DROP + GRELL OAE1

[Rob80b]

Except the literal conclusion to the article that you’re conveniently ignoring:

"People will buy Grell OAE-1, and despite me thinking they probably shouldn’t, there are still valid reasons to do so."

The author validates everything you’ve stated in their final words.

Yes exactly ....despite me thinking they probably shouldn’t,....." .. if a little "IMHO" or "my preferences" was sprinkled once in awhile within the review I wouldn't have an issue, but from "their" knowledge and opinions they are basically saying "do not by the Grell"...sorry that is so wrong in so many ways, IMHO.

Now having said that I will have to agree the "Market Speak "presented by Drop could be construed as misleading and can see why many could be disappointed, so much so that it may be impossible for them to enjoy or get anything out of the OAE1. And while Axel's intentions are to present us with a new concept the bottom line for any business is to make money, as consumers we need to go in with eyes wide open.
Still IMHO I find the OAE1 rather successful in its delivery, maybe it's decades of listening that has educated my ears to easily pick out certain cues and get more out of it as Axel intended, who knows.

 

[listenerwww]

I did read your review. Then just out of curiosity I went to your Webshop, clicked on the first headphones that appeared there, and the description of those 800 bucks phones stated "best soundstage" o.O

Now I am confused, since I interpreted, part of your OAE1 bash, tried to tell people that there cannot be soundstage with headphones at all?

Mate really - your reviewer should have stopped at the point where he stated that the phones don't fit him. Maybe some curves added for those who think they can pre judge by that, instead of listening open mindet.

Honestly the soundstage thing is what makes me never again even consider reading or watching your stuff.

Another guy that made me laugh here in this thread was the one writing, that he EQ'ed the Grells to the very same he listens normally to, then saying he sent them back, because they just sounded as what he normally listens to and are nothing special because of that XD

Just to be very clear: I have no input on anything that happens in the storefront. The only time anyone in the content team has had input on what happens in the store is when we've begged to carry a product that we fully believed was something people would enjoy, and this happens extremely infrequently.

I have been (and will continue to be) plenty critical of headphones sold by Headphones.com, both in terms of how the headphones perform for me subjectively and how they live up to the claims of their marketing. I'm not going to change my opinion on a product just because Headphones.com sells it. If I did, my reviews of eg. the Sennheiser HD 660S2 or Audeze MM-100 would've been much more positive than they actually were.

The former is actually a good example of one where I felt the marketing didn't match the performance (660S2 being advertised as having "deep, accurate sub bass") and I did my part to make sure people adjusted their expectations, and didn't think HD 660S2's bass would be a night and day difference from the earlier 6 series offerings.

Re: "cannot be soundstage with headphones at all," I detailed the exact conditions that would be required for headphones to have soundstage akin to speakers, so it is possible. It's just that passive headphones like OAE-1 don't meet the criteria needed for your brain's localization process to be properly tickled, despite people's expectations from the marketing possibly leading them to believe that it could. That's all.

 

[Rob80b]

I was very much interested in these headphones, but when I saw the final design and the headband, I gave up on them, regardless of the sound.

If one can get past the fit, my old noggin is probably a lot less sensitive, I'm finding the OAE1 stands up up quite well against the HD800S and the HD820, different yes but as equally rewarding and for my preferences ahead of the HD660S2, IMHO. : )

 

[Resolve]

Re: "cannot be soundstage with headphones at all," I detailed the exact conditions that would be required for headphones to have soundstage akin to speakers, so it is possible. It's just that passive headphones like OAE-1 don't meet the criteria needed for your brain's localization process to be properly tickled, despite people's expectations from the marketing possibly leading them to believe that it could. That's all.

Just to co-sign this, I fully agree with this statement regarding soundstage. I think the big issue with soundstage is that people are so used to using this kind of language to describe their experiences, and it's created an inertia all of its own - to become something people are chasing, perhaps somewhat erroneously. It's not like the spaciousness effect people call soundstage isn't a real, tangible effect, that could be more or less compelling depending on the headphone's design and acoustic performance. It's that we should start to recognize this as an effect, a coloration of some kind. It can, and likely is something many find enjoyable, but it generally comes at a cost to performance in other areas. And those of us who have been on this ride for a very long time have found it to be less compelling than the initial "wow" effect of some of these colorations.

 

[ApertureSilence]

Truly we must all bow down before Rob’s educated ears. Only they have the capacity to fully grasp and appreciate Axel Grell’s genius.

 

[Rob80b]

Anyway, I see there are playlist shared by people but its too much work going through this long thread again. Any good suggestion?

My tastes are so eclectic I almost wouldn't know where to begin.
If you are interested in what has been presented in this tread most suggestions are accompanied by a photo and clicking on "See full gallery" will brings them up.

 

[JM Popaleetus]

if a little "IMHO" or "my preferences" was sprinkled once in awhile within the review I wouldn't have an issue, but from "their" knowledge and opinions they are basically saying "do not by the Grell"...sorry that is so wrong in so many ways, IMHO.

What do you think “despite me thinking” means?

Just because I’m not going to be recommending it doesn’t mean it’s impossible that you’ll enjoy it, though. And just because I say soundstage doesn’t really exist the way most people think about it doesn’t mean there isn’t something special about how the OAE-1 presents space on your head.

