Do you prefer "fun" headphones or "reference" headphones?
Apr 28, 2010 at 11:40 AM Post #196 of 213

Beagle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My point in saying that about these particular people is because if they can't or don't debate the topic using professional terms and language, then it appears to me that they might be lacking the knowledge or experience to have the conversation and to translate what they're hearing. I don't see anything of much substance from them in their previous posts regarding their observations expressed in standard audio terminology.


Rubbish. Have you not read their original reviews? Are you inferring that there is no point in these people attending live music events because they will "not understand what they are hearing" because they lack "knowledge and experience"?

It would appear that it is yourself that has a difficulty to "understand" that not everyone finds favour with the K701. I've got two sets of K701. I like them. Some don't. I will tell people why I like them. They can tell me why they don't. I can live with that. So should you.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 12:02 PM Post #197 of 213

aimlink

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Rubbish. Have you not read their original reviews? Are you inferring that there is no point in these people attending live music events because they will "not understand what they are hearing" because they lack "knowledge and experience"?

It would appear that it is yourself that has a difficulty to "understand" that not everyone finds favour with the K701. I've got two sets of K701. I like them. Some don't. I will tell people why I like them. They can tell me why they don't. I can live with that. So should you.



Acix is being badly misunderstood. English doesn't seem to be his first language and this has a lot to do with it. He's being ganged... I very much dislike what I'm seeing. It's really unnecessary. If you can see his intent, you'll read him differently and it would start with not assuming that he doesn't expect or feel that everyone will find favour with the K701/2.

Too many potentially balanced viewpoints being clouded by heightened emotions. He's not being personal at all, unless he has to deal with a response to one of his posts that is personal. He simply defends himself.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 12:10 PM Post #198 of 213

achristilaw

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I think Acix should use the HD800 and the Phonitor for mixing...he might get a Music Award.....Am I right in assuming you don't record any instrument that isn't plugged into a wall socket?

I'm one that doesn't like the HD800 with Tubes in particular. I have a Moth si2A3/45I and it is fine to good with the 800...just not great.

Balanced from the Dynamid or GSX or even the Beta is preferable to me, that in conjunction with the PWT/PWD....I am enamored by the amount of Fidelity (read:Truth)! Cabling is a MUST (IMO)...

Before age and arthritis (mostly arthritis), I played and strummed guitar and liked to tickle Piano keys (never professionally). I hear truth rendered from the HD800 with the proper associated gear.

It will be a year next month since I have started enjoying these 800's (one hard-wired and balanced with Jena wire the second using base Apuresound wire, single-ended).

Tubes are colored ripe tonally, and are picked because they easily hide shortcomings elsewhere in systems. The HD800 is hamstrung with the limited bandwidth and slow signal tracing...again IMO!

NOW! Back to regular scheduled programming
popcorn.gif
.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 1:23 PM Post #199 of 213

MrGreen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Are you inferring that there is no point in these people attending live music events because they will "not understand what they are hearing" because they lack "knowledge and experience"?


Although I don't think this is what Acix is trying to say, as a jazz musician with a large amount of training I figure I'll pipe up here.

The so-termed intellectualisation of music is a good place to look for this, particularly with 20th century classical and free jazz and post bop jazz, where they fell out of mainstream due to over intellectualisation and, to the average person became more about musical "wanking" than euphony.

I think it is important, and I encourage everyone to go to music events as often as possible (especially acoustic events that dont make use of amplification or speakers) as they will enjoy good music just as much as the next person. The differentiation of course, occurs in the method in which the music being played is understood.

The average person, say, might understand - if I can use a well known album like Kind of Blue being played live -that the music being played live is good because the "cool" and euphony is plainly evident along with other aspects such as technique, particularly if we are going to use the quintet including coltrane and adderley. What they might not understand, however, is the genius in the simplicity of the movement (in terms of the genre) and the way in which miles plays his solos - the title track for example featuring two modes a tone apart (dorian to be precise), which was a clear contrast to the cycle of 4ths used in a large amount of bebop which was falling out of favour. Furthermore, the genius in the concept of simplification in contrast to, say, Ornette Coleman's "The Shape of Jazz to Come" - which in essence complicated jazz by removing many of the limitations - something that fans of Ornette would obviously be aware of (his strange sense of harmony). It was a bit like bringing the imterrupted cadence back into classical music (it had a brief stint in baroque music, but was largely a "romantic era" thing).

