[TMC]

More info isn't always a good thing, especially since the info lacks any personal opinion and is simply a repetition of what one have read. That I think is the very foundation of where the "hype" or "flavour of the month" that we all know is created. If 100 people recommend a headphone because they have experience with it that's just fine with me. But if 80 of those people are "recommending" based on simply what the 20 other people have experience of, then that messes up any kind of general opinion one might perceive from reading on the forum. With opinions being as diverse as it already is I don't see how we need more than actual personal experiences. It's already a pain do to a search for well-based opinions since you get all "the general consensus say this or that" posts that you have to weed out.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax If the person i'm giving this information to doesn't want to take a "second hand" opinion - which in reality could be just as useful as a "first hand" opinion - seriously, then that's up to them to decide. But knowledge is knowledge.

As long as there's a plainly stated caveat that it's second hand info then the reader has the option of giving the second hand info less weight. But too many people here don't do that, they present 2nd hand info as if it is certainly the gospel truth.

Knowledge is knowledge, unless of course it's just urban legend.

Sorry for being so touchy about this, but that's the way I feel, and hearing the arguments in this thread against 2nd hand opinion giving has me even more convinced that it is generally a bad thing.

 

[1UP]

Maybe it's time for a new headfi acronym: INHT

[size=xx-large]I[/size]'ve [size=xx-large]N[/size]ever [size=xx-large]H[/size]eard [size=xx-large]T[/size]hem

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC More info isn't always a good thing, especially since the info lacks any personal opinion and is simply a repetition of what one have read. That I think is the very foundation of where the "hype" or "flavour of the month" that we all know is created. If 100 people recommend a headphone because they have experience with it that's just fine with me. But if 80 of those people are "recommending" based on simply what the 20 other people have experience of, then that messes up any kind of general opinion one might perceive from reading on the forum. With opinions being as diverse as it already is I don't see how we need more than actual personal experiences. It's already a pain do to a search for well-based opinions since you get all "the general consensus say this or that" posts that you have to weed out.

I understand what you're saying, but you're going to find that that's the case dealing with everything. I think though when someone is upfront about the fact they haven't heard them, but the've talked to so many people or read so many reviews and they all, or most, say this or that, then it DOES help the person in need.

I mean, what's REALLY wrong with repeating reviews or what other's have said? It's when you start taking those opinions as your own without ever hearing the phones is the problem. And i think as long as everyone can differentiate between the two, then repeating information learned is a good and healthy thing. There is that thing called "word of mouth" where if something's good or bad, the word gets spread. And with its spreading there's bound to be a few 'bandwagon hopper's' that'll be on-board without even ever trying them.

But ask yourself this: What's better? Someone who's read hundreds of reviews, and repeated what he's got out of them. Or somoeone who's brand new to the headphone world and has tried like 5 headphones and gives a rave review on the phones?

I'd take the former, especially if he's upfront about it.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earwax As long as there's a plainly stated caveat that it's second hand info then the reader has the option of giving the second hand info less weight. But too many people here don't do that, they present 2nd hand info as if it is certainly the gospel truth. Knowledge is knowledge, unless of course it's just urban legend. Sorry for being so touchy about this, but that's the way I feel, and hearing the arguments in this thread against 2nd hand opinion giving has me even more convinced that it is generally a bad thing.

Yeah, but i've seen people take any ONE person's opinion as the "gospel truth" too. Neither is good. I think you just have to get as much information as possible from as many sources as possible. The idea that everyone is lying or that everyone opinion won't jive with your own isn't very likely to happen. Not when an overwhelming majority say "i HAVE tried these and they're great" or "I've read alot of reviews, and all the reviews say they're great!".

And it is tough figuring out who's trying to help and who's just pushing their pet cans, so to speak.

Well, i still think it is a GOOD thing that can be handled, and DOES get handled badly. I've had people tell me before "well, i know this one guy, and he says this is amazing" and i'll talk to that one guy only to find out, sure enough HE says they're amazing. Usually the second party don't lie. They have no reason to and they (usually) gain nothing from it.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earwax Maybe it's time for a companion poll, asking readers if they want second hand answers?

Agreed ... we can suggest that "most readers say they want informed opinions".

 

[TMC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax I understand what you're saying, but you're going to find that that's the case dealing with everything. I think though when someone is upfront about the fact they haven't heard them, but the've talked to so many people or read so many reviews and they all, or most, say this or that, then it DOES help the person in need. I mean, what's REALLY wrong with repeating reviews or what other's have said? It's when you start taking those opinions as your own without ever hearing the phones is the problem. And i think as long as everyone can differentiate between the two, then repeating information learned is a good and healthy thing. There is that thing called "word of mouth" where if something's good or bad, the word gets spread. And with its spreading there's bound to be a few 'bandwagon hopper's' that'll be on-board without even ever trying them. But ask yourself this: What's better? Someone who's read hundreds of reviews, and repeated what he's got out of them. Or somoeone who's brand new to the headphone world and has tried like 5 headphones and gives a rave review on the phones? I'd take the former, especially if he's upfront about it.

