Do you prefer "fun" headphones or "reference" headphones?
Apr 28, 2010 at 1:39 AM Post #181 of 213

LFF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The HD800 rig I've got? No "audiophile hocus pocus." Natural sounding stuff.


Man...now you got me wanting to hear that combo.
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Apr 28, 2010 at 2:25 AM Post #183 of 213

LFF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif
at least we can all agree that headphones are better if they say digital ready on the box


LOL!
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Apr 28, 2010 at 2:35 AM Post #184 of 213

cAsE sEnSiTiVe

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My Canon printer is digital ready, and it sounds DAMN good! Reference...if you will.
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Apr 28, 2010 at 3:12 AM Post #185 of 213

rhythmdevils

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no, sorry, you don't know what you're talking about and i do. I have had my head up briney spears' butt for 5 hours now, and from what I am seeing, Epson is definitely the reference. It just gets the browns saturated better. You don't have enough experience putting your head up people's butts to know.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 3:21 AM Post #186 of 213

MrGreen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Do you enjoy amusing yourself often with acronyms that only you understand? Pretty infantile.


It's an alteration of YAVALP (Yet another Valiente post), as both you and he seemingly post the same thing repeatedly


Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Subjective.


The way in which you have used the term "hearing defficiency" is derogatory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Wrong.


No, it's correct. Less misinformation please. If someone was to come from a headphone severely lacking bass to an HD800 it would most definitely have "subwoofer like qualities".

Of course you would have no problem if someone said this about the D2000 coming from a bass-deficient headphone because it is not a headphone you own and thus outside your own personal agenda. This may or may not be fueled by your personal beliefs about denon headphones.


Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I didn't provide any.


The implication you made thinly veiled through the guise of an insult was quite wrong and shows a lack of experience in mixing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's pretty fresh coming from you. We already covered this in the other thread. Please put me on your ignore list and don't bother addressing me in the future.


If I can borrow a phrase from the prophet subtle, here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
as tempted as I am to make you the first person I have ever put on an ignore list in any discussion forum I just can't bring myself to do it. Why? Simply because your posts are always full of false information and therefore a barrel of laughs. I also can't bring myself to allow you to deceive those new to head-fi, so I will continue to carry the torch that I use to constantly burn down the piles of bs you build all over this forum.


Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please learn to decipher between the words had, have, and heard. Nowhere in my profile have I listed every headphone I have heard.


I threw this little nugget in for my own benefit. Having chosen to insult me based on this - you have now admitted that it is impossible to know what headphones someone has heard if the information is not provided. As such, you owe me an appology for the disgrace you caused in the other thread based purely on presumption and subjectivity.

Not to mention this fabulous statement of yours.
Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Unlike yourself I can actually speak from experience and not from reading other users impressions, or merely sampling said headphones in awful meet conditions.


The shoe is on the other foot. You lose again, and in glorious fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Selective interpretation is a wonderful thing.


Until it comes back and bites you

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If a reference headphone isn't fun to listen to, it's not a reference headphone. Analytical sound is a coloration and isn't accurate. Musicality is inherent to the music, and if a phone fails to capture that, well then it's the phone's problem.


How can a simple machine "suck emotion" out of music? A perfectly flat response on a very fast headphone should convey the music and emotion that is in the recording, rather than accenting it like other headphones.

Sure, if a headphone only produces 500-505Hz, then sure, but we're talking about abled headphones.

I agree that what you say may indeed be valid for you, but to call it a colouration would be incorrect (unless you are talking about problems related to frequency response such as severe mid deficiency rather than being "analytical"). If anything, I disagree with your "0" point, as we really need a clearer definition of what "no change to emotion" is.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 3:21 AM Post #187 of 213

beamthegreat

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A combination of both. Thats why I am going to buy an HD800 and build a M3 amp with bass boost.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 7:25 AM Post #188 of 213

Acix

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Acix, I'm not here to change your mind. But let's just say you say a lot I disagree with. Some of the reactions to some of what you post I sort of understand, as you're telling people (like me) we don't understand what we're hearing.

Listen, man, if you think the HD280 is more natural sounding than the HD800, I'm not going to argue with you--and I also won't tell you you're wrong if that's how you hear it, because I believe that's how you hear it (though I certainly do not). But don't try to sell me on the notion that you're more qualified to know what I can and can't hear, as I'm not buying that either. I know what I'm hearing, and I know not everyone will agree with it. When people don't agree with you, you seem to suggest (or say outright) they simply don't know what they're hearing or what they speak of, and/or suggest that you're more qualified to know.

The HD800 rig I've got? No "audiophile hocus pocus." Natural sounding stuff. You may not hear it that way, but don't tell me I don't understand what I'm hearing. I've been around a while.



