[Beagle]

Quote:

also that the journey we undertake to learn more about them (headphones?) can be as rewarding, or even more so, as possessing them

I started with a quote from another thread to get this underway. We don't want to learn about headphones any more than we want to learn about the great restaurant meal we are about to enjoy. We want to enjoy our music. If we have to seek to find out why something makes us enjoy something, then we destroy the whole point.

That is one of the side effects of a headphone community board where there is so much information. The information takes over, we spend too much time discussing, not enough listening. We get ten threads about Etymotics or Grado or whatever, and it makes you really wonder if people actually enjoy the sound of music or the sound of the headphone. And I am one of the worst "offenders" at times. One would think that if the headphone really got you immersed and lost in the music, we would disappear from this board for weeks on end.

Of course, we could be listening while posting information but are we truly lost in the music? No. If we are distracted then we may as well be wearing a cheap $20 phone. It's the same as when you are having dinner and you can't enjoy your food because the person you are with insists on talking and making you talk. You don't get to taste anything. I eat while they talk and ignore what they are saying, then I change the subject.

But everyone enjoys music or they wouldn't be here, right? Yet it is an intensely personal and individual experience. We all react in the same manner to whatever stimulates or pleases us, but on an individual basis. Quite frequently you will get topics started such as "My Etys arrived!" followed by "Congratulations" from many of us. This reminds me of the birth column in the newspaper
"It's a boy" followed by congratulations from friends and family. And then members put their phones up for adoption in search for something better. This is wrong, unless you are offering to those who can't have headphones. It shows lack of commitment and judgement. Joelongwood has the right approach, no "birth" control and have as many phones as you can afford, but look after all of them and show no favouritism. Sometimes I look at my CD and LP collection, then at my stereo, and I ask myself what is all this plastic doing for me, for my soul? Then I go back to when I was a kid and how I was completely satisfied musically and emotionally with some 45's and a little rinky-dink record player. I played those records over and over and enjoyed them and felt wonderful. Now I spend time examining, looking for what my equipment is NOT doing or how my headphones "sound" and sometimes I feel my presence on Head-Fi enhances or promotes this type of behaviour, or I feel guilty after I complain about a headphone or give raves to it. I feel I have no business interfering with the soul and musical enjoyment of others. I figure I'm contributing to the evil that will prevent others from truly enjoying their music like I did as a kid.

I don't know what great equipment is. I only know what good music and sound are, for my tastes. If the equipment brings that, I guess I'm happy. But the equipment is now constantly interfering with my musical pleasure and enjoyment. I "get" the point of the music when I'm in the car; I often "miss" it when I'm using "great equipment". So this brings me back to the kid with the record player.

I am hopelessly lost. Anybody else?

 

[PC Corp]

I was lost for a while.
I definitely want better sound from my headphones.
Looking at other people's equipments makes me want to upgrade. And I did. I just ordered the SAC/K1000 combo from Jan. Luckily, I somehow remembered who I'm. If I spend everything I have, I maybe able to afford the Stax system. But music is just another hobby, there are many things in life I want to do and they all need $$$. So I think I've made a smart choice. I may upgrade my source, but I'll keep my amp/phones for the next few years and I'll focus on collecting CDs, or I may add a turntable as I still believe LPs are still better than SACDs. Be honest, I really don't 100% understand why people have more than 2 sets of phones. I mean, why don't you sell some of them and get a better pair of phones? Phones are good, but music is better, way better.

 

[huy_ha]

I agree that our priorites sometimes get switched. I do find, however, that knowing what goes into a great meal (methods, ingredients, etc.) often increases my appreciation of the meal.

As for interfering with enjoyment, I think most of us are generally here to 1. Try to enhance our listening experience (not necessarily through buying equipment or spending more money) and 2. To prevent others from going through unsatisfying experiences we've had. I find that the things I don't do or don't buy to be the unacknowledged benefit of this site. But it does add up to a more enjoyable music experience for me, especially since the end point of many of these discussions is: get off my ass and go listen to live music.

