Dre Beats good for $200 price range?

[synaesthetic]

Well everyone's going to have a low-end consumer product, because profit margins are so much higher in that range. Audio-Technica's lower end products are aimed at this market--the ES7, the ON3, the plethora of under-100 products that AT markets (mostly) to Japanese consumers.

I wouldn't consider the AD2000s or W5000s to be "mass-market" however.

 

[dookiex]

Of course not but then again those are leaps and bounds in a different price range as well (AD2000s and W5000s). Those definitely are not aimed at the market that the Beats are aimed at. The great thing about the Beats is that for the market they are intended for, they are actually good values at $350 for those who own an iPhone and if they were $300 or lower, they would be great value for basically anybody who wants to use them on the go.

By the way, much of the AT consumer line are good but not phenomenal and their pricing isn't all that far off from the Beats and the Beats actually provides a bit more value with its accessories package, portability, styling, and active noise canceling.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

I am still not convinced with the active noise cancelling feature, If they came out with a version without this then I would consider.

 

[dookiex]

I don't think that with this design of headband and cushions that they were going for passive noise canceling. From having these and wearing them, they are super comfortable and it's very obvious that they purposely designed these with comfort in mind. Due to that, they don't clamp your head (the weight is also excellent and well distributed, what little weight there is) and without a pair of phones that clamp your head you will have sound leakage in and out of the phones (this basically goes for most if not all phones out there). The active noise canceling was implemented quite obviously to provide noise canceling AND a comfortable fit. With this in mind, the active noise canceling circuitry is actually excellent as it does it's job very well AND introduces the LEAST amount of active noise canceling hum out of virtually all the active noise canceling headphones on the market (I've actually had my fair share of ownership as well as auditioning of them, Bose, Sennheiser, Sony, Audio Technica, just to name a few).

 

[arteom]

sennheiser has aimed their 6x0 series at the home listener, more or less audiophiles. The HD-25 is their studio monitor phone, although here at head-fi it is better known as a portable.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookiex /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that with this design of headband and cushions that they were going for passive noise canceling. From having these and wearing them, they are super comfortable and it's very obvious that they purposely designed these with comfort in mind. Due to that, they don't clamp your head (the weight is also excellent and well distributed, what little weight there is) and without a pair of phones that clamp your head you will have sound leakage in and out of the phones (this basically goes for most if not all phones out there). The active noise canceling was implemented quite obviously to provide noise canceling AND a comfortable fit. With this in mind, the active noise canceling circuitry is actually excellent as it does it's job very well AND introduces the LEAST amount of active noise canceling hum out of virtually all the active noise canceling headphones on the market (I've actually had my fair share of ownership as well as auditioning of them, Bose, Sennheiser, Sony, Audio Technica, just to name a few).

A true audiophile product should not detract from the purity of the original music and therefore should not introduce additional unwanted artifacts such as hum into the signal source. If such hum is introduced, then it really defeats all purpose. It would be better to have a ultra low noise headphone amplifier and and excellent pair of cans. I cannot see how music can be enjoyed properly if there is hum introduced into a background. This is one of the reasons I have never bought a single pair of these so called active noise cancelling headphones.

However if the people at Monster were really to review the whole situation, it would be in their own best interests to come out with a pair of the same headphones in bear bones format without the fancy active noise cancellation that is more or less a compromise. Should not be paying US$200 plus to listen to hum (no matter what the amount of hum is)!

 

[dookiex]

You have to be joking me right? What part of apples to apples comparison did you miss? This was never aimed at audiophiles and were made for a specific use and market. For their intended market and use, these are top notch and are very hard to match with similar products. Sennheiser has a pair of active noise canceling phones, the Beats actually sound better and with a lower active noise canceling hum.

For the record, the Sennheiser HD600 series are more recently marketed for home use but originally they were aimed at studio use. Basically they've changed their marketing strategy to expand the demographics for the HD600 line.

