[dvw]

Quote:

Gold is 24% less conductive than copper.... Only used in electronics because there's no rusting or tarnish.. It is effective at preserving contact integrity, and the gold plating is ludocrisly cheap. Your fears should not be any threat to electronics manufacturers for a couple more thousands of dollars/once. Gold plating is that cheap to use.
Have you ever seen an electronic employ gold wiring?

 
You/I probably never will.

Yes and plenty. Most silicon chip are wired to their package with gold wire. I am in the middle of qualifying copper wire to replace gold wire. The concern is not conductivity but more for reliability. How well does copper wire stay on? With silicon manufacturing, wire are not soldered but thermally bonded. There are a lot of silicon already converted to copper wiring. So in theory someone will be able to tell their amp or DAC are made from copper or gold if material makes a different in sound even in digital connection.
 
 

 

[vandaven]

Quote:

You guys are confusing analog wave xfer with digital data xfer I think... anyway... 

 
Yep. Unfortunately, it seems that some folks here use all of those audio-equipment-related terms (like THD, analog, digital, jitter etc. plus my personal favorite, "resolving") without really understanding what it means. 

 

[Hennyo]

Quote:

 even in digital connection.
 
 

DDD ^_^ (couldn't help it)
 
Not gold wiring to the chip. I'm pretty sure it's all plated contacts...
 

 

[drez]

the "science" behind many higher end usb (and other) cables just isn't proven, and most of the time is actually WAY off any academic standards.  Correct me if I'm wrong but NONE of the cable manufacturer white papers I have found are peer reviewed, or even to academic standards, and many of claimed technical aspects of the cables have absolutely no scientific or technical credence (or are grossly misrepresented/taken out of context).  It just makes for bad and unreliable development process, and it is hardly ever tested enough, either by the manufacturers OR the consumers to prove actual performance either way.
 
If manufacturers want to say "our cable has magical powers" and charge $2000 for it, fine, be my guest.  BUT if a manufacturer wants to claim technical and scientific things about their products, it better be fully documented and face up to the scrutiny of engineers and scientists.
 
There are many technical reasons why audiophile USB cables COULD work, but unfortunately far too many appear to have not been tested properly, or are abandoned altogether in favor of voodoo science by cable companies.  I am equally sure that some cables, expensive or not, are better than others, bus seeing as I don't have the equipment or technical knowledge to test them reliable, I'm not going to be the person to find out.
 
BTW I am speaking purely in terms of application of scientific theory (Physics).

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

the "science" behind many higher end usb (and other) cables just isn't proven, and most of the time is actually WAY off any academic standards.  Correct me if I'm wrong but NONE of the cable manufacturer white papers I have found are peer reviewed, or even to academic standards, and many of claimed technical aspects of the cables have absolutely no scientific or technical credence (or are grossly misrepresented/taken out of context).  It just makes for bad and unreliable development process, and it is hardly ever tested enough, either by the manufacturers OR the consumers to prove actual performance either way.
 
If manufacturers want to say "our cable has magical powers" and charge $2000 for it, fine, be my guest.  BUT if a manufacturer wants to claim technical and scientific things about their products, it better be fully documented and face up to the scrutiny of engineers and scientists.
 
There are many technical reasons why audiophile USB cables COULD work, but unfortunately far too many appear to have not been tested properly, or are abandoned altogether in favor of voodoo science by cable companies.  I am equally sure that some cables, expensive or not, are better than others, bus seeing as I don't have the equipment or technical knowledge to test them reliable, I'm not going to be the person to find out.
 
BTW I am speaking purely in terms of application of scientific theory (Physics).

As opposed to pseudoscience?  Physics can explain nearly any phenomena we know of on Earth...I doubt that there are any phenomena that are detectable by our human senses that have not been thoroughly explained already.  Which is why I'm so skeptical about the mythological benefit of audiophile USB cables.
 
But who knows, science should always be approached with an open mind.  But it doesn't mean you should pass absolutely everything that doesn't fit off as an undiscovered phenomenon before doing proper tests.

 

[svyr]

>As opposed to pseudoscience? Physics can explain nearly any phenomena we know of on Earth...I doubt that there are any phenomena that are detectable by our human senses that have not been thoroughly explained already. Which is why I'm so skeptical about the mythological benefit of audiophile USB cables.

lol, he means as opposed to someone reading a physics|electronics textbook, not understanding any of it, borrowing the terminology/misinterpreting what they read and writing a bs marketing description.


>But who knows, science should always be approached with an open mind.

