[Train]

I agree that you don't need to go out of your way for the highest possible sound quality while driving, but I can tell you with full confidence that even the stock iBuds put out far greater sound quality than my vehicle's sound system. I used to just burn CDs to listen to with my car's CD player, but I stopped doing that years ago because the speakers were just plain awful and the whole balance of the music being played is way off. My car speakers are about as resolving as a telephone, and I don't ever plan on spending many hundreds or even thousands of dollars upgrading them. What's more is that you don't need any bit concentration on the music to hear how bad they are.
 
So in that case, using my iPod and just about any set of headphones or IEMs is far more convenient and infinitely more enjoyable. As I believe I've stressed before in this thread, I listen to my IEMs only during my short daily commutes or while far out of town (and traffic). For longer drives, I typically play one of the few CDs I have that still sounds decent using my car stereo so that I don't ever have to fiddle with my iPod. I also hate driving downtown, and never listen to anything during such times.

 

[sml1226]

Ok there's the problem I'm not seeing prior to now. All of my car audio (dad's, mom's, grandparents', and mine) all have enough quality to not care, but not enough to say it sounds great by any means. When it's that off I can see headphones as a great means of audio since car speakers are obscenely expensive unless you want to replace crap with crap. With mine, however, they are acceptable enough that I can listen to it and be perfectly fine with that without needing to have something "better" by any sense of what that means.

 

[b0ck3n]

I'd like to again stress the huge benefit of hearing protection that IEMs provide. Ever since I started using them for work I've noticed a sizeable difference in hearing sensitivity.

 

[Solrighal]

Unless you're trying to hear the ambulance that's been behind you for the last minute. Or the fire engine that's fast approaching the intersection from the left which you have right of way on...

 

[Train]

 
Quote:

Ok there's the problem I'm not seeing prior to now. All of my car audio (dad's, mom's, grandparents', and mine) all have enough quality to not care, but not enough to say it sounds great by any means. When it's that off I can see headphones as a great means of audio since car speakers are obscenely expensive unless you want to replace crap with crap. With mine, however, they are acceptable enough that I can listen to it and be perfectly fine with that without needing to have something "better" by any sense of what that means.

Agreed. I certainly don't see the need for critical listening while on the road, assuming one could even pull it off with all the road noise. The desire for better quality listening, for me, comes when your car speakers are as bottom-tier as they come. My parents' cars have fairly good stock audio systems, which I would prefer to using headphones due to the added convenience. All I'm really looking for in driving music is a good beat and balance...something nearly impossible to find in my current car.

 

[b0ck3n]

That's in-EAR monitors, not in-eye monitors. Unless you're driving an open car, sirens are alot easier to see than to hear, especially when moving at high speeds. If you're the kinda person who can't be arsed to read the traffic then by all means don't listen to headphones while driving. I'm tired of being lectured by people who don't know the first thing of driving - yes it's dangerous for YOU to listen to music while driving, but by my standards you're too dangerous to drive without music on aswell.

Unless you're trying to hear the ambulance that's been behind you for the last minute. Or the fire engine that's fast approaching the intersection from the left which you have right of way on...

 

[Solrighal]

 
Quote:

That's in-EAR monitors, not in-eye monitors. Unless you're driving an open car, sirens are alot easier to see than to hear, especially when moving at high speeds. If you're the kinda person who can't be arsed to read the traffic then by all means don't listen to headphones while driving. I'm tired of being lectured by people who don't know the first thing of driving - yes it's dangerous for YOU to listen to music while driving, but by my standards you're too dangerous to drive without music on aswell.


Quote:

Unless you're trying to hear the ambulance that's been behind you for the last minute. Or the fire engine that's fast approaching the intersection from the left which you have right of way on...

 

I'm not sure why you've decided to get personal mate but for the record I've been driving for 28 years and driving professionally for 21 of those years. In that time I have picked up one endorsement for a minor offence and that was 27 years ago.
 
