[ph0rk]

This may sound wonky, but try a senn HD590. They're more forward than the 600's, portable/efficient, and a nice balance for symhponic music or rock.

 

[AIM9x]

i prefer my sr225 to my ksc35s in all situations except for portability or for when deep concentration is needed on something else. Grados just immerse you in sound and you can't study w/them on, but the ksc35s are much more study-friendly... they're just slower and less impactful... less distracting.

 

[mclaren20]

Quote:

Originally posted by AIM9x i prefer my sr225 to my ksc35s in all situations except for portability or for when deep concentration is needed on something else. Grados just immerse you in sound and you can't study w/them on, but the ksc35s are much more study-friendly... they're just slower and less impactful... less distracting.

EXACTLY!

 

[jona]

I own KSC-35's and Grado SR-80's (still saving to upgrado!!!).

I do not find these lower-end Grados "unrefined" at all. They deliver very close to what I hear sitting in the front few rows of a live concert. I enjoy this energetic sound far more than the laid back (rear of the concert hall) experience of the Senn 580/600. I think the Grado-vs-Senn debate boils down to personal preference rather than "refined vs unrefined". Although my first serious cans were original Senn HD 414's (bought back in the '70's when they were introduced!), it seems I have always had something else I wished to buy before the Senn 580/600. I can hear the appeal of the 580/600's, though, and I can see myself buying some eventually.

While the KSC-35 is a great portable can in its price class, I rarely find myself choosing it for home listening. I enjoy my KSC-35's from portable sources, but honestly they are no where near as refined across all types of music as the SR-80's. The 35's bass is over-emphasized and quite flabby compared to the 80's. In the clarity of the high's & upper mids (e.g. the sizzle of cymbals, the attack of a lone trumpet) the 35's are a significant step below the 80's. In my a/b listening to 80's vs 225's, the 225's are more refined and offer a bit more bass extension. IMHO- to compare the 35's to the 225's on an absolute ($$ is no object) basis using home mid-fi to hi-fi equipment is simply no contest.

Jon

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by hempcamp On the rare occasion that I listen to harder stuff (The Who, Floyd, Zeppelin), the Grados make me feel like my brain is being rubbed against a cheese-grater --Chris

Gosh, it's a good thing you don't use the Grados on the material I do. If Zeppelin sounds like head on cheese-grater to you, I shudder to think what Megadeth would sond like. Head on industrial diamond grinder anyone?

 

[Guyferd]

not surprising.
I've had ksc-35 for quite a long time and they remain my favourite for portable and sometimes I even use them for my home setup.
While the sound can never beat the full sized cans at 200 dollars range, it approaches it definitely.
It's like a mini full sized cans. You just don't have as much 3 dimensionality but the mid, bass and everything is definitely quite on par.

 

[fractus2]

While my SR225s are still en route, there is no discussion that my SR80s are preferred over the 35s in all situations excepting for portable where I forget my etys. I probably have one to two too many headphones as the 35s don't get used anymore.

 

[Duncan]

Out of KSC35, Grado (albeit) RS1 and Senn PX250, I personally find the KSCs to sound blurred, and dark, the RS1s to be (at times) too shouty, but the PX250s sound really clean...

The PX250s are NOT for those of us that love midrange, they seem to be more linear than to emphasise that...

Seeing that the SR225 is regarded as sounding close to the RS1, then I think I can say that RS1 vs KSC35 is a definite win for Grado............

Don't forget though, if you have listened to the Koss' almost exclusively for quite a while, then you'll have trained your ears to like their sound

 

[Patrickhat2001]

I too have a confession to make, although, it doesn't concern the KSC-35s. I prefer the Grado Sr60s to the Sr225s, both with modded Senn pads. While the 225s certainly have more bass impact I find the Sr60s to sound more transparent and detailed (although they have a peak in the high midrange-lower treble which is annoying). To my ears the sound of the 225s are nice and warm but too thick for me--they are not detailed at all in the lower midrange and bass--just boomy (or thick, as I like to call it).

I've tried them both unamped and amped and my preference still remains. But that's all it is, a preference and I could see how someone could love the Sr225s over all other cans in existence--they're nice, I like them, but they're not for me.

This is why I encourage head-fiers to simply buy all the recommended phones in each price class when they are thinking of upgrading, keep what they want and return or sell the rest. Only then will be sure that you have found the sound that best suits you.

And it's preference, not class that matters. The 225s may be in a different price class than the Sr60s but that doesn't mean that everyone will like them more than the Sr60s (or KSC-35s for that matter). It's all about finding the type of sound that suits you. After you've found that, then think about upgrading but keep your mind open and make sure to try some phones that you think you won't like--the results may be suprising. Don't think I wasn't suprised to find that, to my ears, the D66 Eggos schooled every other closed phone $100 and below (along with most of the open ones to).