Furthermore, the trained jazz musician might understand the Bill Evans voicing that is so distinctive, blah blah blah.

It's a similar thing when talking about mastering. If someone does it for a living - they will obviously talk about things that will go striaght over the heads of the average listener (for example they might comment "you've used a bandpass filter well there" or, "the balance of panning is just right", you could have bumped 30-35hz up a bit higher (kick drum generally)), whereas the average person might simply go "this is a nicely balanced track".

Everyone can enjoy it, but the way they do so is a little different - including from professional to professional or from layperson to layperson.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 3:10 PM Post #200 of 213

shane55

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^^ Uh huh...
Sorry for being picky, but there is no 'title track' on Kind of Blue.

(I expect your reply to be "So What?")
atsmile.gif


shane
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 6:37 AM Post #201 of 213

Acix

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Since the HD800's can to you, sound 'better' with tubes, can't cans that you consider to be truly reference grade, be made to sound out of balance because of the gear in use?


Yes, of course. But it would be more easy to start from a reference point and from there to identify the coloration of the other components in the chain. Most headphones will keep their sound characteristics across the board to some degree. For example, take your 650. You can drive them with a bright system and they will get more treble energy, but the low mid won't totally disappear.

BTW, you're right. America is my third continent and English is my third language, so I do have a hard time expressing myself. For example, in other languages, questions are presented in the opposite way as they are in English, but I'm working hard on being more clear and precise.
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 6:47 AM Post #202 of 213

Acix

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Although I don't think this is what Acix is trying to say, as a jazz musician with a large amount of training I figure I'll pipe up here.

The so-termed intellectualisation of music is a good place to look for this, particularly with 20th century classical and free jazz and post bop jazz, where they fell out of mainstream due to over intellectualisation and, to the average person became more about musical "wanking" than euphony.

I think it is important, and I encourage everyone to go to music events as often as possible (especially acoustic events that dont make use of amplification or speakers) as they will enjoy good music just as much as the next person. The differentiation of course, occurs in the method in which the music being played is understood.

The average person, say, might understand - if I can use a well known album like Kind of Blue being played live -that the music being played live is good because the "cool" and euphony is plainly evident along with other aspects such as technique, particularly if we are going to use the quintet including coltrane and adderley. What they might not understand, however, is the genius in the simplicity of the movement (in terms of the genre) and the way in which miles plays his solos - the title track for example featuring two modes a tone apart (dorian to be precise), which was a clear contrast to the cycle of 4ths used in a large amount of bebop which was falling out of favour. Furthermore, the genius in the concept of simplification in contrast to, say, Ornette Coleman's "The Shape of Jazz to Come" - which in essence complicated jazz by removing many of the limitations - something that fans of Ornette would obviously be aware of (his strange sense of harmony). It was a bit like bringing the imterrupted cadence back into classical music (it had a brief stint in baroque music, but was largely a "romantic era" thing).

Furthermore, the trained jazz musician might understand the Bill Evans voicing that is so distinctive, blah blah blah.

It's a similar thing when talking about mastering. If someone does it for a living - they will obviously talk about things that will go striaght over the heads of the average listener (for example they might comment "you've used a bandpass filter well there" or, "the balance of panning is just right", you could have bumped 30-35hz up a bit higher (kick drum generally)), whereas the average person might simply go "this is a nicely balanced track".

Everyone can enjoy it, but the way they do so is a little different - including from professional to professional or from layperson to layperson.



Wow, that was a great explanation and I think illustrated a very strong point. I got lost in the jazz jargon and techniques, but I'm sure many other people here know exactly what you're talking about were inspired by and appreciated your description. At the end of the day, it's always good to learn something new.

And yes, I do strongly encourage people to get out and participate in and experience live music as much as possible. It's food for the soul and no matter how much or how little knowledge and experience one has, it will only serve to enrich and develop a stronger appreciation for the magic in music and sound.
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 7:17 AM Post #203 of 213

Acix

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Quote:

Originally Posted by achristilaw /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think Acix should use the HD800 and the Phonitor for mixing...he might get a Music Award.....Am I right in assuming you don't record any instrument that isn't plugged into a wall socket?

