[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's an amp & source thing. The hd650 can be a very boring phone if they are fed by a "boring" source. You need quality ss equipment to give them prat. And synergy, an expensive amp doesn't automatically make them sing.

With a lively TDA1541 DAC and a "Sonic Exciter" in my system, i should hope its not boring...

Seriously though, I know it isnt boring because out of my speakers it sounds extremely lively and engaging. I've had these speakers long enough to know that it isnt them injecting the all of the fun, even if they do contribute rather a lot.

I see the same old stuff dished out about the Senns on here. Give them an impossibly expensive, synergistic system and they will sing. In other words, that means give them a system that cancels out its shortcomings. If you are going to spend that much on a system, why would you buy what are, lets face it, relatively cheap cans (HD650) ?

I simply dont believe that I have tried my best to like these headphones, and tried my best to adapt my system for them, but the fact is, they are second best to a pair of loudspeakers that I shelled out considerably less money for.

No amount of excuses on the Senns behalf is going to make me believe that their shortcomings are somehow to be blamed on the electronics driving them. I believe if you listen to acoustic or classic music on a relatively forward system they are in their elements, but ask them to do rock or electronic and to my ears they fall short by virtue of being FAR too cautious / polite.

 

[MaloS]

Meh...don't feel like responding one at a time or avoiding redundancy, so I am just going to put a short simple summary of HD650:

To get HD650 to show itself you need a powerful well designed amplifier that will do either balanced or push-pull operation. The increased control of that operation will resolve the issues associated with the slow driver and help resolve weakened treble. When driven with such amplification the headphone becomes phenomenal, very PRAT-capable, definitely not boring (although smooth and inoffensive in treble). It IS a night-and-day difference.

Problem is - this is expensive, and if you can't believe that driving it that way will help, then you should look for an easy to drive headphone with good virtues for trance - say AD2000 or one of the Ultrasones. Well-driven HD650 will slay either one, and will overrun your speakers in alot of regards (although visceral effect is going to remain a speaker virtue). But for the 2 grand such HD650 setup will cost you - ... it better be good.


With regards to people saying that amps that are recommended for HD650 that are fixing HD650 problems by being brighter and such - no, that is not really the case. You can achieve various sound sigs with a balanced HD650 setup, and none will be plagued by the veiling and slowness.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It's your amp.

I was on the verge of selling the HD-650 until I heard it with the Zana Deux. The low end tightened up and it got a hell of a lot faster. It and the HD-600 are like different headphones now. They almost sound electrostatic. The Beta22, Dynamight, and other amps with hair on their chests do the same. If you want to pull a railcar with a VW Bug, go right ahead, but don't piss and whine because the railcar is too heavy.

If you think amps are all the same, look at the stats on them. You'll see different power output, different output impedance, different slew rates, and a host of differences. Those matter. Big time. Not so much with Grados and Audio Technicas, which are easily driven. But if you want to play with Sennheisers and AKGs, yeah, you need a good amp.

Look around to see if there are any Head-Fi'ers in your area who might have a good amp and take a listen.

 

[fld777]

Does 650/600 come alive with any of Mikael's Single Power Amps ?

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fld777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does 650/600 come alive with any of Mikael's Single Power Amps ?

One word answer - yes.

More elaborate - the particular tonality may be not your cup of tea.

 

[M0T0XGUY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I may try an SR-325i this week and see if i like it. It makes more sense to me. I can throw more money at the Senn's, and I will no doubt get more of the same. But thats not what I want. The SR-325i will probably be less demanding of my amplification, assuming that is a contributory factor (the odd review i've seen suggests its a decent amp), and will give the extra speed and clarity i feel i am missing. We shall see...

Why don't you just find a Hi-Fi store in your area that stocks all Grado models for auditioning? Judging from your dislike of the DT-880's, I have serious doubts that the SR-325i's will impress you on a sonic level - they're even more peaky, and have less bass impact / presence - but I think SR-225's (or even RS-2's) will satisfy your desire for speed in a pair of headphones; and carry more bass slam / "oomph" than the DT-880's.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fld777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does 650/600 come alive with any of Mikael's Single Power Amps ?