Back to the topic at hand - an emergency vehicle on call mght not be in your line of site until he's almost on top of you, that's why they have sirens. Get real.

 

[b0ck3n]

I didn't intend to get personal, I meant to say that everyone has a right and a responsibility to see their own limitations. And reading your last arguement again I see your point about the fire engine, or any other emergenzy vehicle approaching a four-way intersection with blocked fields of view.

 

[ace5000]

While on the highway the other day I saw a car in the right hand lane that had the right rear tire extremely low on air - close to flat. As I pulled up next to the car I tried to get the attention of the driver to warn her with a hand signal. The young woman did not look over. It was perplexing. I then honked the horn (a few too many times) when she finally looked over and pulled out her IEMs or ear buds. I was then able to point towards the rear of the car when she got the idea that something was wrong and pulled off at the next exit... The incident reminded me of this thread.
 
If I was an Ohio State trooper, she would have been pulled over and fined for driving with headphones - with good reason. Duh - Winning.

 

[vYu223]

 
Quote:

Quote:

 

If you're not alone, you can still keep your IEMs in, keep the music off and talk with any passenger(s). The road noise will force the passengers to raise their voices loud enough to penetrate the IEMs. Conversation will not be a problem. If he/she/they fall asleep, turn the music on. Only turn the music loud enough to a comfortable volume. Road noise will make it impossible to turn the music loud enough to drown it out without reaching SPL levels that cause noise induced hearing loss.
 
Also, SPL that reaches your ears when you "crank your phones volume" < SPL that reaches your ears when you "crank your car speakers". This is because the passive isolation IEMs provide reduces (BUT NOT ELIMINATES) the amount of road noise reaching your ears. This allows you to set the music to a lower volume. Using IEMs will save your hearing.

My only problem there is that really depends on how well isolated your car is to begin with. And I rarely have my speakers anywhere near harmful levels and easily drown out road noise. Not completely, but that's a part of driving if you ask me. Music in your car serves as a distraction more than a source of entertainment and enjoyment. You aren't supposed to, and can't really devote complete focus to the music, so why do you need to have it loud enough to ignore the road around you in the first place.

My point was that you CAN'T have the music loud enough to drown out road noise, with or without IEMs. I actually strongly DISCOURAGED turning the music up loud enough to drown out road noise, stating that it would cause noise induced hearing loss. I don't use IEMs for sound quality or focus on music. I use them to preserve my hearing.
 
Even the the cars with the quietest interiors can only offer so much isolation. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a mass-produced car that offers a vacuum-sealed layer that surrounds the cabin. I estimate maximum isolation to be around or less than 30db.
 
A couple times I tried to catch up on some sleep during the day by napping in my car in a parking lot. I was wearing 25dB rated earplugs underneath 27dB rated earmuffs inside my car with the windows rolled up, doors closed, and the engine turned off (Toyota Camry '98 in good condition) I could still hear cars moving wind in the parking lot when they were rolling by! I could hear a hybrid coast by my car. Of course, I could not fall asleep with all the noise - even though the noise was greatly reduced.. My point is that the noise was only REDUCED, but not ELIMINATED. Another example is when I used foam earplugs while taking a test. I had a conversation with the proctor afterward in a quiet room. I had forgotten that I still had the earplugs in until after I had the conversation. That's because human speech is usually around 60dB, and the earplugs could only cut about 30dB. Note: I have medium to long length hair that covers my ears - the proctor was not aware that I was wearing earplugs (otherwise my story would be ruined by assuming that the proctor was raising her voice).
 
This is why earplugs are advertised as ATTENUATING sound, not ELIMINATING it. On the road, while driving, even while wearing IEMs, the road noise + emergency sirens will most certainly be able to penetrate the car's exterior, as well as through the IEMs' seal. IEMs may offer isolation up to maybe around 35dB. Let's be generous and give a hypothetical car's isolation a rating of around 40dB. Sirens are a hell of a lot louder than both added together. End result = having the ability to turn the music down to a much lower volume while accepting that road noise will penetrate and mix with the music (making it impossible to do any critical listening - that is, to the music) while still being able to hear emergency sirens, all the while preserving your hearing by keeping SPL that reaches your ears < 85dB, which is considered the "safe" listening level.

