seems to flow and I could listen to these for hours without discomfort while the RME is just a bit off for some reason.

Surprisingly the Element seems to run out of juice at higher volume (in high gain) compared to the RME which drives these to distortion. I,ll be testing these with more amps to see for further changes.