 

[Braver]

I feel lost a bit as well.

my HD565s did show me more of what was on the CD. instruments sounded more real, more of a soundstage, more of everything. so when I spin a disc, I listen to how great that guitar player plays his riffs, the guy at the synths adding layers of sound, I can hear reverbs, soundeffects are more convincing. But I don't enjoy the music more than I did when I was $120 richer. sometimes even less, when I realise I didn't get the "meaning" of a song, but have been listening to instruments and vocals instead for half an hour. somehow it's harder to hear the music as a whole with these headphones.

so, the 565 is up for sale (and almost sold), and yet again I'm back to basics (and just ordered three CDs). the cans were just too expensive for the enjoyment they gave me (which wasn't up to par to a simple cheap-ass system). spinning some discs with my cheap equipment and totally loving it, I felt like "what the hell am I dong? getting a better setup to enjoy music as much as I'm doing right now? while I still have less than 50 CDs??"

I'm thinking about getting fullsizers again, but no clue which. all I know is they're not going to be expensive. and I'm buying more CDs. and I feel strangely happy as well.

 

[Xevion]

Because of this forum, I listen to more music. Because of this forum, I have bought several CDs which is about to change to many. Because of this forum, I have discovered many great groups, and been reminded of others.

Because of this forum, I have some Senn HD600s, and they are much more pleasing to me then my HD500s are now, although I liked my 500s before I heard the good sounding 600s. I now know more of what I am hearing, and can hear more suble differences too, so I consider that having learned.

I like to try and learn as many things as possible as I go along, even if it really is pretty useless stuff in life meaning (my audio enthusiasm would be something in that category).

When I hear good music played on crappy speakers, I can put up with the speakers to hear the music. The difference is, on a nice sounding system, I find the music just that much more involving, so I try and make my system sound as good as I can without getting in the way of my other hobbies too much.

It is a somewhat significant cash investment, but definantly worth it to me.

 

[jude]

This forum is as much about the social contact to me as it is the headphone-related discussions. Of course the thing that ties it all together is headphones and hi-fi. I mean, I can walk up and down a mile-long street and I'd be surprised if I found a single person who gave a hoot about headphone hi-fi.

So, to me, a big part of what this forum is about is that I can say, "Hey, I just bought Etymotic ER-4S's and they sound great with my rig!" and actually have some people around (if only through my computer and these forums) who fully understand why there'd be an exclamation point at the end of that statement.

Regarding Beagle's question about being lost: I guess I don't really feel that nowadays. I listen happily to music through my rig for several hours every day.

Of course, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy tweaking.

 

[M Rael]

You really laid a lot of things out there Beagle; I liked reading your post very much. The issues you brought up are connected to each other nicely and it all makes perfect sense. I'm sure lots of guys can easily relate to them. With that said:

the structure of your post makes a lot of assumptions (innocent assumptions) that might distort whats going on here. In paragraph 1 you assume people dont want to know about headphones in themselves. You make an analogy with eating food; but no analogy 'is the thing' and no analogy is needed. In fact I would guess that some people ARE interested in headphones in themselves, and like reading whats happening in the world of headphones. The decision to play music and listen to music is personal, and just because a person likes hardware doesnt mean he has no musical soul (!)

In paragraph 2 you assume that if people were really into the music on a soul level that they might disappear for weeks from the board. Again, thats just an assumption about 'getting lost in the music', and I have a suspicion you are trying to bring music to the level of extasy and bliss, but in a way that fits in to daily life. I just dont see that happening pal, and I'm as sorry about it as you. There are feeling behind music that is bliss, just like there are behind sex, but the reality of the experience changes a lot over the course of our lives. Personally, I'd rather bliss out on sex than music, but the fact of the matter is that some things only exist as ideals for us. They cant ALWAYS be expressed. On some level music is divine, but so what??? I have to be somewhere at 5pm! See? We do what we can do..

