[b0dhi]

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Originally Posted by jdimitri /img/forum/go_quote.gif You do know that stereo means left and right and that there's no such thing as front and rear right? (ESPECIALLY in headphones) And most of the recording we listen to aren't recorded in stereo anyway What they do is they pan channels to left and/or right, or a mix of it.. therefore reversing it wouldn't make music less enjoyable in any way EDIT: of course, except if you know the recording very well and anal about these things EDIT2: when things are moving from left to right, it simply means that the left channel is lowered in volume while the right channel is increased in volume

How do you think you hear things in front of you differently than things behind you? Your ears are stereo after all. The same principle applies, albeit to a different degree for stereo sound coming from headphones. It doesn't work as well for headphones, because each person's ears are different, but it still makes a difference.

On your other points, I agree to an extent. Some music will be fine reversed, but (most) other, better produced music will have cues for positioning which will be reversed, and sound "wrong" when the headphones are reversed.

 

[Febs]

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How am I supposed to "know" that an instrument is supposed to be on the left/right?

If you listen to orchestral music, you'll know. Though there are many variations on how orchestras are set up on stage, the first violins are invariably seated on the stage right (i.e., the listener and conductor's left) side of the stage. With orchestral recordings, it is immediately obvious if the channels are reversed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you think you hear things in front of you differently than things behind you? Your ears are stereo after all.

So are your eyes. When you look in a mirror, do the distant objects appear close and the close objects appear distant?

 

[Jamfan16]

I don't see how switching the channels would affect sound quality. I'm pretty sure I would achieve the exact same effect if I were to hang upside-down while facing an orchestra. I'd like to think that doing so would not hurt the SQ at all - although it might hurt my chances of remaining at the show.

Now, if your definition of SQ also includes 'correct' positioning of instruments and sounds, then yeah, of course it's going to be negatively affected.

EDIT - Well, I thought it over some more, so I'm going to play devil's advocate.

Unless I'm wrong, your ears are just like your hands and eyes, you develop a stronger ability to 'sense' and 'control' one of the two. So, after years of talking on the phone with my right hear to the speaker, and years of orienting my right ear to faint sounds that I'm trying to hear, it's probably safe to say that my right ear is 'better' than my left. You can test this by talking on the phone and then switching ears - it's somewhat disorienting.

If this is the case with most people, then changing the channels in a stereo setup might actually affect SQ, since your 'weaker' ear is getting a different channel.

Conclusion - It depends, just like everything else.

 

[facelvega]

First, people, whether one's ears differ from one another is a separate question from whether switching the left channel with the right makes a difference for sound quality.

For music, an L/R swap amounts merely to the impression of having everyone on the stage switch sides with one another. Apart from left-right mirroring, perceived distance and placement should stay the same-- i.e., the illusory soundstage of stereo sound just requires two channels, it doesn't matter which one is which. You would only notice the switch had happened at all if you were accustomed to hearing the recording the right way around, or in cases like the violins being on the wrong side, as mentioned above. So does it matter? Only if there's some reason for things to be on one side and not the other.

Following on this, though, remember that the biggest problem with L/R switching is encountered when watching films. It's totally unnerving to see a car drive across the screen one way and hear the opposite.

 

[feifan]

Has anyone tried the switch? With K-701s, the fit is nearly the same, L-R or R-L. (I'd say the fit is the same, but after a long while, the shape might gradually conform to each side. Mine are still neutral in look and feel.) In SE mode, however, the single cable placement will differ, making a rough A/B blind test difficult.

I just did, and there doesn't seem to be any difference. I tried it for only a few minutes, but even the soundstage orientation seems the same -- which is counter intuitive.

EDIT: I should have tried the test with the GS1K, which appears the same either way -- and it has a separate cable for each side. I'll try it later.

 

[java]

Doesn't affect sound quality, where it does make a difference is when you listen to music with sounds that cross the sound stage, and you are used to hearing them move right to left, and suddenly they now move left to right, most music, it doesn't matter, on some you will notice it, and very few it will sound "wrong", only difference, unless the drivers are not symmetrically centered, then the sound stage will move forward or back, depending on how the drivers are offset ...

 

[feifan]

OK, I'm trying the blind (eyes closed) L-R A/B with the GS1K. There is a difference when the bass, for example, is emanating from the right instead of the usual left. With the K701, this bass difference wasn't an issue. With the Grado's fat, forward bass, direction is suddenly a factor. Slightly disorienting. Overall sound quality is affected, but I'm not sure if it's actual or just a matter of getting used to the switch. Is there such a thing as ear burn-in? That is, with a shift in bass direction, my right ear needs to burn in? Hmmm, with this question, now I'm wondering if we actually burn in our ears or the equipment that we press them to.

