[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif there's also this one: Refined Audiometrics Laboratory if you search hard enough, there's a freeware version floating around w/ 3 or 5 bands...don't remember. it upsamples, I find it terrible...but many ppl find it amazing

A friend of mine sent me some samples using this EQ. It does sound very good. I wouldn't call it amazing though.

This is my favorite:

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif thats why i added one of these.. .. im a playful guy, what can i say... and you have to admit.. that was classic trolling.. not that theres anything wrong with that... i dont use graphs to equalize headphones, you have to custom equalise to your hearing, which means by ear... the equalizing thread explains it all.. It sounds like most of the people who swear off equalizing.. and i used to be one of them, have never actually read the how to equalize thread... it seems likes its not what most people expect that it is.. it certainly wasn't for me... it was a real eye.. i mean...ear opener... (see what i did there... that's me being playful again)

Well, if you "equalize by ear", you really aren't equalizing, you're simply tuning to what you enjoy. There is nothing wrong with that; though I simply choose to do this with my choice of equipment.

Also, it's certainly not "trolling" - trolling is posting something simply for the sake of raising an argument; I was simply stating an opinion.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for equalizers in general, I avoid using them as I don't measure the frequency response graphs of the headphones while using frequency sweeps on specific equalizers and their settings to get an actual "flat" response. If you have the equipment and actually make the headphones completely flat with an equalizer, by all means; I don't.

apparently the only thing that could help to do so would be some cyborg brain modification

http://www.davidgriesinger.com/headphones.htm
Quote:

Lacking probe microphone measurements at the eardrum, the best way to equalize a headphone is by listening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif A friend of mine sent me some samples using this EQ. It does sound very good.

very early 70's technology apparently? might be nice for recording...but for mastering/headphones EQ, it might be too colored, isn't it?

 

[Br777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, if you "equalize by ear", you really aren't equalizing, you're simply tuning to what you enjoy. There is nothing wrong with that; though I simply choose to do this with my choice of equipment.

clearly you haven't given the process i keep referring to a look. This process has nothing to do with personal preferences and tuning to what you enjoy. its a systematic process of removing imperfections created by the act of attaching speakers to your head i.e. using headphones... obviously that's a very oversimplified explanation.

I would be genuinely interested to hear what you had to say after you actually read the how to equalize thread, and maybe even gave it a try.

 

[Apocalypsee]

I'm a purist to be honest and I don't like the idea of equalizer, but I already done the equalizing headphone few months back, surprised by the result.

Although I still like to keep it flat as equalizing by ear purely depends on volume, different volume have different response to our ear and the driver, so some quiet track sounds different from a 'hotter' ones.

 

[haloxt]

I'm a purist not because I'm a purist, but because I get very OCD fiddling the equalizer.

 

[germanium]

Assuming a perfect room (no such thing) everything has a designed in listening volume that is set during mixing & mastering. if you listen at a volume lower than it was mastered for the you will have to equalize to make it sound right to the ear. This assumes also that you have speakers that are tuned to the flatest response. Most speakers & especially computer multimedia ones are not tuned for flat responce across the whole audio band.

Equalizers got a bad name years ago when many of them were of poor quality & introduced a lot of distortion along with the equalization & the more equalization at any one band the worse the distortion. I am not talking of clipping distotion here as that is what happens with many equalizers that operate in the digital domain when attempting to equalize the already maxed out volumes that are in the recordings today. This distortion though very audible is not clipping that was produced by the older analog equalizers.

High quality analog equalizers can in the right hands correct for a multitude of recording problems including phase problems as many volume deviation includes a phase deviation as well. If you match the volume deviation with your correction it generally corrects the phase problem as well. This does not generally happen with digital equalization. Digital aqualization corrects the volume issue at the given frequency but not the phase issue. Some in the pro audio field say though that the phase issues are not audible as long as the volume is correct.

If you want to use digital equalization & need to boost any frequency you will need to first cut the overall volume in the digital domain before applying any boost to avoid clipping unless the recording was aleady soft to begin with. Many equalizers give you that option but obviously not all so you will have to find some other means of reducing overall volume if the equalizer itself does not offer that capability.

I gerally do not use equalization as my speakers are already acceptably flat & boosting the bass for night time listening is a no go as I live in an apartment. boosting bass to similate flat responce to the ear for the reduced volume would have the bass almost as loud as it was originally at my prefered daytime listening volume due to the ear response, as a result the bass would go right through the walls.

 

[krmathis]

Yeah, for me it does.
I do not want anything to tamper with the audio data streamed to my DAC.

 

[leeperry]

using speakers w/o DRC is the exact same story...you get nasty resonances against your furniture/walls.

records are mastered on professional grade monitors in controlled rooms, listening to them on hifi speakers in your average living room is hardly a compromise...it's more like a plain waste of SQ.

room EQ is a "free" substantial upgrade, and your biggest bottleneck anyhow IMO.