Jude, I feel like I'm having a deja vu, here. I think I already answered you. And if I remember correctly, you asked to be added to the list of people who don't understand what they're hearing. It wasn't me who included you in that group. I don't have any reason to believe you don't know what you're talking about.

My point in saying that about these particular people is because if they can't or don't debate the topic using professional terms and language, then it appears to me that they might be lacking the knowledge or experience to have the conversation and to translate what they're hearing. I don't see anything of much substance from them in their previous posts regarding their observations expressed in standard audio terminology. What I hear more than anything is a lot of negativity, spite and malice.

I don't claim to be perfect. I'm not on this forum to insult people and contrary to some opinions, I don't have an agenda other than to share and receive information. I share my experiences here and I have said this many times before; I don't expect people to agree with me, but I always recommend that people try for themselves and see, especially vintage headphones that have more of a natural and balanced sound. This topic is great, it really illustrates my point about the reference issue. You'll see other qualified members agree with me and had similar experiences as I've had. You don't have to agree, but some do. Doesn't matter to me either way.

The duality on this forum is really apparent in this thread. There are some who seem to be here to genuinely discuss their experience with each other and to share strong ideals that unite and inspire the group. Then there are some who seem to be caught up in low energy drama games that do nothing but sap the energy and take the focus off the topic and onto a personal agenda. Of course everyone chooses, consciously or otherwise, which camp they want to be in.

Back to the topic. To me, the HD-280 is an awful headphone in terms of comfort. I can only wear them for a few minutes. It feels like the clamping force was designed by the Inquisition for torturing people with big heads like me. But, I have to be honest and admit that these headphones have great balance. If you have a small head, you might be able to use them for more than 5 minutes. Yes, of course, the 800 has better sound resolution, but resolution isn't necessarily what's going to make it sound more natural. More smooth, sure, but natural? You can take examples of old natural sound standards like the K-1000, DT48 and the Fostex T20. Don't they deserve to be natural in their own way?

If you want, we can do a test. Take the HD-280 and the HD-800 to an audio engineering school and give them to a student to do a mix with and see which hp gives a more balanced mix, as a reference.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 7:46 AM Post #191 of 213

Ham Sandwich

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If you want, we can do a test. Take the HD-280 and the HD-800 to an audio engineering school and give them to a student to do a mix with and see which hp gives a more balanced mix, as a reference.


The second test will be which headphone the student wants to take home to listen to to get more familiar with, you know, as a reference.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 7:57 AM Post #192 of 213

Acix

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The second test will be which headphone the student wants to take home to listen to to get more familiar with, you know, as a reference.


Easy, the shiny/sparkly one.
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Apr 28, 2010 at 10:46 AM Post #193 of 213

aimlink

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Easy, the shiny/sparkly one.
tongue.gif



Despite all the emotional melodrama, I'm happy the thread has taken the turn it has, i.e., an attention to the focal point. The focal point being what's 'reference sound'???

From my POV, reference sound should be like the real thing in tonal balance and timbre. Whenever I'm listening to music, 95% or more of the times, I'm listening to a recording. I don't know for sure whether or not that recording is of reference quality unless I listen to it with reference equipment and end up with reference sound at the output.

Once I can trust my gear as being able to produce reference sound from a reference input, I can now listen to recordings knowing that if there's a deviation from good balance and timbre, then the recording is faulty in some way. It's not the case where I'm not happy with what I'm hearing, so I take the cans off and stare at them wondering if they're coloured in some way, while at the same time I'm wondering if it could be the recording.

On the background of this is our ability to acclimatize and grow to love an unbalanced sound presentation. If that's all you're accustomed to, then it will become your point of reference. So again, I'm wondering how many here really set out to listen to and familiarise themselves with what's reference sound that's not marketed to please the audiophile, but marketed to please the individual interested in reference sound and not having as a prerequisite.... a love for what he/she is hearing. This sounds like the domain of the audio engineer or a special audio enthusiast. Though there are many here who spend a lot on gear and own a lot of gear, there seem to be few who have a genuine handle on reference sound characteristics... otherwise, opinions wouldn't vary so much on this matter.

I'd not read promo descriptions and readily believe them either.... even from Sennheiser or AKG.
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Apr 28, 2010 at 11:05 AM Post #194 of 213

Mato

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wow this made me lol.
 
Apr 28, 2010 at 11:17 AM Post #195 of 213

aimlink

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, I agree, [the HD800's] sound better with the tubes, but then other faults stand out more. I imagine they would sound great if they were adjusted and balanced to the right equipment. And tube amps have a lot of variables that can be adjusted.


Since the HD800's can to you, sound 'better' with tubes, can't cans that you consider to be truly reference grade, be made to sound out of balance because of the gear in use?
 

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