Paragraph 3 is interesting for the kid analogy. Ah yes, the joys of scratchy 45s. But again, we did a LOT of things as kids and we believed a lot of ******** about the world. You cant just pick out the part about scratchy 45s! We also ate candy up the ass and didnt clean our rooms. We didnt have responsibilities to speak of, and a zillion other contrasts to adult life. But hey, I sympathise with you. With all of us! We keep what we can alive of those experiences and memories.

Well buddy, I'm not here to disagree with you. I totally understand where your post came from. Do what you need to do, thats my advice.

And note: you brought this up on the board, and you got replies. And from me you will also get a congratulation!

And you didnt even need to buy new cans.

 

[chadbang]

Early in my audiophile days in college I was telling an older friend in his late thirties about what a great system I had at the time. He replied with something that has stuck with me for two decades, he said: "Well, yes, that's nice to have a system like that, but there have been times when I've had profound musical experiences listening to a symphony on an AM radio". I was speechless for a moment as he was absolutely right. As you said, Beagle, you were moved listening to old 45s from your childhood on a cheap player. In high school I had a Sears red, white and blue American flag painted turntable/stereo that must have been god-awful sonically, but it gave thousands of hours of joy. That's the power of music at work, whether that power is the pleasurable wash of nostalgia at hearing an old song, the rush that a driving beat and a stir of adrenaline brings, or the exhilaration of an emotional peak that comes from riding the ebb and flow of a symphony. And that kind of musically induced euphoria is not dependent on the music's source or the expense of the components, and I'm sure no one will deny that. But I think that our obsession with the quality of our equipment (and there is an touch of obsession/possessiveness behind our pursuits; I think if we're honest, we should admit that to ourselves) is also justifiable as an aid to appreciating music. I learn from new equipment. I'm listen. Even if I am just noting the sound of a bass guitar, even though it is only a small part of a composition, that kind of intensive listening is making me aware of a new facet of that performance. I think that's grown-up listening, sophisticated listening. It's may not embody the same pure emotion as getting teary to a love song, it's not a head-thrashing rush and it may not be losing oneself for the forty minutes in the throes of symphony, but it's a form of inspection and appreciation. Even while completely enjoying a fine dinner for its own sake, a food connoisseur can still focus on its subtle shades of flavor to expand his knowledge of cuisine. To say that an audiophile's style of listening robs him or her of enjoying the music is like saying the connoisseur cannot enjoy his meal while also appreciating it's texture. How many times have we all said something to the effect, actually exclaimed is the right word: "I heard an (organ/drum/guitar part) I'd never noticed before!" In that way a familiar song became a revelation again - and what's wrong with that? If I can buy a headphone, change a cord or power up a new amp and have something as profound and joyful as a revelation, I'll keep doing it again and again until the end.

 

[redshifter]

on another site i was accused of not being a TRUE movie lover because i had bought a high-end sony flat screen tv and dvd player, and expressed my preference for watching movies with a good transfer. this guy's argument was i should be able to enjoy a poor copy of "2001" on vhs tape in pan & scan, or i wasn't a true movie lover. "bollocks", i said to him, i think it is a disservice to the director and cinematogrpaher to watch a movie in a less then ideal transfer. in fact, i waited until i got a good home theater until i bought the dvd of "2001", and in fact waited for the good tranfer to come out. i think this shows my love of movies, that i would spend the money and time to do it right.

i feel the same way about music. i don't listen to my headphones, i listen to the music (unless i'm reviewing or modifying my headphones). i know all of beethoven's symphonies and a good number of his smaller works by heart (as in i could hum them for you). the best equipment brings you closer to the music, and my reference has always been live shows, which i go to as many as i can. i also know where to draw the line (for myself) in buying equipment, as in i don't spend $20,000 on interconnects. i'd rather be happy with what equipment i have and spend the money on cds and concert tickets instead.

 

[KR...]

I should write a nice long response like everyone else, but there's not much to say about this subject.

I had a hell a lot more fun discussing music here than headphones, amps, cables, and sources put together!

