[svyr]

LOL pipe down.  Please provide links or quotes to these specs for all of our benefit.  It is perfectly reasonable for us to expect cable manufacturers to publish data for USB cables FURTHER than a mere description of the construction and some vague and misleading talk bout dielectric capacitance, conductor cross section etc.  Regardless any self respecting audio USB cable is designed to reduce jitter, and this can be measured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter.  Yes there is plenty of useless information on cable boxes, I agree.
 
The only scope for "synergistic similarities" as you so succinctly refer to is highly tenuous in digital cables, and likely the result of poor logic and an absence of technical understanding or methodological rigor in study of the given technologies.  I have read several "white papers" and to be honest most of them are not up to academic or profession standards.  Some USB cable seem to "talk the talk" in terms of expressing an aim to reduce jitter, but then they usually don't back this up with meaningful data, especially comparing across their own product line.  This makes comparison of performance very difficult until someone applies a strandardised testing methodology that produces empirically comparable data.
 
What is untenable is to expect one person to buy EVERY single USB cable on the market and test it with EVERY singly usb interface by ear withing a single given lifetime, while holding a job and raising a family and maintaining sanity.  Compared to this some oscilloscope measurements of jitter looks dead easy for someone like Tyll to do.
 
I am willing to try a USB cable, but if it doesn't work, I am out of pocket by a MINIMUM of $80 unless I can source one of these cables locally.  Tell you what I will try one if I can find a decently designed cable sold locally (chances of this seem slim.) 

 
 

http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=80&Itemid=53

is that what you were looking for?

$6,799.00 Locus Design Cynosure USB Cable (6m) lololololol

 

[MrProggie]

Quote:

Quote:

LOL pipe down.  Please provide links or quotes to these specs for all of our benefit.  It is perfectly reasonable for us to expect cable manufacturers to publish data for USB cables FURTHER than a mere description of the construction and some vague and misleading talk bout dielectric capacitance, conductor cross section etc.  Regardless any self respecting audio USB cable is designed to reduce jitter, and this can be measured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter.  Yes there is plenty of useless information on cable boxes, I agree.
 
The only scope for "synergistic similarities" as you so succinctly refer to is highly tenuous in digital cables, and likely the result of poor logic and an absence of technical understanding or methodological rigor in study of the given technologies.  I have read several "white papers" and to be honest most of them are not up to academic or profession standards.  Some USB cable seem to "talk the talk" in terms of expressing an aim to reduce jitter, but then they usually don't back this up with meaningful data, especially comparing across their own product line.  This makes comparison of performance very difficult until someone applies a strandardised testing methodology that produces empirically comparable data.
 
What is untenable is to expect one person to buy EVERY single USB cable on the market and test it with EVERY singly usb interface by ear withing a single given lifetime, while holding a job and raising a family and maintaining sanity.  Compared to this some oscilloscope measurements of jitter looks dead easy for someone like Tyll to do.
 
I am willing to try a USB cable, but if it doesn't work, I am out of pocket by a MINIMUM of $80 unless I can source one of these cables locally.  Tell you what I will try one if I can find a decently designed cable sold locally (chances of this seem slim.) 

 
 

http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=80&Itemid=53

is that what you were looking for?

$6,799.00 Locus Design Cynosure USB Cable (6m) lololololol

 
They're cryogenically treated...
 
So I guess they're fantastic, especially in the mid range which is gorgeous according to a reviewer. 

 
 

 

[pro555]

What is the point to get expensive USB cable when the USB connecters on your computer, the cable between the mother board and the connecter, the USB circuit in your mother board are just made of bare copper? Can Hyundai run faster than Ferrari with best tires? People who make sliver USB cables should also make silver mother board, CPU and USB controller chip, and they all should be "Hi-Fi" treated.

 

[milosz]

I've done blind A/B testing of USB cables. I did the listening myself, and also used a sample of other listeners which included some professional musicians and two "golden ear" guys who claimed for sure they would be able to hear the difference between a 1 meter generic USB cable and a "good" USB cable. They brought their own favorite cables and one brought a cable he thought sounded bad.
 
None of my listeners was able to tell which cable was in use with reliability higher than 50%, which is to say, none of them could hear any audible differences.
 
Try it yourself.  Must be done BLIND, however. You can't know which cable is in use.  If you do, the test isn't valid.

 

[DaBomb77766]

milosz, you should relocate that post to the post in the sound science board.  You're not allowed to talk about the results of blind tests here.