The article couldn’t possibly be any more transparently ‘IMHO’ from the author. Actually it could, if you keep reading:

I can’t know with any certainty what is happening for a given listener who isn’t myself, so feel free to take all of the above with as many grains of salt as you’d like.

…

I’m just presenting my experience with a headphone that I—as an HD 800 lover—deeply wanted to succeed, while providing the context of my current read of the science and how it informs my perspective on this headphone’s goals.

 

[JM Popaleetus]

Since @Resolve is here. How about that Hadenys? Truly actually the HD600 upgrade with bass we’ve been waiting for?

 

[Resolve]

Since @Resolve is here. How about that Hadenys? Truly actually the HD600 upgrade with bass we’ve been waiting for?

That probably belongs in a different thread. I like the Hadenys, but... I would hesitate to say it's an upgrade over the HD 600 in all aspects. I mentioned this in my review that like, there are certain things about it that are an upgrade, like in the bass, and harmonic distortion. But for 'timbre' or 'tone color', what the HD 600 is really all about, no I'd say that's still better. So in my view it would be incorrect to say that it's just like an HD 600 with a bass shelf, even though for wideband that description might make a certain amount of sense.

 

[JM Popaleetus]

That probably belongs in a different thread. I like the Hadenys, but... I would hesitate to say it's an upgrade over the HD 600 in all aspects. I mentioned this in my review that like, there are certain things about it that are an upgrade, like in the bass, and harmonic distortion. But for 'timbre' or 'tone color', what the HD 600 is really all about, no I'd say that's still better. So in my view it would be incorrect to say that it's just like an HD 600 with a bass shelf, even though for wideband that description might make a certain amount of sense.

Excited to receive mine. Thanks for the response!

 

[Rob80b]

I fully agree with this statement regarding soundstage.

HI Andrew, I can only speak for my self but for as long as I've been involved in music, as an artist, as a recording technician and audio enthusiast the placement of the musicians, instruments live or synthesized in the sound field, the capture or artificial recreation of the hall or studio ambience has been a very important aspect to be included in the final recording for as long as there have been recording technicians.
We can all agree that headphone and stereo listening are two different approaches to enjoying music, I prefer the later and headphones will always be a compromise for me but headphones that try or at least give some semblance of a soundstage will always be my preference.

It's that we should start to recognize this as an effect, a coloration of some kind.

Sorry, but I believe many would disagree, you are one of the purveyors of EQ, I prefer to hear the recording warts and all so I may be completely oblivious to to these so called "colorations", they are not a bee in my bonnet, whereas yourself, looking at graphs and measurements and EQing this and EQing to change the original recording as it is sent to the headphones, well?
My point being is that we are actually able to capture or create something, music or otherwise which finally gets regurgitated with some speakers or headphone drivers that excites the air to create an "effect", in this case the illusion of music and for some of us also the sensation of a soundstage. : )

And those of us who have been on this ride for a very long time have found it to be less compelling than the initial "wow" effect of some of these colorations.

Again, and no disrepect but you are speaking for your self, but for myself staring as a teen with my first pair in the 60s I still get and look forward to that "wow" effect almost 60 years later.

 

[JoeDee]

I'm still waiting for my OAE1, but I'm currently pretty confident I'll get it "eventually" lol
Anyway
Too bad this thread is turning into the typical trench warfare thread where the two camps tell the other camp "you somehow have no idea"

Isn't there a rule that online threads always end with Nazi comparisons?
As a German who has nothing to do with the past and generally finds it bad to be regularly associated with it, I've mentioned this comparison before now and everyone should calm down a bit.

In the meantime, I'm still looking forward to the headphone, simply because I think they suit my preferred listening.

Can I be disappointed? sure
But that was clear to me from the start. I usually do a lot of research on products before I buy them, especially if I'm above a certain budget.
That wasn't possible here, so it was a gut feeling purchase.

And the gut said "Whoah, a Headphone from Axel Grell, 15 years after the legenady HD800, the succesor for 350 Bucks, What" (i am pretty sure, many really believe this way)
So you creating the Hype by yourself.
To be honest, I didn't know who Axel Grell was until I ordered these headphones.

 

[buidoimiennui]

I want to declare that, for me personally, note that for me personally, i think the oae1 is better than all the headphones i have ever heard. including hd800, fostex909, focal utopia, mysphere, k1000... oae1 is unique, special sound, it is not something that has been pushed hard into the ear for a long time, it is natural, harmonious, pleasant. someone thinks i am crazy, no problem. a dish, obviously there are people who hate and like it. no problem. those who don't like it just need to be indifferent, those who like it we can share. i don't think we are fan boys out there. no need to try to defend our point of view, or worship something like a religion...

 

[Rob80b]

What do you think “despite me thinking” means?

Semantics can be a bugger. : )
But in this case I would surmise.."against my better judgment" ...IMHO.

 

[Rob80b]

I want to declare that,

And so you may, last time I checked this is the Grell OAE1 thread, trespassers beware.
Seriously though, I personally preferred the HD800S over the Utopia and I'm currently quite liking my OAE1 over my HD800S for similar reasons, and while not the frontal soundscape that would have been quite the accomplishment, there is for me an essence much to my liking of listening to stereo speakers that I have not gotten from other headphones.