Stevesabastianb, when someone inquires about product A that fits in a A situation it makes absolutely no sense to try to tell them that product B is better when product B is used for a B situation. Two different situations. Yes, there are tons of phones that sound better but they cost either MORE when you factor in what you also need in ADDITION to the phones to make them sound good and also some of these costs a little less than the Beats but again with that you are introducing bulk as they mostly need to be driven by a amp which also equates to extra cost. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges, don't take two things that are different with different intended use and try to compare them as equals. The thread asks if the Beats are good for the $200 price range. The answer is yes they are more than good for $200. At $300 they are good as a all inclusive package. At $350, they are really only good if you have an iPhone since the included cable with mic is more suitable for the iPhone. It's ridiculous to see people posting "Get HD600s instead" when physical size of those phones are not comparable with the Beats (they can hardly be called portable phones, seriously, if you choose to lug the extra bulk around and find a bag to hold them in, fine, but again you are using them outside of their intended environment, plus being open back, they are pretty bad as portables). They also require a amp which equals extra cost and extra bulk (don't even try to explain to me that a iPod or most DAPs can drive them fine, THAT is ridiculous as I use to use HD650s and HD600s).

Basically, trying to introduce studio equipment (which now that the brilliant headphone companies are trying to make some extra coinage, they market as "audiophile" phones) as a complete equal alternative is as silly as telling a person to go buy IEMs when they are asking specifically for full size headphones, it is also just as silly as telling a person to buy headphones when they are asking specifically about home stereo speakers.

 

[dookiex]

And last and finally (hopefully), I own these, the only time when you actually notice the hum is when there is nothing playing. When something is playing, you don't hear the hum and it does NOT distort the signal or add dreaded sibilance like quite a few active noise canceling phones tend to do. So, unless people who posts on threads such as this actually has had extended listens (I'm talking about actually having the equipment for a few hours AT least, preferably a few days to a week) then they really have no right to post any judgment on products in question. There's far too many posts with folks trying to help other members with comments like "product X I heard from other people on Head-Fi is really good, so I would go with product X." That is the most ridiculous and UNHELPFUL comment one can make. Unless you have ELIGIBLE first hand experience, you should not pollute a thread with "I heard this about this product, etc. etc." It's ridiculous how people come on and say "Yeah, I heard it for like 10 minutes, couldn't stand them" yet SO many of us (for the sake of an example) have actually bought ER-4S (or more popular, ER-6i) and having to retrain ourselves on how to listen to the music coming out of our music player (and you have to be really honest with yourselves here, first time experiencing Etymotics, it does take a while to get accustomed to the sound, just like how you may need to get accustomed to the sound if you switch to a different brand).

Head-Fi has some serious Emperor New Clothes symptoms and I think more honesty from folks would do the community some good if not a lot of good.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookiex /img/forum/go_quote.gif And last and finally (hopefully), I own these, the only time when you actually notice the hum is when there is nothing playing. When something is playing, you don't hear the hum and it does NOT distort the signal or add dreaded sibilance like quite a few active noise canceling phones tend to do. So, unless people who posts on threads such as this actually has had extended listens (I'm talking about actually having the equipment for a few hours AT least, preferably a few days to a week) then they really have no right to post any judgment on products in question. There's far too many posts with folks trying to help other members with comments like "product X I heard from other people on Head-Fi is really good, so I would go with product X." That is the most ridiculous and UNHELPFUL comment one can make. Unless you have ELIGIBLE first hand experience, you should not pollute a thread with "I heard this about this product, etc. etc." It's ridiculous how people come on and say "Yeah, I heard it for like 10 minutes, couldn't stand them" yet SO many of us (for the sake of an example) have actually bought ER-4S (or more popular, ER-6i) and having to retrain ourselves on how to listen to the music coming out of our music player (and you have to be really honest with yourselves here, first time experiencing Etymotics, it does take a while to get accustomed to the sound, just like how you may need to get accustomed to the sound if you switch to a different brand). Head-Fi has some serious Emperor New Clothes symptoms and I think more honesty from folks would do the community some good if not a lot of good.

You are taking the discussion too seriously, I am purely making my own observations vis-a-vis value for money on a product that is touted for the high end. So let's just leave it at that as you have your opinions which I respect and I have my own and will not squabble further over personal observations. I have actually heard them in a shop so I guess I can comment. Whether my comments are helpful and unhelpful is not your judgment call, their are fair reviews out on the web which point out both pros and cons of this product and others. I cannot see what I have said being not honest, as I said you are side tracking and getting personal for no reason and that is uncalled for.

I as well as anyone else here have a right to enquire, comment and find about about different products and you sir have absolutely no right or authority to dictate who can and who can't post on threads. What pollution there is here is in the uncalled for ballistic style rant that you have decided to go into which is not necessary and needed.