 

[Br777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Assuming a perfect room (no such thing) everything has a designed in listening volume that is set during mixing & mastering. if you listen at a volume lower than it was mastered for the you will have to equalize to make it sound right to the ear. This assumes also that you have speakers that are tuned to the flatest response. Most speakers & especially computer multimedia ones are not tuned for flat responce across the whole audio band. Equalizers got a bad name years ago when many of them were of poor quality & introduced a lot of distortion along with the equalization & the more equalization at any one band the worse the distortion. I am not talking of clipping distotion here as that is what happens with many equalizers that operate in the digital domain when attempting to equalize the already maxed out volumes that are in the recordings today. This distortion though very audible is not clipping that was produced by the older analog equalizers. High quality analog equalizers can in the right hands correct for a multitude of recording problems including phase problems as many volume deviation includes a phase deviation as well. If you match the volume deviation with your correction it generally corrects the phase problem as well. This does not generally happen with digital equalization. Digital aqualization corrects the volume issue at the given frequency but not the phase issue. Some in the pro audio field say though that the phase issues are not audible as long as the volume is correct. If you want to use digital equalization & need to boost any frequency you will need to first cut the overall volume in the digital domain before applying any boost to avoid clipping unless the recording was aleady soft to begin with. Many equalizers give you that option but obviously not all so you will have to find some other means of reducing overall volume if the equalizer itself does not offer that capability. I gerally do not use equalization as my speakers are already acceptably flat & boosting the bass for night time listening is a no go as I live in an apartment. boosting bass to similate flat responce to the ear for the reduced volume would have the bass almost as loud as it was originally at my prefered daytime listening volume due to the ear response, as a result the bass would go right through the walls.

considering this thread is addressing listening via headphones, most of what you have said is not relevant to this conversation... thanks anyway

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif clearly you haven't given the process i keep referring to a look. This process has nothing to do with personal preferences and tuning to what you enjoy. its a systematic process of removing imperfections created by the act of attaching speakers to your head i.e. using headphones... obviously that's a very oversimplified explanation. I would be genuinely interested to hear what you had to say after you actually read the how to equalize thread, and maybe even gave it a try.

I'm sure that he has read the thread, and I'm sure that you don't fully understand it.

I tried equalizing extensively before. I followed the instructions completely and created what I believed to be "flat" perceived frequency response on all of my headphones. I thought it sounded great at first, but the more I listened the more I began to notice problems.

1) your headphones don't have a flat response for a reason. In many cases, headphone manufacturers intentionally boost or reduce certain frequencies in order to mask unwanted resonances, or flaws in driver design. boosted frequencies can improve detail; rolloff can create punchier sound and tighter bass.
2) your headphones will not sound the same even if they are all EQed to exactly the same levels. I've come to realize that FR is a trait of headphones that you often should not mess with, because it is an integral part of their sound signature. A great example was my old DX1000s, which I HATED after I EQ'ed them flat with sine sweeps, but they sounded pretty damn good in their unaltered form.
3) music is rarely mastered with the intention of being played out of perfectly flat speakers. Having a flat FR on your headphones would make more sense if people didn't equalize in the studio to compensate for unflat FR.

 

[Br777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a purist not because I'm a purist, but because I get very OCD fiddling the equalizer.

yeah... i can relate to that.. it took me more or less 3 weeks of daily fiddling to equalize for an even sine wave and pink noise response... I am finally content that i have done my best, and have told myself to just leave it. ... but i still check it every once in a while just in case i am hearing differently for some reason...

 

[Br777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) your headphones don't have a flat response for a reason. In many cases, headphone manufacturers intentionally boost or reduce certain frequencies in order to mask unwanted resonances, or flaws in driver design. boosted frequencies can improve detail; rolloff can create punchier sound and tighter bass.

certainly a possibility... cant really argue this one way or the other
of course if after eq-ing properly, you are not happy with the sound than you should adjust it until you are... personal preference trumps EVERYTHING in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2) your headphones will not sound the same even if they are all EQed to exactly the same levels.

I would certainly not tell someone to use the same eq settings for different headphones.. that would make no sense...


Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've come to realize that FR is a trait of headphones that you often should not mess with, because it is an integral part of their sound signature. A great example was my old DX1000s, which I HATED after I EQ'ed them flat with sine sweeps, but they sounded pretty damn good in their unaltered form.

a perfectly valid personal opinion. no arguing with that..

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3) music is rarely mastered with the intention of being played out of perfectly flat speakers. Having a flat FR on your headphones would make more sense if people didn't equalize in the studio to compensate for unflat FR.

hmmm... I'm not opening that can of worms... someone else can tackle that one...

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif personal preference trumps EVERYTHING in the end.

And that's exactly why I don't EQ. Time spent fiddling isn't worth it if I like the sound already, colored or not. If your cup of tea is neutral response, go ahead.

Quote:

I would certainly not tell someone to use the same eq settings for different headphones.. that would make no sense...

I think he meant that even if you spent hours setting a separate EQ for two different headphones so that they both had a perfectly flat response, they still wouldn't sound the same. And I agree. The speed and PRaT of a headphone is a factor that isn't going to be changed completely by flattening the response. Other things like soundstage, airiness, bass punch, are all affected by an EQ but still probably won't be equal.

 

[Br777]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think he meant that even if you spent hours setting a separate EQ for two different headphones so that they both had a perfectly flat response, they still wouldn't sound the same. And I agree. The speed and PRaT of a headphone is a factor that isn't going to be changed completely by flattening the response. Other things like soundstage, airiness, bass punch, are all affected by an EQ but still probably won't be equal.

Oh, i see... yes of course what youre saying is correct...