Frankly I don't see how someone needs help by getting second-hand info in this case, since head-fi is that active an forum that someone with personal experience will reply to the thread without too long a delay anyway. On the other hand all the repeating of others' experiences does blow things out of proportion as someone will repeat that and making it a 3rd hand info, then someone else will read that and repeat it etc. It's just a lot of text without proper context and will drown the actual reviews and opinions of people who's actually tried the equipment. Just do a search for threads concerning any headphone that's discussed somewhat often and you'll already see plenty of non-personal experience replies you'll get that really does not help at all for someone looking for a well-based opinion.

As for your last question, I'd very much prefer someone who's heard the headphone to write about it, no matter how little experience he/she has in general with headphones. That's an opinion with actual experience, and if he/she compares with something else they own it's even more valuable. Reading hundreds of others' reviews and repeating their opinions without ever being even in the same room as said headphones is to me really a waste of server space.

 

[TheMedic00]

This phenomenon is one of the things I dislike most about Head-Fi. I didn't realize it was so common when I was first here, but now that I do, I can make sure to take some recommendations with several grains of salt. However, new members are the ones that suffer most from this, IMO, since they are asking for advice and don't realize that some of the information they're getting is nothing more than regurgitated opinions.
That said, this place is still the best place on the internet for headphone info.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC Frankly I don't see how someone needs help by getting second-hand info in this case, since head-fi is that active an forum that someone with personal experience will reply to the thread without too long a delay anyway. On the other hand all the repeating of others' experiences does blow things out of proportion as someone will repeat that and making it a 3rd hand info, then someone else will read that and repeat it etc. It's just a lot of text without proper context and will drown the actual reviews and opinions of people who's actually tried the equipment. Just do a search for threads concerning any headphone that's discussed somewhat often and you'll already see plenty of non-personal experience replies you'll get that really does not help at all for someone looking for a well-based opinion. As for your last question, I'd very much prefer someone who's heard the headphone to write about it, no matter how little experience he/she has in general with headphones. That's an opinion with actual experience, and if he/she compares with something else they own it's even more valuable. Reading hundreds of others' reviews and repeating their opinions without ever being even in the same room as said headphones is to me really a waste of server space.

I can certainly understand what you're saying, but i think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I wonder how many people this whole second hand information thing has hurt vs how many it's helped. Without the exact number we'll never know for sure. And when you're asking on here, and then buying without trying, even with any opinions you're still kind of shooting in the dark.

 

[TMC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax I can certainly understand what you're saying, but i think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I wonder how many people this whole second hand information thing has hurt vs how many it's helped. Without the exact number we'll never know for sure. And when you're asking on here, and then buying without trying, even with any opinions you're still kind of shooting in the dark.

Yeah where you find it helpful I think it does a lot more damage than good in the long run. As for buying without trying, real experience opinions will always help more than non-experience opinions

 

[Jap]

[size=small]Would I recommend phones I've never actually, actually heard? Why not!?! It's not my money!!!

I have been with this forum for only a couple years, and have been posting for a little more than one. I have recommended (or perhaps "suggested" is a better term) phones I haven't heard in the past, using the prevailing forum opinions as a guide.

That came virtually to an end with my first Head-fi meet last October (2003) in Chicago. There I eagerly listened to phones that were considered high end by many ... only to find I was extremely disappointed in their sound. Other phones were a delightful surprise. I fully realize that meet conditions are not necessarily ideal conditions for auditioning gear, Still, its hard to argue with what is bouncing off your own eardrums.

Since that first meet, I still have very occasionally offered sugestions, but I tend to now restrict these to "safe" selections where there is a known house sound or family sonics. However, with the next meet I will be attending within a couple weekends, I expect to find myself recommending even less unsampled gear as I continue to refine my own high fidelity druthers and get even more & more picky with sounds.[/size]

 

[raif]

The only headphone I remember recommending is the AT a500. I really haven't seen much difference up and down the AT line in terms of sound quality so it is my usual $100 price point closed phone recommendation.

 

[KenW]

Nope. I'd feel ignorant making comments about cans I'd never heard. Somewhat surprised the number of folks saying yes was so high. Of course, maybe they're relaying what a reliable source has told them about the phones. To each his own I suppose.

 

[TrevorNetwork]

Quote:

The only headphone I remember recommending is the AT a500. I really haven't seen much difference up and down the AT line in terms of sound quality so it is my usual $100 price point closed phone recommendation.

I feel the ATH-W2002 is a far superior headphone to the ATH-A900. Anyone that has heard my system agreed. Perhaps your reference system lacked the resolution to distinguish between them. I can easily distinguish between the ATH-A900, ATH-W2002, and ATH-W11R.

 

[marios_mar]

I have posted once that HD580s and SR60s are the best bang for the buck headphones. Back then I had not heard the SR60s but I had read a lot of stuff on and off headfi.

Does that count?