[thrawn86]

perhaps a better question would have been "is *popular* rap 'music' ?

ie: 50 cent, etc. Certainly fits the definition of music, however the lyrics are thoroughly disgusting and degrading to women.

I have heard some interesting rap stuff... but NOT 98% of what is played on the radio.

 

[Beach123456]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrawn86 perhaps a better question would have been "is *popular* rap 'music' ? ie: 50 cent, etc. Certainly fits the definition of music, however the lyrics are thoroughly disgusting and degrading to women. I have heard some interesting rap stuff... but NOT 98% of what is played on the radio.

All rap is music, whether you like it or not.

 

[augustwest]

Do you consider rap to be "music"?

To answer the question, NO. I would be as generous as calling it "poetry to a beat". . . . . I think it's no coincidence that "rap", rhymes with "crap". . . . just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

- augustwest

 

[Svperstar]

Wow I am way late to this train.

I will say yes it is music, any "noise people pay money to listen too" can be defined as music. There is an electronic artists called Merzbow that is reguarded as the "king of noise" and his music really sounds like TV static amped like 100 times over and someone jamming a trashcan full of screws through a garbage disposal mixed together, I cant stand him but I think it is music under the definition above.

I do think rap is boring, childish, shallow, one dimentional and I don't understand how anyone that comes to headfi and values audio quality could listen too it other than something to give you a bit of energy to get ready to go out or something.

 

[so_cal_forever]

IMO, it depends on the artist or type of rap to define whether it's music or not. 50 Cent, to me, seems like talking with a beat or rythym in the background. There are some types of rap in which a band of people create the music or the rapper puts a lot of hard work into the vocals. In my honest opinion, music is something that takes effort to make. Some of these guys are just getting paid to get on the mic, talk about bootie calls or puffin' the stuff and get equal or more money than other artists who put in a lot more effort.

Again, is rap music? Some of it is. The rest that isnt is not as deserving of merit as the rap that is good and the rest of music that is good.

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar I will say yes it is music, any "noise people pay money to listen too" can be defined as music.

LOL talk about a modern capitalistic definition of music... but what about free music like at music festivals?

 

[K271 Guy]

comment when you watch this

 

[wakeride74]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orubasarot This is the most dumb Head-Fi thread ever made, it's a shame because it makes me look down on the otherwise decent community. How many more of you comedian cretins are going to vomit up the "RAP RHYMES WITH CRAP" line? You morons are judging the genre and toying with an intangible label ("music") while your frame of reference is about as limited as someone assuming acoustic/rock music can be adequately represented by Limp Bizkit and Creed. Opinions are great and all, but some make you look like a mildly dumb, tasteless, uncultured bigot. Edit: Also all the bickering regarding production and music theory is hillarious, there was a post where someone was pointing out all the instruments used in hip hop. That's like saying all electronic music is just a bunch of beeps and bloops sequenced by a German heroin addict. Some people here are practically saying it's a crime not to follow music theory. Guess what, Norah Jones or whatever you hi-fi geeks fancy is still a product of experimental tinkering with traditional music theory and pop influence.

Ahhhh.... now we have the race card and the name calling together...who did you say looks dumb??? Can't even debate without mean spirited attacks and name calling???

Here's a news flash for you... everyone listens to music differently. Someone who studied classical music may hear things different than someone who grew up playing Honky Tonks in Memphis, bare knuckle rock bars in LA, or SF Jazz clubs.
The Blue Man group in Vegas uses only percussive ensembles to make music but they keep the ears interested with lots of changes in tempo, attack, and many other aspects of their music. To someone that thrives on harmony and melody this may be annoying, to others it may dazzle. It all boils down to how it is heard and received by each person. While rap may be blissful to some it may be repetitious or too vulgar for others.

I think anyone who can be labeled as a "musician" in essence creates "music". As far as the term "music to my ears" rap is not so for me and many others here. Sweeping statements about "uncultured bigots" with respect to rap and the musical debate over it's defining characteristics seems to lean ignorantly in the direction of racial talent being genre specific. Maybe I assume too much but that's how you come across with your name calling and racial tone.

P.S Limp Bizkit and Creed suck

 

[K271 Guy]

you don't leave any material for the finish?.....or does the canned cycle automatically does it?....how does that work/?

 

[Factor]

wakeride -- For casual listeners who only listen to music now and then for background entertainment the argument about cultural setting holds true (no sense in hearing new things if you don't really care about music anyway), but for people like us -- who invest lots of time and money into improving our music enrichment -- I think we're cheating ourselves if we don't find ways to crush those cultural constrictions.

