Originally Posted by Jorg Don't be so critical to persons with English as a secondary language
Who's being critical? He said I misunderstood. I clearly did not. Nevertheless, I said in my follow up post that perhaps I indeed had misunderstood, but then explained what he had said earlier so that there was no confusion.
Originally Posted by Jorg This theme is not interesting for science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS You lost me there.
I don't understand Russian, but I understand Jorg. Of course cable sound is not very high on the priority list of scientists -- that's why not much research has been done.
Originally Posted by JaZZ I don't understand Russian, but I understand Jorg. Of course cable sound is not very high on the priority list of scientists -- that's why not much research has been done.
Oh, I see. I thought he was referring to Hirsch's post, which contained several items that would seem to be of interest to a number of "scientific" disciplines.
Originally Posted by JaZZ I don't understand Russian, but I understand Jorg. Of course cable sound is not very high on the priority list of scientists -- that's why not much research has been done.
I'm sure studies have been done. Seems like a very interesting topic. Cable companies have the most to gain from the results. How many listening studies do the cable companies refer to? None.
If Sennheiser endorsed the view that cables really make a difference, I believe that they would either offer a model with "audiophile" cables and/or offer "audiophile" cables for 600/650s. If Sennheiser did, *I* would purchase them, A LOT of people would purchase them. Sennheiser profits for a short time would jump. However, guess what they are afraid of long term? That people find out that "audiophile cables" don't make a difference. There is no scientific evidence that people hear a difference. If there is, please post it.
Someone mentioned the HiFi+ article. I have not read it, but appearantly, the editors undermined their own "tests" with some of their statements. Such as cable X should have sounded better for its cost and yes on further listening we did find it to sound better.
Someone posted that someone at Sennheiser wrote back that cables may make a difference in sound. Well, as long as you purchase Sennheiser headphones, they are not too worried what additional purchases a person makes.
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier If Sennheiser endorsed the view that cables really make a difference, I believe that they would either offer a model with "audiophile" cables and/or offer "audiophile" cables for 600/650s. If Sennheiser did, *I* would purchase them, A LOT of people would purchase them. Sennheiser profits for a short time would jump. However, guess what they are afraid of long term? That people find out that "audiophile cables" don't make a difference. There is no scientific evidence that people hear a difference. If there is, please post it.
Someone mentioned the HiFi+ article. I have not read it, but appearantly, the editors undermined their own "tests" with some of their statements. Such as cable X should have sounded better for its cost and yes on further listening we did find it to sound better.
Someone posted that someone at Sennheiser wrote back that cables may make a difference in sound. Well, as long as you purchase Sennheiser headphones, they are not too worried what additional purchases a person makes.
JF
*EDIT* Seperated paragraphs.
I was wondering why senn. doesnt make aftermarket cables. I'm glad you know why senn. doesnt make them. Can you please lead me to the senn. rep that told this, or did you just pull this out of thin air?
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier If Sennheiser endorsed the view that cables really make a difference, I believe that they would either offer a model with "audiophile" cables and/or offer "audiophile" cables for 600/650s. If Sennheiser did, *I* would purchase them . . . .
Surely you jest. I thought your position was that such cables could not possibly make any difference? Isn't your position that if Sennheiser did endorse that view that they would be wrong? Are you now suggesting that, while there is no reason for you to try aftermarket cables and evaluate the issue for yourself with your own ears, if Sennheiser merely says it, you will now believe it? Who are you and what have you done with JF?
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier I'm sure studies have been done. Seems like a very interesting topic. Cable companies have the most to gain from the results.
JF
I would venture that perhaps one of the problems with this assumption is that it might be predicated on the further assumption that a cable company would benefit by proving that aftermarket cables in general make a difference. It seems to me, however, that a particular cable company really only benefits from such a study if they prove that THEIR cables sound better than all the rest, and I think this will be very difficult to establish (as cables invariably are system dependant - note that even with the Senn phones, some prefer the Zu, some the Silver Dragon, etc.), and the results are likely to be subject to interpretation. I would suspect that the cost of such a study outweighs the risks, and also there is little need in any event, since (1) thousands and thousands of potential customers don't need a study to consider their products, and (2) the return policies offered by these vendors allows every consumer to do their own study.
Also, why don't speaker companies do studies that show that their speakers sound better than all the rest?
Originally Posted by tom hankins I was wondering why senn. doesnt make aftermarket cables. I'm glad you know why senn. doesnt make them. Can you please lead me to the senn. rep that told this, or did you just pull this out of thin air?
Did you notice that I wrote "believe...". (I'll admit that I couldn't get through your long post.)
In short, I trust Sennheiser not equip $400 headphones with cables that are inferior or defective.
Originally Posted by JohnFerrier
In short, I trust that Sennheiser to not equip $400 headphones with cables that are inferior or defective.
JF
I just bought a Rio Karma. It includes a pretty cheap earbud. Based on your logic, it must sound as good with the Karma as earbuds or phones costing $200 more (e.g., the Ety ER-4S), as why would Rio include with the product a phone that is "inferior" or "defective"?
Originally Posted by PhilS I would venture that perhaps one of the problems with this assumption is that it might be predicated on the further assumption that a cable company would benefit by proving that aftermarket cables in general make a difference. It seems to me, however, that a particular cable company really only benefits from such a study if they prove that THEIR cables sound better than all the rest, and I think this will be very difficult to establish (as cables invariably are system dependant - note that even with the Senn phones, some prefer the Zu, some the Silver Dragon, etc.), and the results are likely to be subject to interpretation. I would suspect that the cost of such a study outweighs the risks, and also there is little need in any event, since (1) thousands and thousands of potential customers don't need a study to consider their products, and (2) the return policies offered by these vendors allows every consumer to do their own study.
Also, why don't speaker companies do studies that show that their speakers sound better than all the rest?
Hi Phil,
I'm trying to cook Broccoli soup and will try to get back to this...
Originally Posted by PhilS I just bought a Rio Karma. It includes a pretty cheap earbud. Based on your logic, it must sound as good with the Karma as earbuds or phones costing $200 more (e.g., the Ety ER-S), as why would Rio include with the product a phone that is "inferior" or "defective."
Well, $400 cables won't make them sound any better.
Would it stand up in a court of law for someone to say they hear differences in wires, in light of technical evidence that indicates that it is not remotely possible?
Wouldn't the jury desire more evidence that it was possible to hear differences in wires? An independent study?
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