[pp312]

I've read conflicting opinions on this. My own opinion is that it doesn't, but after reading two comments in a row about recessed mids on the DT880 I thought I'd take a more critical listen, for which purpose I chose the following recording: Vaughan Williams, Symphony No 1 (Sea Symphony), London Philharmonic conducted by Adrian Boult. This is a 1969 recording but with very good sound. The reason I chose it, however, is that it includes both orchestra, choir, male & female soloists and sometimes all four together. In short, it's very demanding, and if there's a mid recess in a phone, this recording will surely highlight it.  
 
I'm not going to do a movement by movement review or anything like that (classical music haters can breathe out). Enough to report that I listened to this familiar recording (I've listened to it many times, for instance, through the HD650) very carefully, with the mid recess thing uppermost in my mind, and for the life of me I could only judge the sound as extremely well balanced in every way--left/right, back to front, treble to bass to mids. No, it wasn't quite as full frontal as the 650, but which was the more accurate would be a matter of conjecture, and indeed I found the 880 somewhat easier to listen to, which, so long as there's no loss of detail, is generally a sign of superior accuracy (since live music in a good hall or decent studio generally has very little listener fatigue--or at least classical music does).
 
So why is the 880 often criticised for recessed mids? As with so many subjective comments here I think it's a matter of what you're used to. Over the years I've found that less accurate phones often impart a false excitement to music which one quickly gets used to and looks for. A peak can actually make certain recordings interesting in a way that, once it's removed, disappears, and you wonder why you liked the recording in the first place. Meantime, given better phones, you listen for the peak, and not hearing it blame the phones for having some kind of suckout, or recess. I'm not saying that's what's behind the 880 criticisms, just that this is one of the reasons it's so hard to judge phones without a live music yardstick, and why our opinions are so divergent, and will probably become more divergent the less posters are familiar with live music. 

 

[Dillont3]

I agree with you. I would say their mids are neutral, but not recessed. Coming from sennheiser HD598's and Share SHR-940's which both have very forward mids, it took me a little while to get used to the mids on my Dt-880's, but once I did I didn't want to take them off my head and definitely wouldn't say they are recessed.

I also think that people get used to certain sound signatures or value forward mids or emphasized bass so much that any headphones that don't meet their preference become "bass anemic" or having "recessed mids." For example a lot of people also say that the Shure 940's are bass anemic. While I agree that they have more emphasis on treble and mids and they don't have a ton of hard hitting bass impact, I definitely do not think they are bass anemic. I enjoy their bass and think it is tight, accurate and extends really well. Occasionally I even think there is a little to much bass when I am listening to certain jazz recordings. But then again I listen to a lot of jazz, string quartets, vocalists, acoustic, etc. So I tend to value mids and treble more and definitely am not a bass head. To each their own, but I definitely think each person's preferences effect how they evaluate different headphones.

 

[eke2k6]

Yes, but it's a matter of perspective. The treble and bass are definitely boosted above the lower mids. The upper mids aren't as laid back though. 
 
I found that I had to boost the volume when listening to songs that require good midrange presence, which would make the treble close to unbearable.
 
While the HD600 doesn't have the addictive treble my DT880 did, I find the balance to work a lot better overall.

 

[Limniscate]

I don't think they're recessed, but it's all relative.  Compared to the HE400, the DT880 definitely aren't recessed.

 

[zazex]

Quote:

I agree with you. I would say their mids are neutral, but not recessed. Coming from sennheiser HD598's and Share SHR-940's which both have very forward mids, it took me a little while to get used to the mids on my Dt-880's, but once I did I didn't want to take them off my head and definitely wouldn't say they are recessed.
 

 
Quote:

I don't think they're recessed, but it's all relative.  Compared to the HE400, the DT880 definitely aren't recessed.

 
 
I don't think they're recessed either.

 

[Lorspeaker]

the whole presentation of the music is "further" away from the stage,
so in that sense i like it for orchestra music.
But it loses out in intimacy for a small band n solo female vocal seduction.

 

[eke2k6]

The issue here is that the bass and treble sound more boosted compared to the mids, effectively giving it a mild U shape.

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

The issue here is that the bass and treble sound more boosted compared to the mids, effectively giving it a mild U shape.

 
This ^
 
Totally agree with Eke - compared to a lot of headphones, it's actually pretty flat tonally - very slight emphasis in the mid-bass, and peaky around the highs.  This gives it a mild U - which makes the mid-range recessed relative to the bass and treble.
 
 
Compare it to the HD600 - which has quite a bit more balance in the mid-range relatively, and less of a peak
 
 
Mind you - some people find the HD600 quite 'mid-forward' - so I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
 
 
I love both the DT880 and HD600 and regard both as relatively flat.  If comparing the two of them though (and I do regard the HD600 as the flatter and more natural sounding) - then yes, the DT880 mid-range is very slightly recessed.
 
I guess it's also one reason why tube amps are quite often recommended for the DT880 - soften the highs a bit, and brings the mid-range forward .......

 

[cute]

Quote:

Quote:

The issue here is that the bass and treble sound more boosted compared to the mids, effectively giving it a mild U shape.

 
This ^
 
Totally agree with Eke - compared to a lot of headphones, it's actually pretty flat tonally - very slight emphasis in the mid-bass, and peaky around the highs.  This gives it a mild U - which makes the mid-range recessed relative to the bass and treble.
 
 
Compare it to the HD600 - which has quite a bit more balance in the mid-range relatively, and less of a peak
 
 
Mind you - some people find the HD600 quite 'mid-forward' - so I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
 
 
I love both the DT880 and HD600 and regard both as relatively flat.  If comparing the two of them though (and I do regard the HD600 as the flatter and more natural sounding) - then yes, the DT880 mid-range is very slightly recessed.
 
