[Trubble]

Okay, I must admit I use EQ at times...Specifically stuff like dance/trance/(what ever you call this kind of category), stuff like Gigi d'Agostino and Daft Punk, where "a bit" of bass boost is a nice touch....

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pez /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's no way you're going to be able to tell how the engineer wanted the CD exactly unless you were there. You can listen to CDs from the same labels and you'll be able to tell where they EQed.

You aren't understanding what we're saying. Engineers EQ for creative reasons. We EQ to achieve a calibrated response that matches that of the studio. Recording studios monitor the music with a totally flat response. Their rooms are tweaked to be perfectly neutral. The only way to get the same sound that the engineers heard is to calibrate your home system the same way. A recording played on one flat system sounds the same as on another flat system.

The equalization isn't to make it sound better. It's to calibrate the output to a baseline response. Is that clearer?

See ya
Steve

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif You aren't understanding what we're saying. Engineers EQ for creative reasons. We EQ to achieve a calibrated response that matches that of the studio. Recording studios monitor the music with a totally flat response. Their rooms are tweaked to be perfectly neutral. The only way to get the same sound that the engineers heard is to calibrate your home system the same way. A recording played on one flat system sounds the same as on another flat system. The equalization isn't to make it sound better. It's to calibrate the output to a baseline response. Is that clearer? See ya Steve

Imo there's no such thing as a system with a flat response, not in the studio not at home.
Imo the engineers eq the songs in the way they like how it sounds, that's why every engineer has his own signature on how recordings sound.
Then there is the fact that no two people hear sounds the same...
No room sounds the same...
And so on.
So imo it's ok to use the different eq systems at your disposal, even if they sometimes do more bad than good.
The foremost important thing is that you enjoy the music your playing, and if that means eq'ing a little, so be it

One small example:
I have a friend who is very much into Raggae.
He likes to play with two subs and likes enormous amounts of bass while listening to music.
It's not my sound I tell you!
But he likes it, and he finds that's the way to achieve at home what he experiences when attending concerts of the bands he likes.
So I say let him eq away!

 

[pez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif You aren't understanding what we're saying. Engineers EQ for creative reasons. We EQ to achieve a calibrated response that matches that of the studio. Recording studios monitor the music with a totally flat response. Their rooms are tweaked to be perfectly neutral. The only way to get the same sound that the engineers heard is to calibrate your home system the same way. A recording played on one flat system sounds the same as on another flat system. The equalization isn't to make it sound better. It's to calibrate the output to a baseline response. Is that clearer? See ya Steve

That's basically what I was trying to say...except that they don't always EQ it to be neutral. Why do you think rap recording are bassy? It's definitely not "neutral".

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Imo there's no such thing as a system with a flat response, not in the studio not at home.

There definitely are studios with flat response. I've worked in a few of them. It can be difficult to achieve flat response in the home because of compromises to liveability; but the flatter you can get it, the closer you are to hearing what the engineer heard when he was mixing the music.

Again, I don't seem to be getting across the concept of the two types of equalization. The head engineer who is in charge of maintaining the room calibrates the sound to be neutral using an equalizer. The recording engineer uses an equalizer creatively to create the balance and contrasts of sounds in his mix. Two different things. I'm talking about using EQ to calibrate, not for creative adjustments. EQing to achieve flat response can only improve the performance of a system. It can't make it worse.

See ya
Steve

 

[stevenkelby]

I've explained it as well as I can.

Sorry if you still don't understand.

 

[brainsalad]

I use 2 EQ's in some of my installations. One that is locked into place and covered with a plastic plate. It is set to adjust for room acoustics and speaker response and reaction to room and placement. The second EQ has a default level of flat, then the user/customer can then play with his settings the way he likes to hear things. But have the one locked in place, he has a way of returning to "baseline" by just setting the EQ flat.

 

[Gautama]

My audio mantra is this:

Keep it pure.


Nothing changes my music, it is best kept in its pure, untainted form.

 

[FooTemps]

I personally don't equalize for the very reason you guys are debating. It takes too much foresight, planning, and understanding to properly make a system 100% neutral. If you have a system that has one source and multiple different components, you have to take into account how each component will colorize sound and how it will synergize. If you swap out components regularly (say you have multiple headphones or amps and to use them all), it becomes a hassle to make different EQs for EVERY combination of components.

 

[eruditass]

at my favorite listening level and environment, no.

at lower listening levels, yes, because the sound perception is different.. refer to a loudness curve.

at non-quiet environments, yes, depending on the frequency isolation response and noise frequencies.

edit: if anyone debates this they are stupid.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gautama /img/forum/go_quote.gif My audio mantra is this: Keep it pure. Nothing changes my music, it is best kept in its pure, untainted form.