By someone who can measure it (and/or test people being able to tell the difference) and then people don't have to buy it to sponsor the 'omgjusttryit'(to what, see you're susceptible to placebo effect and biases?) theory and audio cable makers with ridiculous profits on each cable

 

[drez]

Quote:

 
But who knows, science should always be approached with an open mind.  But it doesn't mean you should pass absolutely everything that doesn't fit off as an undiscovered phenomenon before doing proper tests.

My point is that the technological claims made by cable manufacturers are usually unproven, if not completely misapplied and lacking in rigorous logic and research.  Being published by the manufacturers they are almost always completely biased and one sided.  I have an open mind enough to read white papers and marketing material from cable manufacturers, but my trust tends to diminish when the technical claims they make appear not to be backed up by proper research methodology.  It's not like the engineers they employ, if they actually do employ any, have anything better to do with their time.
 
Isaac Newton, as you may know, spend much of his life researching and developing theories of alchemy.  Needless to say this body of work didn't get him anywhere, we don't know Newton as an alchemist do we.
 
From the look of most of the cable literature I have seen, cable manufacturers are employing alchemists, not engineers. This is not good enough for me to fork out $400+ on a product that has not been proven to work, or even to be designed based on proper science.
 
I know plenty of people who will pay thousands of dollars for unproven traditional medicines.  I don't blame them if they are dying of cancer, but what if all they have is a common cold?  What if they merely want to lose some weight?
 
There is a sound scientific basis for using continuous 75 ohm digital interconnects due to signal reflections: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/sdya014/sdya014.pdf.  Beyond that its all speculation and alchemy as far as I can tell, and I wouldn't spend a cent on it.

 

[justanut]

Now that makes more sense... and now I understand why Cardas USB cables say "optimized for constant transfer impedance rather than a full wave characteristic impedance". Thanks for the interesting link~ although I couldn't understand half of it haha...

 

[vandaven]

I think within this discussion, we don't even have to go as far as leveling things up to *astrophysics*, because everything in the digital realm is happening in a controlled environment. 
No matter what ADC was used for the recording, no matter what DAC is used for the transfer back to analog - what is happening in between, as long as there is no signal processing involved, you have the same 44100 samples per seconds with an (information) word length of 16 bits, or 48000 samples 24 bit. It's controlled information within a finite system. 
 
It's not that esoteric after all.
 
And to transport that certain information, any cable that is up to the USB standard is fine. Maybe those expensive cables would make a difference if they would be used for the transfer of (infinite resolution) analog information. That's a completely different realm, because, again, the information is of infinite resolution. 
 
What happens to the USB steam information AFTER it arrived at the DAC is also a completely different story. There, the mysticism begins. For example, I just read an article on the intentional implementation of jitter on the analog outs (and, for the record, that's ONLY analog outs and not on the digital outs) of the Antelope Zodiac DAC to make the signal less "predictable" and more "analog" to the human hearing. But alas, it has NOTHING to do with the USB cable. 
 

 

[Donnyhifi]

Hello all,
 
I thought all this USB cable discussion discussion was hogwash, its all BS and people who can hear the difference between the different grade of cables were on crack!(jk)

 
But in all seriousness I didn't think there would be any noticable difference between the cables provided it was well made.
 
I went to Dynamic Audio http://www.dynamicaudio.jp/ in Akihabara to pickup the Luxman DA-200 DAC/Headphone Amp that I had placed on order a couple weeks ago and the nice sales lady Sai asked me if I would like to try different USB cables. So at that point I was thinking, hmm, my bladder is about to burst from too much coffee and I better hit the can before I can make a subjective listen.
 
I returned from the loo and sat down and plugged in a pair of Grado RS1i's and listened to the Furutech cable. The Furutech sounded quality good with sparkly highs good soundstage but with a little bit of sibilance, I figured it sounds good, its cheap(less than $100) and I might as well pickup a pair of Furutechs.
She then got me to try out the Red Wireworld Starlight which I've heard lots about, after about 10 seconds of listening I couldn't believe my ears!

The Starlight had better chemistry with the RS1, the sibilance was gone with the highs still airy with a more spread out soundstage and overall fuller sound. I also tried another brand which was more expensive and though it sounded good I thought that the Starlight sounded the best.
 
I have walked away changing my mindset from being a non believer to ordering a pair of Starlight USB cables.
 
There definitely is a difference but its not the level of difference you get from changing headphones or amplifiers, its more subtle but its there.
 
I still don't believe in Power Cords!

Maybe one day I will A B some demo power cords when I get the time for it.
 