I guess it's also one reason why tube amps are quite often recommended for the DT880 - soften the highs a bit, and brings the mid-range forward .......

 
With my DT880 600 ohm and tube amp, the mid-range is much more forward.....dual entry DHC Peptide rewire helps there as well, makes the mids just as forward as the HD600 and HD580!

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Yes, but it's a matter of perspective. The treble and bass are definitely boosted above the lower mids. The upper mids aren't as laid back though. 
 
I found that I had to boost the volume when listening to songs that require good midrange presence, which would make the treble close to unbearable.
 
While the HD600 doesn't have the addictive treble my DT880 did, I find the balance to work a lot better overall.

That's it, but again it's all relative, coming from HD650, W5000, ESW9, AD2000, HD800, K271S, LCD-2.2, Mad Dog, MDR-1r, even Ety ER4s, they do feel recessed in mids, but spend a day with them alone and ears will adjust and they start sound perfectly balanced.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

The issue here is that the bass and treble sound more boosted compared to the mids, effectively giving it a mild U shape.

 
 
I should have made the proviso, as I usually do with this phone, that the treble is flattened slightly. I use a Marantz SR4200 HT amp with -2db treble and the balance is great. The DT880 is probably one of the easier phones to flatten out with any old tone control, but it is necessary just to take that "sting" off. As for the bass being boosted, I don't hear it and it doesn't show up in FR graphs--but hey, I think we're talking two different things here. I have the 880 PRO, which doesn't show an elevated bass; the 600 ohm is a different matter:   
 
 

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

I agree with you. I would say their mids are neutral, but not recessed. Coming from sennheiser HD598's and Share SHR-940's which both have very forward mids, it took me a little while to get used to the mids on my Dt-880's, but once I did I didn't want to take them off my head and definitely wouldn't say they are recessed.

I also think that people get used to certain sound signatures or value forward mids or emphasized bass so much that any headphones that don't meet their preference become "bass anemic" or having "recessed mids." For example a lot of people also say that the Shure 940's are bass anemic. While I agree that they have more emphasis on treble and mids and they don't have a ton of hard hitting bass impact, I definitely do not think they are bass anemic. I enjoy their bass and think it is tight, accurate and extends really well. Occasionally I even think there is a little to much bass when I am listening to certain jazz recordings. But then again I listen to a lot of jazz, string quartets, vocalists, acoustic, etc. So I tend to value mids and treble more and definitely am not a bass head. To each their own, but I definitely think each person's preferences effect how they evaluate different headphones.

 
You sir hit the nail on the head, I've seen this being the case too many times on this forum, a lot of people lack the sense in handling "your preferences or gotten-used-to bias" or lack of aknowledging audio "psychology" plays a big role in how we interpret things. Headphones that have forward midrange gets called "neutral" because it sounds great to them when it would be more accurate to say that he/she prefers a forward midrange and then a headphone with neutral midrange gets called recessed because it doesn't sound as forward as the forward midrange headphone. Frequency response balance isn't a 2-setting forward/recessed setting.
 
From graph above I'd call it pretty neutral, the highs peak around 9kHz gets evened out from the 15kHzish drop and slight lower-mids bump.
 
Here's an illustration of my approach to interpet frequency response graphs, my ears have agreed pretty nicely with headphones I've tested and done the comparision with.
 
 

 

[Luigi Milazzo]

I'm a little bit late, I know it. But today there's not any competitive alternative to the fabulous dt880. In the past I sold them in search got something more natural in the mid region. I had the k612, the k712 pro, but the their whole image is really pushed away. the hd58x, which I found horribly high mid recessed and boomy, the k702, too light in the bass... and after a fight with myself trying to find the courage to buy a dt1990, I read the an article that show how to put a piece of paper toilet under the built in filter of each cup. This mod let the mids stand up a lot and transform a surgically precise instrument of dissection in a pair of wonderfully balanced headphones. Mine is the pro 250 ohm version. My test is Josh Groban's "Illuminations" album, where the voice is recorded without any effect.

Edit: the mod destroy the coherence, but it's easily reversible. The only real perceived problem with the dt880 is that every voice lover in rock and complex instrument tracks will find the volume of that wonderful mids too low in comparison with the highs. Yesterday i slowly increased the volume to have more satisfaction. After a while I started to feel that the whole sound was horrible. It was ear fatigue. The problem is that the dt880 don't distort even at insane listening levels and that wonderful highs can kill your ears if you are searching for the mids. Yes they are recessed in the presence zone. The k702 is the opposite: too much 2khz. Hd 600 do a perfect job, but some find it boring. K712 is the sweet spot.

 

[Kazz123]

I've also seen this criticism and never got it. Overall their sound is so neutral an barely needs an EQ, I can't say any part of the frequency spectrum is "recessed".

Of course there are some parts that people can dislike. Lacking sub-bass? I could see that. Highs a bit accentuated? Also true. But not the mids. Maybe they're a bit tilted towards lower-mids, but that's such an abysmally small emphasis.

I might be biased because the DT-880 are pretty much my fav headphones of all time, but I've compared them to so many, and nothing satisfies my in the same way somehow. They remind me a lot of good speakers.

 

[mvule]

Purchased a DT 880 not long ago and did wonder whether I was hearing recessed mids but now consider the mids just about right.
Not as full or luxurious as the HD 600, which I'm used to, so have gone back to those but seriously impressed with the DT 880 all the same. (600 ohm version)