 

[dookiex]

Again, with your comments and bias towards active noise canceling, it results in an effect on other decisions. This is not good when you are comparing two different things for two different applications and comparing them as if they are on equal grounds. The Dre Beats are CLEARLY not aimed at the audiophile market and their use is CLEARLY not for home use but more so for portable use. I think I've made my points clear as day yet you are trying to rebuttal it and knock it down as rants?

I am definitely taking this seriously because my firm belief is that Head-Fi is for helping others, but this "help" too often are made with very broad and general statements which equates to nothing really helpful. Now, how is the majority of the content on this thread at all relevant when the question was "Dre Beats good for $200 price range?" Also, just because you listened to it in a shop, may I ask how long you have demoed them for? Is it truly fair to judge a product after a few minutes with them when in turn you would take a LOT more time to try out let's say a pair of Beyerdynamics? So in that sense, how are those views at all valid other than a very general opinion with no real experience to back it up? If you have noticed on my posts here and on other threads, I make it a rule to NOT put in my two cents on products which I don't have substantial experience with as that is just unfair judgment.

So to sum this all up, I'm not trying to attack you Stevesabastianb, I'm just asking you and many others on Head-Fi to take more care in their posts thus to be both fair to products and to better inform other Head-Fiers especially many of the new members.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookiex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, with your comments and bias towards active noise canceling, it results in an effect on other decisions. This is not good when you are comparing two different things for two different applications and comparing them as if they are on equal grounds. The Dre Beats are CLEARLY not aimed at the audiophile market and their use is CLEARLY not for home use but more so for portable use. I think I've made my points clear as day yet you are trying to rebuttal it and knock it down as rants? I am definitely taking this seriously because my firm belief is that Head-Fi is for helping others, but this "help" too often are made with very broad and general statements which equates to nothing really helpful. Now, how is the majority of the content on this thread at all relevant when the question was "Dre Beats good for $200 price range?" Also, just because you listened to it in a shop, may I ask how long you have demoed them for? Is it truly fair to judge a product after a few minutes with them when in turn you would take a LOT more time to try out let's say a pair of Beyerdynamics? So in that sense, how are those views at all valid other than a very general opinion with no real experience to back it up? If you have noticed on my posts here and on other threads, I make it a rule to NOT put in my two cents on products which I don't have substantial experience with as that is just unfair judgment. So to sum this all up, I'm not trying to attack you Stevesabastianb, I'm just asking you and many others on Head-Fi to take more care in their posts thus to be both fair to products and to better inform other Head-Fiers especially many of the new members.

Please give all of us a break, you really think most people on here don't have much sense to make up their minds about a purchasing decision, I think most people are educated enough to weigh up the pros and cons on each product to make up their own descisions as to whether a product is suitable or not. As for two cents, just because I posted "my" two cents you have decided you don't like what you have read abnd decided to attack me. I am merely voicing my own opinions as you are, I am not making or trying to make up anyone else's mind and I don't think you can either.

As for taking more care in making posts, you should do the same before posting a rude, condescending and arrogant reply which basically is telling me to shut up. That I do take offence to because you are trying to silience views and free speech of others and is not above board.

I have no bias againt noise reduction or signal processing in audio and electronic products, I run and own allot of DSP equipment dealing with audio processing from different makers. I am just not happpy when signal processing is not done right in this day and age and then it is passed off as a superior product at a high price. For the price the signal processing should be allot better then it is and there is just no excuse.

How can you sit there and say it is not aimed at the audiophile market when all the marketing hype and pricing clearly indicates that it is done for that market. Monster least you forget is a name and company that is well established in the audiophile market and that is already an answer and a shot in your own foot!

How many headphones may I ask have you reviewed and over what "extensive" period prior to purchase, each consumer is not able to and cannot take away products for lengthy periods to listen to before they decide if it is right or wrong for them. Your question is not a question, it is a fact of life so what and where is the point? No point! Clearly you just did not like what you read so tried to have a go at me, think again. You have the same rights as I do to post views and consumers are smart enough to make intelligent decisions themselves and think wisely on whether a product is suitable or not.

So stop trying to silience others, make you views and respect those of others without going ballistic and attacking people. No two apples and no two oranges will ever be the same, those are just broad sweeping statements. I have not been unfair to the product, my comments were only findings I have found on the noise cancellation aspects, I have not said the product as a whole is unacceptable so why blow things and distort things completely out of proper proportion.