 

[svyr]

milosz, you should relocate that post to the post in the sound science board.  You're not allowed to talk about the results of blind tests here.

technically, he can't talk about DBT, not BT see wiki what the difference is. (pretty sure D= if he wrapped the cables in tape and neither he nor the people switching them knew)

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

Quote:

milosz, you should relocate that post to the post in the sound science board.  You're not allowed to talk about the results of blind tests here.

technically, he can't talk about DBT, not BT

see wiki what the difference is. (pretty sure D= if he wrapped the cables in tape and neither he nor the people switching them knew)

I know that there's a difference...but do they really distinguish between the two here?  I guess we'll leave that for the mods to decide.

 

[vandaven]

No need for a double blind test. 
 
Recently, I invested in a usb audio interface that is (among other things) built for audio measurements, and also tested this unit with 2 different usb cables. Signal flow for the measurements is Mac Pro -> USB -> DAC -> internal analog connection -> ADC -> USB -> Mac Pro. The resulting impulse response is a deconvolution from a 2 second sine sweep from 1 Hz to Nyquist, measured at 192 kHz 24 bit. 
 
Unfortunately, I can't upload images at the moment, so you'll have to use the links I have provided:
 
These two cables were tested.
 
Impulse response cable A.
 
Impulse response cable B. 
 
Have fun.
 
 
 
 

 

[Willakan]

Can't say I'm even slightly surprised.

 

[vandaven]

Quote:

Can't say I'm even slightly surprised.

I am quite surprised by the performance of the audio interface, please mind this is DA-AD (analog out to analog in). I may need to add that the deconvolution is normalized.
 
 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

I am quite surprised by the performance of the audio interface, please mind this is DA-AD (analog out to analog in). I may need to add that the deconvolution is normalized.
 
 

Wow, that's actually been converted to analog and back?  That's quite impressive.  Have you done any other tests to post up yet?
 
Also, maybe you should actually review that piece of equipment if it's really that good.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Hennyo, why do you feel the need to repeatedly tell us that USB cables make a difference to sound quality? We know that they do, the question is why.
 
Currawong, I have a reasonable idea how a DAC works. I welcome more measurements on USB cables and if it shown different cables react differently to different DACs we will learn more on the subject.
 
Vandaven, I take it your measurements show that the different USBs performed exactly the same.

 

[vandaven]

Quote:

Vandaven, I take it your measurements show that the different USBs performed exactly the same.

Yep. They are. And this is the third USB audio device that I measured. I wonder what esoteric DAC designs may exist, because on all of the ones I tested, it doesn't make a difference. And yes, the Audioquest Cinnamon I used definitely shows less resistance than the stock USB, but in "my" digital world, this difference seems to be insignificant. 
 
And again, I might want to add that IF you hear a difference between USB cables this difference can be measured. It's a simple, controlled system and not voodoo.
 
When doing their own measurements, people should mind that USB audio (in general, at least on the Mac) is a tricky beast unless you work with ASIO drivers or on Pro Tools 9. Sometimes (buffer) latency varies extremely. What is important is to make enough measurements of both cables to achieve a base value and thus validity in regards to a possible deviation in sound quality. 
 
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Yep. They are. And this is the third USB audio device that I measured. I wonder what esoteric DAC designs may exist, because on all of the ones I tested, it doesn't make a difference. And yes, the Audioquest Cinnamon I used definitely shows less resistance than the stock USB, but in "my" digital world, this difference seems to be insignificant. 
 
And again, I might want to add that IF you hear a difference between USB cables this difference can be measured. It's a simple, controlled system and not voodoo.
 
When doing their own measurements, people should mind that USB audio (in general, at least on the Mac) is a tricky beast unless you work with ASIO drivers or on Pro Tools 9. Sometimes (buffer) latency varies extremely. What is important is to make enough measurements of both cables to achieve a base value and thus validity in regards to a possible deviation in sound quality. 
 
 

But, if the difference in sound quality is down to hype, placebo and other reasons within the listener, not the cable, there will be no measureable difference.
 

 

[kr0gg]

Quote:

No need for a double blind test. 
 
Recently, I invested in a usb audio interface that is (among other things) built for audio measurements, and also tested this unit with 2 different usb cables. Signal flow for the measurements is Mac Pro -> USB -> DAC -> internal analog connection -> ADC -> USB -> Mac Pro. The resulting impulse response is a deconvolution from a 2 second sine sweep from 1 Hz to Nyquist, measured at 192 kHz 24 bit. 
 
Unfortunately, I can't upload images at the moment, so you'll have to use the links I have provided:
 
These two cables were tested.
 
Impulse response cable A.
 
Impulse response cable B. 
 
Have fun.
 
 
 
 

your results actually differ.
i guess that proves that USB cables are not the same?