[uelover]

Quote:

Just give me a couple of days. I'll build you what you want.
 
Any color preferences?

Diamond cladded ones look good. I can wear them around my neck. Said to improve SQ through extensive EM rejection =)

 

[DaBomb77766]

The day that someone buys and says they can tell the difference between an "audiophile" SATA cable and a standard one is the day I leave the audiophile community.

 

[tmars78]

Quote:

The day that someone buys and says they can tell the difference between an "audiophile" SATA cable and a standard one is the day I leave the audiophile community.

 
 
Bye...I hardly even knew you. 

 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2534
 
And here, the same guy says it again:
 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2495#comments
 
 
 
ETA: I think Mr. Steward is an idiot. 
 
. 

 

[svyr]

The difference is extremely minimal. Any of these "micro" differences is probably induced by the tolerance of the analog circuitry. Please mind the signal is DA-AD and passes through the analog domain. There is a lot of (pro) gear out there which won't give you such a clear "matching" result on 2 measurements, even when taken under identical circumstances.
 
 

m, looks most likely to be a conversion/measurement artifact. Anything audible would have to be a lot larger differences anyway, unlike what

>at first (during a LOT of forum pages) you decline that there is ANY difference at all, and when finally you yourself discover one, you refuse to see it i wouldn't call that a scientific approach (as you try to make us belive it is). i would call that a "cable-nihilism"


says

 

[DemonicLemming]

Hah, I didn't read the whole thing, but I bet that got some "interesting" responses from the arf-commers.
 
Course, if LaRue came out with an optics mount that promised fewer FTEs, it would be the new trend of the month over there.  Every community has its manias.
 
Quote:

 
 
Bye...I hardly even knew you. 

 
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1080432
 
 
And here, the same guy says it again:
 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2495#comments
 
 
Original one has been removed....for obvious reasons. 

 
 

 

[n3rdling]

Quote:

This guy makes my day everytime.
/putting words into other peoples mouths, as usual.

You're the person that keeps assuming that everybody who has posted saying they don't believe in USB cables has "never tried it themselves".  You've been wrong everytime.

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

 
 
Bye...I hardly even knew you. 

 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2534
 
And here, the same guy says it again:
 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2495#comments
 
 
 
ETA: I think Mr. Steward is an idiot. 
 
. 

...okay, I'll admit, that was just an empty threat, I actually had faith in humanity for a moment there.

 

[justanut]

Jena Copper Firewire 800 cables with gold plated plugs? I like my sound to be warmer and detailed 

 
Its a joke in case no one realised >..<

 
Quote:

Just give me a couple of days. I'll build you what you want.
 
Any color preferences?
 
 

 

 

[justanut]

All meant to be mildly sarcastic and maybe invoke some food for thought...
 
Mmm don't DACs come with error correction built into the USB protocol? It can't be that we're paying good money for something that can't even do that? Will better cables do error correction for us or prevent errors? Those high end cables cost more than a netbook which doesn't require such high grade USB cables to effectively transfer my data from one USB end to the other >..<
 
This is all so confusing and smells...
 
Quote:

Hmm describing the improvement in sound about a certain area and then asking the listener to listen for it might introduce the potential effect of placebo upon a listener =)
 
Up till the point of the USB module on your motherboard, everything has digital error correction so there is no need for 'good' or 'snake-oil' cables used in between.

 

 

[uelover]

Quote:

Mmm don't DACs come with error correction built into the USB protocol? It can't be that we're paying good money for something that can't even do that?

I think it has been mentioned many times in this thread that there is no error correction for USB audio because it is different from other USB appliances.
 
Question in this thread is: Is 'good' USB cable capable of reducing the errors and whether that will lead to an audible increase in SQ.

 

[drez]

problem appears the same conundrum as believing in ghosts and UFO's.  Many people say they exist but nobody can prove it.
 
If a magician fools you into thinking his tricks are real, they probably are to those who witness this trick, or shared the common experience of being tricked.  But this is not my creed anyway.
 
I would not mind paying for a cable if it is proven to reduce distortion beyond mere speculation and marketing claims.  Problem is currently I am reliant upon the questionable opinion of others in choosing a USB cable.
 