 
 

 

[svyr]

Hello all,
 
I thought all this USB cable discussion discussion was hogwash, its all BS and people who can hear the difference between the different grade of cables were on crack!(jk)

 
But in all seriousness I didn't think there would be any noticable difference between the cables provided it was well made.
 
I went to Dynamic Audio http://www.dynamicaudio.jp/ in Akihabara to pickup the Luxman DA-200 DAC/Headphone Amp that I had placed on order a couple weeks ago and the nice sales lady Sai asked me if I would like to try different USB cables. So at that point I was thinking, hmm, my bladder is about to burst from too much coffee and I better hit the can before I can make a subjective listen.
 
I returned from the loo and sat down and plugged in a pair of Grado RS1i's and listened to the Furutech cable. The Furutech sounded quality good with sparkly highs good soundstage but with a little bit of sibilance, I figured it sounds good, its cheap(less than $100) and I might as well pickup a pair of Furutechs.
She then got me to try out the Red Wireworld Starlight which I've heard lots about, after about 10 seconds of listening I couldn't believe my ears!

The Starlight had better chemistry with the RS1, the sibilance was gone with the highs still airy with a more spread out soundstage and overall fuller sound. I also tried another brand which was more expensive and though it sounded good I thought that the Starlight sounded the best.
 
I have walked away changing my mindset from being a non believer to ordering a pair of Starlight USB cables.
 
There definitely is a difference but its not the level of difference you get from changing headphones or amplifiers, its more subtle but its there.
 
I still don't believe in Power Cords!

Maybe one day I will A B some demo power cords when I get the time for it.
 
 
 

might be time to start believing in the 'Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) ' instead
Chances are, given a pretty power cord vs that flaky looking black one, you're going to think the pretty one is better when you look at them, know the price and consider them side by side with full knowledge of what's connected.

 

[uelover]

Quote:

Hello all,
 
I thought all this USB cable discussion discussion was hogwash, its all BS and people who can hear the difference between the different grade of cables were on crack!(jk)

 
But in all seriousness I didn't think there would be any noticable difference between the cables provided it was well made.
 
I went to Dynamic Audio http://www.dynamicaudio.jp/ in Akihabara to pickup the Luxman DA-200 DAC/Headphone Amp that I had placed on order a couple weeks ago and the nice sales lady Sai asked me if I would like to try different USB cables. So at that point I was thinking, hmm, my bladder is about to burst from too much coffee and I better hit the can before I can make a subjective listen.
 
I returned from the loo and sat down and plugged in a pair of Grado RS1i's and listened to the Furutech cable. The Furutech sounded quality good with sparkly highs good soundstage but with a little bit of sibilance, I figured it sounds good, its cheap(less than $100) and I might as well pickup a pair of Furutechs.
She then got me to try out the Red Wireworld Starlight which I've heard lots about, after about 10 seconds of listening I couldn't believe my ears!

The Starlight had better chemistry with the RS1, the sibilance was gone with the highs still airy with a more spread out soundstage and overall fuller sound. I also tried another brand which was more expensive and though it sounded good I thought that the Starlight sounded the best.
 
I have walked away changing my mindset from being a non believer to ordering a pair of Starlight USB cables.
 
There definitely is a difference but its not the level of difference you get from changing headphones or amplifiers, its more subtle but its there.
 
I still don't believe in Power Cords!

Maybe one day I will A B some demo power cords when I get the time for it.
 
 
 

Hey Donny,
 
Nice to see you here! I think that I have been to Dynamic Audio before but I never knew they had USB cables ready for audition.
 

 

[Donnyhifi]

Hey UElover,
 
Good to see you here too! They have a laptop on-hand with audio all loaded up and ready to go, they have a pretty sweet setup there, very nice!
 
svyr,
 
I actually ended up selecting the less pretty USB cable, I thought the Starlight sounds the best.

I just don't believe the Power Cord stuff because there is lots of crappy wiring in between the power plant and wall socket, I can't see how the last 6 feet matters as long as its of descent quality. I use heavy duty server power cables which I've picked up from the office, I think that is good enough.
 

 

[kr0gg]

Donny, which one did you get?

 

[endless402]

Quote:

Hey Donny,
 
Nice to see you here! I think that I have been to Dynamic Audio before but I never knew they had USB cables ready for audition.
 

if you're in japan, you have access to a great selection of usb cables
 
try out acoustic revive as well (the 2 usb to 1 usb connector, separating power and data). super detailed but doesnt have the warmth.
i settled on oyaide S+ as the best blend of midrange and detail (less than acoustic revive).
 
all comes down to component matching in the end