[barleyguy]

Quote:

Cables are a matter of faith, or they are treated that way by "believers." If you want to know, just try it for yourself since someone's else personal, subjective experience is just that and won't necessarily determine your experience
 
This thread has already been discussed a thousand plus times, and since it's not in sound science we cannot even go into the evidence. So it's really a waste of space here...

Not believing in cables is an act of faith as well.  It takes great faith to believe that we can measure everything audible and that there is proof that people who claim to hear a difference do not.
 
I'm not really arguing one direction or the other, just pointing out that a strong belief one direction or the other is equally an act of faith.
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Not believing in cables is an act of faith as well.  It takes great faith to believe that we can measure everything audible and that there is proof that people who claim to hear a difference do not.
 
I'm not really arguing one direction or the other, just pointing out that a strong belief one direction or the other is equally an act of faith.

It would be an act of faith if there were no evidence to suggest that there are no differences. But there is evidence to suggest that. If strong evidence suggested that differences are audible, I would believe it. It's not faith in a belief so much as it is trust of facts and evidence.

 

[SHURE530]

Quote:

This topic was already very well worn out on "HD650, the veil is gone!" Lets not let it blow up like that one did. Plus, shouldn't this be in Sound Science? And why are all cable aficionados so reluctant to post any scientific measurements or results of ABX testing? To me, all this points to one conclusion...

this is not in Sound Science as:
1. you can't change cold hard scientific facts/results, all the results are already there, link them if you need to.
2. i don't see how having background scientific knowledge should determine how something should sound better than something else.

 

[SHURE530]

Quote:

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
 
I thought maybe it could have used a little more salt though.

 
se
 
 
 

 
nah, i think it was good too much salt and you'll get hypertension.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Not believing in cables is an act of faith as well.  It takes great faith to believe that we can measure everything audible and that there is proof that people who claim to hear a difference do not.
 
I'm not really arguing one direction or the other, just pointing out that a strong belief one direction or the other is equally an act of faith.
 

Well I went from being convinced of the reasons as to why cables sound different as put forward by cable companies and many audiophiles to not believing them. It was nothing to do with faith and all to do with evidence as presented by science. If science produces evidence that a silver cable does enhance treble and make such a cable sound brighter, I will go with that. Again, nothing to do with faith.
 

 

[Willakan]

@Currawong:
 
I was speaking of the majority of audiophile cables, which behave the same as far as audio reproduction is concerned. There are of course cables that audibly change the sound, but I would be inclined to describe them as broken.
 
@Barleyguy:
 
The "science is faith" argument is given as a classic example of a logical fallacy on the Wikipedia page for fallacies.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

     Quote:
Can you link to a good example of where an ABX study failed, where the difference should be audible?
 

The one I remember most is the ABX study done with a $220 Pioneer receiver, and a $12,000 tube amp. The test subjects failed to report any difference between the two. I have also not seen any ABX study done able to show any difference between 16/44 and 24/96.
 
http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/487awsi/index.html

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

It would be an act of faith if there were no evidence to suggest that there are no differences. But there is evidence to suggest that. If strong evidence suggested that differences are audible, I would believe it. It's not faith in a belief so much as it is trust of facts and evidence.

 


Quote:

@Currawong:
 
I was speaking of the majority of audiophile cables, which behave the same as far as audio reproduction is concerned. There are of course cables that audibly change the sound, but I would be inclined to describe them as broken.
 
@Barleyguy:
 
The "science is faith" argument is given as a classic example of a logical fallacy on the Wikipedia page for fallacies.

I'm not saying science is faith.  The faith is in the belief that you are actually measuring the correct thing.
 
1. People hear a difference
2. There must be something measurable that causes that difference (whether it's in the cable or in a brain EKG)
3. Therefore, the goal should be to find what measurement correlates with hearing a difference.
 
Another thing that needs a proper study is whether blind/double blind/ABX testing is actually statistically neutral all the way to zero difference, or whether it trends towards null at a certain level of difference.
 
(This thread needs to be moved to sound science instead of clogging up the cables forum.  This type of thread is the reason that sub-forum was created in the first place.)
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Measuring the brain's response during sighted, comparison and ABX testing would be my next test, but sadly not one I could do or am I aware of one being done.
 
Bear in mind that the results of ABX tests of cables where no difference is discernable is further corroborated by null and frequency tests of cables. So three different ways of measuring a cable and still many are not happy with the science and are closed minded to looking elsewhere for the reasons people hear differences. Wierd.

 

[tnmike1]

Only cabling I'm using is a $65 Whiplash and a $195 ALO cable as the interconnect with iPod and amp.  I "think" I can hear a sligiht difference between them--a little more detail, more openness, etc--but doubt highly if it's worth the additional $130 or so between the two.  Actually I'm quite happy with either one.
 
 

 

[Rebel975]

The question I have is what's the difference between actually having high-end cables matter and thinking that high-end cables matter? Other than hundreds-thousands of dollars, of course.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

The question I have is what's the difference between actually having high-end cables matter and thinking that high-end cables matter? Other than hundreds-thousands of dollars, of course.

If it's all placebo, absolutely nothing. You could take some Monoprice cables, dress them up in a spiffy new tube with new connectors, slap an audiophile brand name on them, and sell them for a grand. No one would know the difference.

 

[Rebel975]

Let me rephrase: What's the difference between actually hearing a difference and thinking you hear a difference? As far as the person is concerned there is a difference either way.
 
In a strange way it reminds me of some form of OCD. Ever go into a bathroom and see that the toilet paper has been put onto the wheel the wrong way? Ever triple checked the door to make sure it's locked? Ever see someone with a multi thousand dollar audio setup with $2 RCA cables from Wal Mart? They're doing it wrong, right? The interconnects must match the system! ...Or something like that.
 
Thank God I'm content with Monoprice cables. Although to be fair I've never heard an expensive cable. I wouldn't be against giving one a try- I just can't justify buying one.

 

[Marburger]

it is very hard to judge about the cable sound. Both sides have their own arguments, one is for sure that good cable is good isolated and you can be sure about your audio chain.
But otherwise, manufacturers of course, making money producing super-pupper cables. scientifically trying to prove us. But i think in some stage price (maybe till100$ ) the quality of the cables do not any significant  role.
for example, i have recabled my hd580 with cryoed copper wire and did not hear any change. maybe i have not enough experience or golden ears. i think,  junior head fiers should not bother themselves with high end cable, as other already said, cables are last  little flavor in an expensive audio rig.    

 

[Pudu]

Keep in mind, there are many great reasons to invest in a good quality after market cable.


But when someone asks whether they make a difference to the sound, an emphatic, unqualified yes is not the best answer.