I was afflicted with "rap is crap" syndrome for much of my childhood life but when music piracy exploded into the big time I got exposed to way more of it and stumbled upon things I actually liked, which transformed me so that now I like a lot of the stuff I wouldn't even give a chance before. I also grew up never hearing any country and thought it was for rednecks only, and later in my life I saw this as a problem so I went searching for a touchpoint and I found it in Johnny Cash and am currently looking to dig deeper. I knew nothing of jazz and was generally bored by its directionless noodling, so I had my friend recommend me albums until I found a touchpoint in Chuck Mingus, and gradually I became a jazz fan. Classical music seemed like a dense jungle of snobbery to me until just a few weeks ago when I let Kraftwerk's tribute track "Franz Schubert" lead me to Schubert himself, whose music I found out I really enjoy, and now I'm really excited about the prospects ahead. Always was bored by reggae but I found out I totally dig rocksteady. And I've even taken some blind stabs at getting into world music with some Gamelan and some traditional Chinese. Hell, by now I've even found touchpoints in American Top 40 pop music, something I NEVER thought I'd dig.

If I had stayed true to the idea that peoples' cultural backgrounds just make it near-impossible for them to see certain types of music as anything but weird, boring, offensive, or otherwise not worthwhile, I can't even imagine the musical enjoyment I'd be missing.

 

[LFF]

Just want to put in my two cents.

Music can be defined as an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner. So is the genre known as rap considered music under this definition? The answer is a definite yes. It definitely serves as a form of artistic communication and it does incorporate vocals and instruments (be them real or electronic). Rap is definitely structured and continuous. Moreover, rap is not only music but part of a larger cultural phenomenon which has occurred during this past century.

As for me, rap is nothing more than synchronized noise with poor vocal accompaniment. Some of it can rather good and one can often find oneself tapping your feet to the beat. For me rap is just a recent phenomenon which may or may not survive the passage of time. Rap seems to be made specifically for a mass audience which falls prey to the influences of advertising and peer pressure and which grew up amassing hours spent watching MTV. Rhyming words is definitely a talent but I know 10 year olds who can rhyme rather well. I know no 10 year olds who can play Beethoven well.

I prefer to call Jazz and Classical genres real music as it requires talent which few can achieve at an early age. Both have survived a number of years (especially classical) and both see new faces playing both standards and continuing the line of original pieces within the existing genre.

So, in conclusion, rap is music, but not for me.

 

[K271 Guy]

what does USQ mean?

 

[Factor]

LFF -- I disagree about the value of music having to do with the difficulty of actually performing it. I have heard some ridiculously fast hard rock guitar solos that very few people in the world could pull off, but that happen to only work for me in a technical, empirical, wow-that-guy-has-fast-hands sort of way. Stuff like that leaves me technically impressed but musically lacking, and at the same time I could get a whole lot of musical enjoyment out of a simple funk drumline that almost anyone would be able to imitate with a few minutes of practice.

Anyone in the world is capable of splattering paint frantically across a canvas, but that doesn't mean Jackson Pollock's paintings aren't beautiful.

 

[wakeride74]

Ok... This is for Factor & Orubasarot

I think you guys are really misunderstanding the intention of this thread. First off THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CULTURE OR RACE!!! This is about SOUND and what people consider to be music or what I should have said "Musical".
I do not see color or culture when I am listening to music; it is only about what I am hearing. (Oh and Orubasarot - "uncultured bigot" = race card)

I may be listening to something really heavy like Mudvayne or Slipknot and be thinking "this is great music", while my wife will say "this just sounds like screaming noise... it's not music."
The only thing this thread was intended to do is ask that question: "what do you consider music?" Based on elements that most music genre's have and your own opinion of what you think defines it? Does rap fit that definition? The same question could be asked about less popular genres like a cappella choir music since it does not possess any rhythm/percussion and is strictly vocal.

There is some rap that I can really appreciate (very little) but just like in the analogy above what one person hears as music another may not so the definition is.... or I should say "the beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

If there is a general feel to most rap or hip-hop that does not appeal to me why would I have any interest in searching for something I like? That is a pretty normal thing... If someone has tried a few different types of fish and they didn't care for it they will not keep going to seafood restaurants looking for something they'll like.
It would be really boring if everyone had the same opinions and liked the same music. I am very grateful for so many different types of music we have in the world, it keeps things interesting.

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 Ok... This is for Factor & Orubasarot I think you guys are really misunderstanding the intention of this thread. First off THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CULTURE OR RACE!!! This is about SOUND and what people consider to be music or what I should have said "Musical". I do not see color or culture when I am listening to music; it is only about what I am hearing. (Oh and Orubasarot - "uncultured bigot" = race card)

...but you must have realized that by ridiculing (read: should it be considered to be music) a genre dominated by one subculture in society, you would, by association, be ridiculing that subculture.