The only reason I have all this audiophile equipment is so that I can listen to the music that I love in the best way possible that I have room for and can afford. It's as simple as that.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

i think it is a disservice to the director and cinematogrpaher to watch a movie in a less then ideal transfer

Then I guess it is also a disservice to the compression-happy producer/engineer if you listen to a modern rock recording on an expensive high resolution stereo instead of a boom box.

 

[Kubernetes]

I was worried about that for a while, especially when I started thinking about buying Grado RS-1s and an Earmax Pro. I was thinking, "Am I going about this all wrong? Would the money just be better spent on more CDs?"

But all in all, I think it was a wonderful investment. I don't stare at my equipment and think about how great it looks or how much money I spent. I actually enjoy music a lot more now. Every time I put on headphones it is a thrilling experience. Whereas years before I would always have music on just as background, I now get genuinely excited just thinking about listening to a particular album--music is important again!

And I don't think I'm alone in saying that I'm not looking for some electromechanical holy grail that is good because of technological perfection--I'm searching for an aesthetic purity that comes from the music itself. That's why I love my Grados. Are they colored? Sure. What about the Earmax Pro, is it tubey and colored? Sure. But do I really enjoy listening to music through these two devices? Hell yes. The two have encouraged me to go through every cd I own again, even ones I bought years before and wrote off. And you know what? There are some real gems there that I dismissed because they didn't appeal to my musical tastes way back when. Was it worth spending over $1200 for this experience? Of course. And I don't care if my equipment is not "neutral" or "accurate." What does that mean anyhow? Why do guitarists and other musicians prefer "inaccurate" tube amps? It's euphonics, baby!

Oh, and on a side note, why does the best equipment always need some strange, exotic materials like kevlar or rare wood? For once why can't the best-sounding material for audiophile headphones be cheap-ass plastic and cast-iron?

 

[pigmode]

I'm not worried or confused, because I know what my sonic goals are vis a vis my financial commitment to this hobby. Since I bought my HD580/JMT I've neglected my equipment and instead have spent ungodly amounts on music. I was happy. Now it's time to focus on equipment again, but once I settle upon a new amp and perhaps do the 580>600 upgrade, I'll be set. I love my toys if they do exactly what I want them to do. It can be a framing hammer or a 19', 21.5lb vacuum-bagged epoxy ocean kayak, their value lies in what they allow you to accomplish with them. It's the experience that counts.

The music alway comes first, but I see no contradiction whatsoever if I work hard at striving for the highest sound quality within my reach. Sorry, but there's no way I can have any kind of "experience" with anything coming out of a radio. Those days of, ahem, using special enhancements are long over.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Then I guess it is also a disservice to the compression-happy producer/engineer if you listen to a modern rock recording on an expensive high resolution stereo instead of a boom box.

heh. that would be funnier if it wasn't true. i've been bitching about the compression of new cds for a while now. it's even more of a shame & a crime when it is done to remastered classics.

here's to the mediocritization of our music:

i wonder if there is a way to "decode" the dynamics of a recording that has been overcompressed?

 

[neil]

I think that this headphone hi-fi discussion has made me listen to music more (in terms of time) and more music (in terms of expanding my horizons and variety). Another interesting thing is that this headphone hi-fi stuff has me popping in old music that I really didn't listen to much anymore, having me interested if I can hear stuff I didn't hear before.

I'm not a gotta have the latest and greatest type of person, and in fact, for well over a year, my Grado SR-80s and small portable amp were more than enough. I tried this new equipment (Ety 4S's) out of necessity -- keep out background noise so I can listen to my music, work, and not be distracted by other things going on.

I'd have to say that one of my most favorite things about the headphone hi-fi thing (which is actually quite new to me -- only since this forum opened), is the community. It is neat to hear what people have to say about equipment, music, and the general discussion.

In no way do I ever think I'm hindering the listening experience by getting more involved in headphone hi-fi. I find it facinating that we're willing to discuss and get together all in the quest to get closer to the music, and that we want to do it by sharing our explorations with other interested people.