 

[sml1226]

 


My point was that you CAN'T have the music loud enough to drown out road noise, with or without IEMs. I actually strongly DISCOURAGED turning the music up loud enough to drown out road noise, stating that it would cause noise induced hearing loss. I don't use IEMs for sound quality or focus on music. I use them to preserve my hearing.
 
Even the the cars with the quietest interiors can only offer so much isolation. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a mass-produced car that offers a vacuum-sealed layer that surrounds the cabin. I estimate maximum isolation to be around or less than 30db.
 
A couple times I tried to catch up on some sleep during the day by napping in my car in a parking lot. I was wearing 25dB rated earplugs underneath 27dB rated earmuffs inside my car with the windows rolled up, doors closed, and the engine turned off (Toyota Camry '98 in good condition) I could still hear cars moving wind in the parking lot when they were rolling by! I could hear a hybrid coast by my car. Of course, I could not fall asleep with all the noise - even though the noise was greatly reduced.. My point is that the noise was only REDUCED, but not ELIMINATED. Another example is when I used foam earplugs while taking a test. I had a conversation with the proctor afterward in a quiet room. I had forgotten that I still had the earplugs in until after I had the conversation. That's because human speech is usually around 60dB, and the earplugs could only cut about 30dB. Note: I have medium to long length hair that covers my ears - the proctor was not aware that I was wearing earplugs (otherwise my story would be ruined by assuming that the proctor was raising her voice).
 
This is why earplugs are advertised as ATTENUATING sound, not ELIMINATING it. On the road, while driving, even while wearing IEMs, the road noise + emergency sirens will most certainly be able to penetrate the car's exterior, as well as through the IEMs' seal. IEMs may offer isolation up to maybe around 35dB. Let's be generous and give a hypothetical car's isolation a rating of around 40dB. Sirens are a hell of a lot louder than both added together. End result = having the ability to turn the music down to a much lower volume while accepting that road noise will penetrate and mix with the music (making it impossible to do any critical listening - that is, to the music) while still being able to hear emergency sirens, all the while preserving your hearing by keeping SPL that reaches your ears < 85dB, which is considered the "safe" listening level.

Ok I'll admit it is far quieter, and easier to safely use IEMs as opposed to your car stereo, but I have no need to completely remove myself from the outside noise. In fact I find myself with the windows down while driving and listening to music. Doesn't that in fact reduce the SPL of the car stereo due to being less confined hence the "need" to raise the volume to be at the same perceptual volume??

About your sleep issue, I can't have complete silence when trying to sleep or the slightest noise will result in an inability to sleep. So you may be the same way and attempts at silence were a bad idea and you would have been better off putting some iEMs in and playing it extremely quietly just so you had a constant (enjoyable) ambient noise.

And more importantly, my original statement, and the basic focus of every subsequent one, as far as I remember it to be, was, or was supposed to be anyway, on sound quality over isolation and safety. My point was that there is no point in higher quality audio while driving because there will always be road noise so you wond notice it. So really, we have been in agreement this whole time on road noise being present regardless.

I'm not trying to argue that you're wrong, or that I'm right. I think we're arguing the same thing in one area and completely different topics on the other hand that are similar enough to take it as an contradiction to what the other person just said.

 

[RADI0HEAD]

I haven't read through this whole thread and maybe it has already been mentioned but there are deaf people that drive motor vehicles...

That being said I do use iems when riding my motorcycle mostly to protect my hearing from the loud road noise. I keep the volume low where I can still talk to a fellow rider next to me when stopped at a red light. As with anything else I exercise caution. YMMV