Let people make their own decisions and do not try and dictate what people can and cannot post on the threads - you have no such right to do so - this is your Bias!

 

[silverrain]

 

[dookiex]

HA HA HA. You have contradicted yourself there Stevesabastianb. Why do you think people come on these forums ALL THE TIME to ask the "is this good?" questions? They are seeking sound advice. To be honest, no, people can not make informative decisions by themselves and thus forums like Head-Fi exists. Now, if forums like this exists with suggestions that boils down to OPINIONS with no real EXPERIENCE with the equipment in question, then those OPINIONS will often lead to purchases of items which they didn't really plan on getting any way which in turn equals wasted money.

Monster Dre Beats are clearly aimed at the mass market and not audiophiles. How can I sit here and say that? Because let's look at this, with recommendations for HD600s and HD650s and even Sony V6s (which by the way, are truly not suitable for musicality, which is what many are looking for, good quality musical headphones, not analytical ones for which is more suitable for monitoring use), THOSE are audiophile quality which in reality are really STUDIO quality. HD600s and HD650s in NO WAY sound that good running straight from a portable source.

Monetarily speaking, the phones you feel are of better quality and more bang for the buck in turn will cost more in the end and also be more of a hassle than the more complete package of a pair of Beats. Your view on active noise cancellation is relatively biased if you really come down to it. It's a bit arrogant as well. When it comes down to it, what you feel is better bang for the buck in the end results in MORE money spent with not much gain in quality.

I am a 110% for people making decisions but this thread clearly started with some asking if for $200 the Beats are a good choice thus the OP wanted our views on this. Now, views on this without experience will boil down to pure opinion, audio equipment as you and myself should understand, is not a matter of opinion. Yes, when you have items of same quality and are EQUALS then yes, preferences will play a part in final decision but this thread started out asking for a more technical (for lack of a better word) assessment and NOT simply OPINIONS.

You are also right that most people are not able to have EXTENSIVE auditions with equipment THUS IS THE REASON THEY ASK PEOPLE ON THESE BOARDS FOR THEIR VIEWS! Now, of course they ask people on these boards with the assumption that they have SOLID KNOWLEDGE of the subject (in this case, solid knowledge would be folks who have either own, owned, or have had extensive play with the Beats as well as other phones, but of course a prerequisite should be extensive play with the product in question).

Look Stevesabastianb, if you still don't understand that I'm not trying to attack you here and you still don't understand my points, then there's no point in me trying to explain further as in the end you are basically just being adamant about wanting your view to be "right" and this is becoming more of a ego argument at this point. I'm trying to take the "opinion" out of all this and just stick with facts.

 

[dookiex]

As for headphones I've reviewed, I don't. No need, there's so many reviews of the phones I have it will just be a waste of space. Now, giving my experience with the equipment I have, that I do. Just look through my previous posts if you want to.

Also just to add, there's a reason so many of us have the same equipment as others at one point or the other, it's because we have come on these boards, read about them, and then went out to buy them. I would have to admit, personally, I've bought quite a number of phones which I then have never really used because they were not up to expectations even though I bought them based on the views of others on these boards, I'm obviously not alone in this.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookiex /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for headphones I've reviewed, I don't. No need, there's so many reviews of the phones I have it will just be a waste of space. Now, giving my experience with the equipment I have, that I do. Just look through my previous posts if you want to. Also just to add, there's a reason so many of us have the same equipment as others at one point or the other, it's because we have come on these boards, read about them, and then went out to buy them. I would have to admit, personally, I've bought quite a number of phones which I then have never really used because they were not up to expectations even though I bought them based on the views of others on these boards, I'm obviously not alone in this.

I can see that it is pointless to carry on banter with such a narrow and closed mind, I let you carry on and waste your own space just don't try and be a control freak because that is exactly what you are by telling people they should not post or discuss an issue.

Yes we all read the boards, but we are not all "sheep" and follow the flock, maybe you might jump on and follow general trends, but I don't and do excercise the grey matter which you do not seem think is necessary. Yes you are not alone and nether and am I, don't be so full of yourself. Only words on a screen. I bid you good day and hope that we do not bump in to each other here or anywhere else as I really do not want to enter into such meaningless chatter.