I'm one that doesn't like the HD800 with Tubes in particular. I have a Moth si2A3/45I and it is fine to good with the 800...just not great.

Balanced from the Dynamid or GSX or even the Beta is preferable to me, that in conjunction with the PWT/PWD....I am enamored by the amount of Fidelity (read:Truth)! Cabling is a MUST (IMO)...

Before age and arthritis (mostly arthritis), I played and strummed guitar and liked to tickle Piano keys (never professionally). I hear truth rendered from the HD800 with the proper associated gear.

It will be a year next month since I have started enjoying these 800's (one hard-wired and balanced with Jena wire the second using base Apuresound wire, single-ended).

Tubes are colored ripe tonally, and are picked because they easily hide shortcomings elsewhere in systems. The HD800 is hamstrung with the limited bandwidth and slow signal tracing...again IMO!

NOW! Back to regular scheduled programming
popcorn.gif
.




Sorry to hear that arthritis has halted your playing, but on the bright side, you are hear, you have a musical background and now you might have an even deeper appreciation for music. I don't know if I'm going to get any kind of music award in the near future, but I put my faith in the future generations. I'm happy that I can help them achieve their dreams and it's really inspiring to see them reaching success. Here's a video of one of my recent client, Meghan Trainor's current projects. She's a quite talented 16 year old singer/songwriter and producer who has already won some nice awards this year.


ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

 
Apr 29, 2010 at 9:37 AM Post #204 of 213

aimlink

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sorry to hear that arthritis has halted your playing, but on the bright side, you are hear, you have a musical background and now you might have an even deeper appreciation for music. I don't know if I'm going to get any kind of music award in the near future, but I put my faith in the future generations. I'm happy that I can help them achieve their dreams and it's really inspiring to see them reaching success. Here's a video of one of my recent client, Meghan Trainor's current projects. She's a quite talented 16 year old singer/songwriter and producer who has already won some nice awards this year.


She certainly has an well rendered, engaging voice in that recording.
smily_headphones1.gif
The talent is definitely there. All the best to her.
 
Apr 29, 2010 at 10:33 AM Post #205 of 213

MrGreen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shane55 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
^^ Uh huh...
Sorry for being picky, but there is no 'title track' on Kind of Blue.

(I expect your reply to be "So What?")
atsmile.gif


shane



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Quote:

Originally Posted by achristilaw /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Before age and arthritis (mostly arthritis), I played and strummed guitar and liked to tickle Piano keys (never professionally). I hear truth rendered from the HD800 with the proper associated gear.


I've been hit with arthritis and had a long bout with RSI when I was at the conservatorium still (I have the beginnings of carpel tunnel in my left wrist; that old "knot through the wrist hole" sound.), and I am still very young (I am 20, which may shock you).

Still, I think theres a lot of opportunities for me to look into other mediums like cool jazz or funk, and I'm also getting a bit into electronic music which is quite slow on the fingers for a lot of things. Needless to say, continuing down the harbop path wouldn't be wise, so I'm in the process of canning it.
 
May 9, 2010 at 9:01 PM Post #206 of 213

Slaughter

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Fact - No one on this forum knows what reference is because it isn't defined.
Fact - No one on this forum knows what colored is, because you weren't in the studio when the recording was made and mastered.
Fact - Music has bass and depending on the instruments, its deep and powerful. Very few headphones, if any, can present an entire song as the instruments really sound, including impact.
 
Even the best digital SLR camera doesn't have the dynamic range of the eye. Same with headphones and a recording. Not to mentions all ears are different.
 
So Fun versus Reference is a ridiculous discussion. Ford vs Chevy?
 
 
 
May 9, 2010 at 9:44 PM Post #210 of 213

TheGame21x

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I want fun. Of course, that doesn't mean I want bass cannons at the expense of the rest of the sonic spectrum but when I listen to my music, I want to be entertained and "fun" sounding headphones are just better than reference headphones for that purpose.
 
At least, in my opinion...
 

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