I used the hd650 pretty much exclusively with the Singlepower PPX3 SLAM. A notable amp that has gotten praise on these boards multiple times for it's punch and dynamics. They sounded great, a great all rounder that has a very smooth sound. But it was still noticeably slower and darker than my other cans(Grado RS-1 and 325i, AKG K701, Sony SA5000, and Audio Technica W5000). It is the signature of the headphone. I still enjoyed them, I liked their laid back and darker sound as an alternative to my other cans. I did not find them veiled nor boring and although they do not have the sparkly highs of the others, I also thought they did fine there.

Of course a more dynamic amp will make them faster/livelier, but they will still be slower/darker than other cans with the same amp. That will never change. They will never be as fast or bright as the w5000, sa5000, k701, etc. no matter what amp you are using them with.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM324 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree the K340 are fast but very picky regarding amplification.

True.. But even balanced using my DAC1 they sound fantastic. If I heard them threw a proper amp they might become my favorite headphone that I own..

 

[snoop_005]

HD650 needs a proper amp to drive or they tend to sound dull.

 

[Cosmom3]

You guys have turned my excitement into my previously hopeful investment into the HD-650's into mush.

Thanks.

So lost, even after months of reading.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fld777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does 650/600 come alive with any of Mikael's Single Power Amps ?

I have such a lust for a PPX3 Slam after I heard one. Its my next planned purchase. It just fills the phones with sound. I have heard quality on the HD650, but nothing that sounded so full yet with the HD650 including balanced through beta-22, Stello HP100, and the woo audio 6 (although it did sound very wonderful with all of these). These cans are slower and darker. I prefer that sound for my long term listening sessions. Grado is a great can for aggressive excitement. I still have not heard of the perfect phone for techno etc. Ultrasone ED9 have a good reputation, but at the price... I stick with the UE11 even though they cannot be compared to a full sized. I like the headtrip with the psytrance.

 

[shigzeo]

i don't have much to offer you mate but this: i love the dt880 for trance for a couple of reasons: fast and transcient. other than that it creates a space, the club. i tried trance with grado phones and felt that i was like a mic near the turntable, not in the crowd dancing.

but then, i like soundstage in trance and want to be dancing with the hotties rather than watching the dj's every move. i have not heard the sony 5000 in good conditions, but it handled trance very very well. the room was noisy and i cannot right now comment reliably ont he sound of the bass. cheers

 

[Shahrose]

invest in an eq. turn up the high frequencies a bit. there's a certain portion of the high end spectrum, which, if boosted, adds the sensation of speed to a headphone. the other thing that adds speed is a powerful amp, to make the bass tight and transients quick, but since you already have that, all you're really lacking is that frequency adjustment.

 

[granodemostasa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's your amp. I was on the verge of selling the HD-650 until I heard it with the Zana Deux. The low end tightened up and it got a hell of a lot faster. It and the HD-600 are like different headphones now. They almost sound electrostatic. The Beta22, Dynamight, and other amps with hair on their chests do the same. If you want to pull a railcar with a VW Bug, go right ahead, but don't piss and whine because the railcar is too heavy. If you think amps are all the same, look at the stats on them. You'll see different power output, different output impedance, different slew rates, and a host of differences. Those matter. Big time. Not so much with Grados and Audio Technicas, which are easily driven. But if you want to play with Sennheisers and AKGs, yeah, you need a good amp. Look around to see if there are any Head-Fi'ers in your area who might have a good amp and take a listen.

This man speaks the truth!

 

[greggf]

"They almost sound electrostatic."

That was true with my Zana Deux.

The problem is - are the Senns supposed to sound electrostatic? Or is that a bastardization of their inherent sound?

Also, the question arises - why not, then, just buy an electrostatic headphone? Stax is still in business. And if the Stax sound tends toward the too lean, the modest Koss ESP unit is much bloomier.

I think a lot of the heroic - and expensive - "let's turn a Sennheiser into something that it isn't" effort is hobbiest-related - a way to find something to do, a way to futz around, a way to be a hobby modder?

I don't know. Help me out here.

I do know that the ZD (a device for futzing around with tubes as much as it is a device for reproducing sound) did incredible things to the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. I'm just not sure that those things make sense or are in any way music-related.

There can be an artificial sound to the Senn/ZD combo, like squeezing a pig until it squeals. You can do it, but why would you want to?