 

[Mrvile]

Sound quality, I repeat, SOUND QUALITY IS NOT AFFECTED when you reverse the stereo orientation of headphones, at least for headphones with symmetrical drivers (some headphones with tilted drivers like the HD595 and A900 will be more difficult to switch, you'd have to do it digitally). They will sound exactly the same, everything will just be reversed. Your ears may or may not be used to this and your brain will then "tell" you that something doesn't sound right, thus giving you the impression that the sound quality is affected. For music from orchestras, where you might be used to hearing certain instruments on certain sides, it might sound a bit weird, but for most studio recorded music, there isn't a "set" side that each instrument should be on so it shouldn't sound any "worse." And no, there isn't a "front" or "rear" when it comes to stereo headphones.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrvile /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sound quality, I repeat, SOUND QUALITY IS NOT AFFECTED when you reverse the stereo orientation of headphones, at least for headphones with symmetrical drivers (some headphones with tilted drivers like the HD595 and A900 will be more difficult to switch, you'd have to do it digitally). They will sound exactly the same, everything will just be reversed. Your ears may or may not be used to this and your brain will then "tell" you that something doesn't sound right, thus giving you the impression that the sound quality is affected. For music from orchestras, where you might be used to hearing certain instruments on certain sides, it might sound a bit weird, but for most studio recorded music, there isn't a "set" side that each instrument should be on so it shouldn't sound any "worse." And no, there isn't a "front" or "rear" when it comes to stereo headphones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "sound quality" an impression? And if our impression is that quality is affected, then is it or isn't it? And if it is, then your statement "SOUND QUALITY IS NOT AFFECTED" is not entirely true? That is, at least until other factors work in, such as ear burn-in? Then the statement becomes true?

 

[spinali]

I doubt most people would even care - but it makes a very big difference when I'm listening to movies. And I think that, with classical, the mix is created to provide the more realistic impression of an orchesetra - which can make a difference during solos and softer sections.

I kind of stay with the L/R orientation, in the assumption that the engineers did it for a reason. Then again, there are people who listen to music with white earbuds and apparently don't show much interest either way. Too bad.

 

[b0dhi]

It was surpsingly difficult to find a reference for it, even though its fairly common knowledge, but here is one article: Dolby Headphone Overview

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The best way to realize what we mean is to take your Dolby Headphone program and listen to it with your headphones on backwards. Wear them reversed, with the right side earcup/mini-speaker on your left ear and vice versa. With the headphones on backwards, where do you now hear the sounds that originally came from the front? Sure, right-to-left imaging is reversed as can be expected, but forget that for a moment. Try closing your eyes or turning off your TV. What you may notice is that the front-to-back imaging is not so clearly placed anymore. That is, you're probably not as sure whether the sound is coming from in front of you or from behind you.

As I said before, there are subtle phase-related cues in a good stereo image, and there have been many times when music I've been listening to has had sounds in "front" or the "back". Putting the headphones on backwards would alter the front/rear presentation as the article points out. This doesn't happen often in an acoustic recording, but with electronica it's fairly common. So, yes, reversing the L/R channels does have an effect on sound quality.

 

[feifan]

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Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was surpsingly difficult to find a reference for it, even though its fairly common knowledge, but here is one article: Dolby Headphone Overview As I said before, there are subtle phase-related cues in a good stereo image, and there have been many times when music I've been listening to has had sounds in "front" or the "back". Putting the headphones on backwards would alter the front/rear presentation as the article points out. This doesn't happen often in an acoustic recording, but with electronica it's fairly common. So, yes, reversing the L/R channels does have an effect on sound quality.

Hmm. Very interesting. Makes sense, in a way. If you imagine soundstage as a square laying flat and label the side facing you as "front," then turning it so the left side is on the right will move the front to the back. So, theoretically, yeah, you've reversed the soundstage.

 

[LawnGnome]

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Originally Posted by stereophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess I subscribe to the idea that the left and right sides of our brains are different, so if you reverse L and R like this, it isn't going to create the same experience in your brain.

This would be true..... if our the different sides of our brains controlled the sides of the body like that. But thats not how it is. there is a specific region for sound processing.

I do think having them reversed will give a different experience.

But the SQ would be the same assuming you can get the same fit, like the OP said. There is no physical reason why sound quality would decrease, as sound is all about physics.

Dont confuse sound quality with sound experience.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm. Very interesting. Makes sense, in a way. If you imagine soundstage as a square laying flat and label the side facing you as "front," then turning it so the left side is on the right will move the front to the back. So, theoretically, yeah, you've reversed the soundstage.

If you reverse the stereo signal, you'd be mirroring that paper left to right, not rotating it as you describe.

 

[Ice Max]

I listen to Beatles in stereo often (don't have any mono recordings on my PC, or a record player to play my dads old collection of the capital records vinyl), so reversing the channels would completely screw with me in those songs. Also, playing a video game and wearing headphones with reversed channels would drive me absolutely crazy.