IT seems to be the case that those who think USB cables work cant explain it, and those that believe they can explain how they might work don't seem to think they would, yet some still concede it might be theoretically possible in certain specific cases [to reduce jitter].
 
To me only a few cables which have some semblance of logic, but even then they are appear not to be up to my ideal level of design rigor, both theoretical and methodological, at leas from they publish on the web.
 
Say for example, impedance matching in digital coax is now a given, yet only a handful of cable builders apply this approach to USB and then only on expensive models, and even then don't explain how and why this would be effective to any respectable degree, thus why academics [rightly] mock them.
 
Maybe DIY is the only way to find a decent cable?
 
Am i repeating myself also 

 

[svyr]

>It can't be that we're paying good money for something that can't even do that?

and yet you are.


>Will better cables do error correction for us or prevent errors?

no, very unlikely unless your stock cable is not to spec.


>I think it has been mentioned many times in this thread that there is no error correction for USB audio because it is different from other USB appliances.

that's correct. USB audio devices generally use isochronous async, sync or adaptive endpoints. While they can detect errors by calculating checksums, NONE of those have error correction or retransmission on error. The decision was originally motivated by usb audio needing guaranteed latency/bandwidth, but for playback it really doesn't matter it seems.(especially for class 2 usb audio devices on USB 2.0 buses and with no other devices sitting on that internal usb hub port)

'Isochronous pipe: These pipes are intended for isochronous data, for example video or audio streams, with fixed latency/and guaranteed bandwidth, but no guaranteed delivery. Isochronous packets are however not retried in case of failed delivery or NAK of a packet as this might violate the timing constraints.'

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb4.shtml (this mirrors the usb spec details but is a bit easier to read)


The only DACs that DO have error correction are the ones transferring the data in bulk mode. Where the data is sent to the custom bus driver/retransmitted on error (that's actually the cypress USB chip and then from there in I2S to the DAC chip (musilol is the only one I know of, but there are probably 1-2 more).

>Those high end cables cost more than a netbook which doesn't require such high grade USB cables to effectively transfer my data from one USB end to the other >..<

like the bulk transfer mode audio cards mentioned above, USB devices like hard drives also use bulk mode (w error detection and correction) and don't worry about cables unless you're using a not-to-spec coathanger.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

 
 
Bye...I hardly even knew you. 

 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2534
 
And here, the same guy says it again:
 
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2495#comments
 
 
 
ETA: I think Mr. Steward is an idiot. 
 
. 

Those links are shocking. It really is very difficult to have a proper evidenced discussion about cables, but to get a death threat??????!!!!
 
At least here we have had Vandaven's superb contribution showing that any difference between USB cables is minor, so minor it is beyond all reasonable doubt that they make a difference to sound quality. We know beyond all reasonable doubt that cable hype, placebo, buyer justification are very good reasons as to why people hear a difference in USB (and any other) cable.
 
So with this thread and how the two sides of the deabte have conducted themseleves and the evidence they have brought forwards, I am now even more certain than before that no cable inherantly, by its construction makes a difference in hifi. It is all in the listeners mind.

 

[svyr]

Those links are shocking. It really is very difficult to have a proper evidenced discussion about cables, but to get a death threat??????!!!!

If someone believes you can transfer data in bulk mode with full error detection and retransmission on errors (and/or error recovery mechanisms) and a cable affects sound they kinda.... Well, at least sterilization...

 

[justanut]

Awesome replies svyr! Thanks for the effort taken! Thats what I love about open discussions... I get to learn stuff I'm otherwise too lazy to find out myself haha!
 
And I totally agree that USB cables are NOT the answer to error correction/prevention. So what effect do they have, if any at all? Seems that there have been conclusions drawn by Prog that they do nothing more than the $10 well built USB cable, and I'm really inclined to believe so.
 
But still, I'm keeping an open-mind for the sake of the other 50% who say otherwise and eagerly await their presentation of scientific proof
 
"Does a tree make any noise when it falls when there's no one else (or recording device haha!) in the forest?" 

 
Quote:

>It can't be that we're paying good money for something that can't even do that?

and yet you are.


>Will better cables do error correction for us or prevent errors?

no, very unlikely unless your stock cable is not to spec.


>I think it has been mentioned many times in this thread that there is no error correction for USB audio because it is different from other USB appliances.