[Head Injury]

Quote:

In theory you are right, but in practise not.

I'm assuming you're not just going by subjective impressions when you say that. Right?

 

[JRG1990]

Quote:

In theory you are right, but in practise not.
Sigma-delta DAC are inferior in most (not every) cases to old multibit, but probably Sabre DAC (ESS) are exceptions.
OS and analogue filtering is not required - I have build few DAC and headphone amps myself - almost all NOS, all without analogue filtering.
Voltage amping is also not required (especially with low impedance headphones) - current A-class buffer is a way better choice.

Do you have any evidence?, The only thing inferior about sigma-delta dac's is the way they handle noise which isn't really an audiable difference but the biggest difference.
A NOS dac with no filtering or roll off can damage speaker and headphones.
 

 

[borizm]

I mean in my practise, friends, and other DIY guys.
 
Level of digital rubish is quite low - I never heard about of damaged headphones or tweeters by this in comparison to quite common damages by DC voltage or high altitude self generated oscilations in amps, or typical overheating by high volume listening.
 
Evidence... Yes! I have filmed this, so you will see
Again, it's part of my experience, and my firends, and DIY guys which have discover this years before me. I was off DIY hobby for ~17 years, but I've come back

 

[JRG1990]

Quote:

Evidence... Yes! I have filmed this, so you will see
Again, it's part of my experience, and my firends, and DIY guys which have discover this years before me. I was off DIY hobby for ~17 years, but I've come back

Part of your subjective experience?, or do you have real measurements?.
 
 

 

[borizm]

Measurements of qulity of the sound, of transparency, of air/space/stage, of musicality? There is no way to do this by the any equipment (I have sold most of mine 17 years ago).
Something may sounds or not - and parameters are nothing to do with this.

 

[JRG1990]

No but you can measure disortion (thd, imd etc) , signal to noise , dynamic range, [size=x-small]frequency response[/size] , jitter , linearity , bit resolution , crosstalk , interchannel phase. The measurements will show whether the dac colours the sound and in what way or if it's completly transparent.

 

[stv014]

Subjective comparisons are fine, as long as they are done in a blind manner (e.g. with an ABX test), without knowing which source is which. It is surprising how much the previously perceived differences tend to disappear then.

 

 

[borizm]

But these parameters not tell the truth of real nature of the sound, and may only confuse.
FiiO E7 and E9 has almost superb parameters, but are totally unlistenable, and NuForce uDAC is exact inversion of this example.
 
Subjective comparison is only one that matter. All these stuff are for listen to the music, not for measuring of the parameters.

 

[stv014]

Quote:

FiiO E7 and E9 has almost superb parameters, but are totally unlistenable

At least in the case of the E7, "superb" is a bit of an exaggeration, and the E9 has relatively high output impedance, which can change the sound of dynamic headphones; it does not have really great SNR, either. But if they are so unlistenable, then you should have no trouble proving it with a double-blind ABX test against higher quality reference sources. In case you succeed, more extensive measurements would probably show the flaws of these devices.
 

 

[JRG1990]

Quote:

But these parameters not tell the truth of real nature of the sound, and may only confuse.
FiiO E7 and E9 has almost superb parameters, but are totally unlistenable, and NuForce uDAC is exact inversion of this example.
 
Subjective comparison is only one that matter. All these stuff are for listen to the music, not for measuring of the parameters.

 
There as true as it gets and the results repeatable ,the test equipment won't be biased because 1 dac costs more than the other , or it prefers the more shiny looking dac, or prefers the flavour of the month dac.
The graphs may be confusing if you don't what's audiable and whats not, but rather than wasting your time reading subjective reviews you could read up on the different types of disortion , frequency responce etc and learn how to interpret the results. Maybe thats why subjective reviews are preferred because people don't know what a signal to noise ratio is etc and can't be asked to learn it's there loss.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

FiiO E7 and E9 has almost superb parameters, but are totally unlistenable, and NuForce uDAC is exact inversion of this example.

Funny thing, there. I couldn't tell the uDAC from my X-Fi XtremeGamer sound card when I first got it. I, of course, convinced myself there was a difference by the end of the week because I had just spent $100 on it and there was so much praise of it. I do still "fondly" remember that first day, though. Plugging it in, big grin on my face, then an hour later sitting there dumbfounded wondering if I had it plugged in properly. Then the "burn-in" happened for a while after that. I was only human, after all.
 
Never compared it directly to the Benchmark DAC1 when I had it, or my current Essence STX, because I was using it with a tube amp and switched everything out at once. I doubt I would have heard an appreciable difference there, either. Any differences I heard with the DAC1 I expect came from getting rid of the Little Dot I+.

 

[borizm]

No, not again It was very painful for me when I try to find something valuable in the sound of E9 (connected to E7 and other sources) and amp in E7.
The E9 I have for a while was already burned by my friend who was very happy with it... at least at the beginning. I was unable to burn-in myself in the overal quality of the E9 sound - lack of air, space, details, lifeless and technicalized sound - everything I like has gone!

 

[JRG1990]

Theres nothing wrong with the e9 other than the output impendance and 10ohm isn't likely to effect most headphones, the e9 is transparent as an amp maybe you didn't like it because the sound is uncoloured, maybe in your sighted listening of it you didn't like it because of it's , price , shape , colour , because it says fiio on it , because it was made in china.

 

[borizm]

Please compare FiiO E9 with pure wire ("no amp") or any real audiophile amp - you will see the difference, and "catch" how the TPA6120/30 really "sounds".
I like things "made in China" very much, I also like cheap DIY kits, and wasn't tune to not like FiiO before - I still have FiiO E7 with L7 attached for good, to skip infamous TPA6120/30.
I use A-class discrete JFET/MOSFET headphone amp - superior to FiiO E9 in every aspect.
OK, FiiO E9 is OK as entry level hi-fi amp, but shouldn't be never attached to DT990/DT880/DT770, K272/K501/K601/K701 and better, because it's blasphemy

 

[JRG1990]

You don't like it because the amplifier chip says TPA6120/30 on it, the e9 will be fine with any headphones 50ohm+ to over come the output impendance.