P.S. And just to clear up what I said up top--Yes, the 225s are slightly more detailed than the Sr60s throughout most of the midrange and treble but the SR60s are more than slighly more detailed in the lower midrange, bass so I would say, that to me they are the more detailed can--overall and have a more detailed and much more transparent sound although they are, by all accounts, still slightly boomy in the bass, they are still much more refined in the bass than the Sr225s IMO.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Patrickhat2001 I too have a confession to make, although, it doesn't concern the KSC-35s. I prefer the Grado Sr60s to the Sr225s, both with modded Senn pads. While the 225s certainly have more bass impact I find the Sr60s to sound more transparent and detailed

I had a pair of SR60s for about a year and a half, and thought they compared pretty evenly with my Denon AH-D550 closed cans, which in turn compare unfavorably to Sony MDR-7506 (similar but somewhat cruder sound). The Grado SR60 sounded a little more neutral in the midrange with a bit more 'air', but they really seemed to have a sound I now think of as 'consumer hi fi' (if it matters, mine had the comfy pads with holes cut in the center).

They did seem to mask flaws in sources/recordings particularly well... used them with my turntable for awhile and clicks/pops were less evident. But I'm surprised at your remark because I found the SR60s among the most 'undetailed' and 'smoothed-over' sounding headphones I've ever listened to, at any price point. I guess it's true, we all hear differently -- or maybe it's just that I've never heard SR225s.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

But I'm surprised at your remark because I found the SR60s among the most 'undetailed' and 'smoothed-over' sounding headphones I've ever listened to, at any price point.

I willing to bet that was because of your pads. I would never consider the Sr60 an undetailed phone, although it is not the most detailed. I think it sounds horrible with the comfy pads or unmodded Senns--only with modded Senns (or flat pads I presume) does all of the detail come through. Even though you had holes in your comfys the sound still could have been affected by the size of the holes. Besides that the comfy pads hold the drivers further away from the ears than do the Senn pads--this could also have made a difference.

Quote:

I guess it's true, we all hear differently

Or it could have been that too.

 

[Rizumu]

Quote:

Originally posted by Patrickhat2001 I willing to bet that was because of your pads. I would never consider the Sr60 an undetailed phone, although it is not the most detailed. I think it sounds horrible with the comfy pads or unmodded Senns--only with modded Senns (or flat pads I presume) does all of the detail come through. Even though you had holes in your comfys the sound still could have been affected by the size of the holes. Besides that the comfy pads hold the drivers further away from the ears than do the Senn pads--this could also have made a difference.

Agreed. Uncut Senn pads and comfies make the SR60's sound horribly murky and undetailed. I mean, think about it, the pad material is in front of the driver...What. Anyway, I liked SR60's best with modded Senns, with holes the same size as those of flat pads. In fact, I didn't even like the SR60 until I put some modded Senn pads on it and...whoa! The sound truly opened up.

Anyway, SR60 vs. KSC-35 is a toss up, it depends on your sonic preference. I like them both and don't like them for different reasons, not even sure I can say which is "better". But KSC-35 vs. SR200? No contest.

BTW, I agree, KSC-35's are awesome for studying

Speaking of studying...

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizumu Agreed. Uncut Senn pads and comfies make the SR60's sound horribly murky and undetailed. I mean, think about it, the pad material is in front of the driver...What. Anyway, I liked SR60's best with modded Senns, with holes the same size as those of flat pads. In fact, I didn't even like the SR60 until I put some modded Senn pads on it and...whoa! The sound truly opened up.

I'd really have to say "blame it on Grado." Not everyone's a Head-Fi member or an expert on headphones (I wasn't when I got the SR-60s). I listened with the pads the headphones shipped with (Doh! This should be a reasonable thing to do), and they got very little use cuz they sounded pretty mediocre to my ears.

I actually almost ended up with a pair of 225s, but thanks to Grado (again!) I got the HD-580s instead when the recent AcousticSounds "sale" went down and Grado refused to honor the price... then I fell for the Sennheiser sound in a big way. Sorry John Grado, but you had your chances...

To stay on topic... will have to hear the KSC-35s one of these days, they sure get good press around here. Got a pair of Koss KTX-Pro (very similar to Porta/Sportas) and those sound pretty good with the volume low... turn it up to medium or higher and bass just overtakes everything tho.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

"blame it on Grado."

No kidding, this is nuts. I'm suprised any non-head-fi members even own (any of the current) Grado phones. I can't see how anyone would be impressed by them with their stock pads--with the comfies there is no detail and with the bowls their is no bass and too much treble. I think most audiophiles would be disappointed upon first trying out Grado phones--unless they know about the Senn/flat pads. And who buys Grado phones? Audiophiles. Somethings not right here. Grado is not only doing a disservice to themselves but to the headphone industry in general being that Grado phones are about the only brand (besides Sennheiser) that are sold in high-end audio stores in the U.S. Anyone who enters one of these stores and hears Grados with either comfy or bowl pads and Senns (which are likely to be underpowered) is going to think "Wow! I guess headphones really haven't come that far over the years."

 

[iGig]

grrr, this is what I've been saying about my 225s, they are so bright, they make my ears ring afterwards, so they don't get enough play. I wish I had gotten the Senns instead because I love my px200.
The guitars on grado sound awesome on stuff like Pantera and Megadeth but the treble is killing me. I'm not listening loud at all, that's why I can barely hear the bass.

I guess this is what you guys meant by "grato"
I like 'em a lot, but I'm not getting $170 of pleasure.