That's cool but I'll point out that if you don't EQ you are not listening to your music as accurately as possible. The frequency response you have is un-pure and tainted by the poor frequency response of your system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooTemps /img/forum/go_quote.gif I personally don't equalize for the very reason you guys are debating. It takes too much foresight, planning, and understanding to properly make a system 100% neutral. If you have a system that has one source and multiple different components, you have to take into account how each component will colorize sound and how it will synergize. If you swap out components regularly (say you have multiple headphones or amps and to use them all), it becomes a hassle to make different EQs for EVERY combination of components.

That's not a very valid argument as the vast majority of inaccuracies in FR are in your headphones, or speakers and room. TT too, if you're listening to vinyl (much harder to equalize!)


Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomzDayz /img/forum/go_quote.gif at my favorite listening level and environment, no. at lower listening levels, yes, because the sound perception is different.. refer to a loudness curve. at non-quiet environments, yes, depending on the frequency isolation response and noise frequencies. edit: if anyone debates this they are stupid.

Debate what? I debate the allegation that you actually do the above and am offended by the personal insult.

Mods, please...

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif There definitely are studios with flat response. I've worked in a few of them. It can be difficult to achieve flat response in the home because of compromises to liveability; but the flatter you can get it, the closer you are to hearing what the engineer heard when he was mixing the music. Again, I don't seem to be getting across the concept of the two types of equalization. The head engineer who is in charge of maintaining the room calibrates the sound to be neutral using an equalizer. The recording engineer uses an equalizer creatively to create the balance and contrasts of sounds in his mix. Two different things. I'm talking about using EQ to calibrate, not for creative adjustments. EQing to achieve flat response can only improve the performance of a system. It can't make it worse. See ya Steve

Oh ok...

I thought that it was impossible to achieve that.
If so, then there is no diffrence in sq when using JBL monitors or Tannoys or Genelic's, or wichever, is there..?

When it's flat, it's flat...
I can hardly believe such a thing exists

And even if so, the engineers taste comes in no matter what if you ask me...

I have allways understood that equalizers tend to invert phase (is that spelled correct...?) and introduce other nasties...
How about that then..?

You see, I love to have a "good" equalizer in my system for the "not so good" recordings I have, but thought there was no such thing to be had...
(I am not willing to spend like Quadzillion billion dollars on one though!)

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh ok... I thought that it was impossible to achieve that. If so, then there is no diffrence in sq when using JBL monitors or Tannoys or Genelic's, or wichever, is there..? When it's flat, it's flat... I can hardly believe such a thing exists And even if so, the engineers taste comes in no matter what if you ask me... I have allways understood that equalizers tend to invert phase (is that spelled correct...?) and introduce other nasties... How about that then..? You see, I love to have a "good" equalizer in my system for the "not so good" recordings I have, but thought there was no such thing to be had... (I am not willing to spend like Quadzillion billion dollars on one though!)

There is a whooooole lot more to sound than just frequency response! So no, JBL and Tannoy won't sound the same even if they were both designed and then EQd to have a flat response in a given room.

You can buy EQs that don't mess with the phase etc, some in fact correct the errors in your speakers now. They are expensive though. I like the Rane RPM 26z (around $800) as the starting point. It goes up in price from there.

I haven't seen anything cheaper I would be happy with. That unit is a crossover amongst other things too, so you can EQ and control individual drivers if you have power for them.

 

[BigJohn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a whooooole lot more to sound than just frequency response! So no, JBL and Tannoy won't sound the same even if they were both designed and then EQd to have a flat response in a given room. You can buy EQs that don't mess with the phase etc, some in fact correct the errors in your speakers now. They are expensive though. I like the Rane RPM 26z (around $800) as the starting point. It goes up in price from there. I haven't seen anything cheaper I would be happy with. That unit is a crossover amongst other things too, so you can EQ and control individual drivers if you have power for them.

I would like to try something like the Rane then...

It's not a pricepoint I can't live with if it does what I want

But still my feeling tell's me that if the freq response of different speakers is absolute flat, they should sound the same...

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would like to try something like the Rane then... It's not a pricepoint I can't live with if it does what I want But still my feeling tell's me that if the freq response of different speakers is absolute flat, they should sound the same...

You need to buy parts to measure the response you have also. Figuring out which gear to buy is the easy part of EQ. How to use it is what I am still learning. (Have bought nothing for measurement or EQ yet).

Speakers with the same FR will sound different in ways such as attack and decay etc. Things like the timing of the notes and the accuracy of the tone. Which I guess is also a form of frequency response but as far as I know we can't measure it accurately enough to tell. Things like does a piano sound like a piano? Does a guitar sound like a guitar? The tone of the speakers will be different even though the FR is the same.