[johnanderson]

I've only recently noticed this but it seems that forum members on this site tend to post reviews of headphones, which depending on if they're favorable or not, cause the demand of that headphone to go up. Probably the easiest examples I can think of currently are the D2000/D5000 and the AKG K240 Sextetts. It seemed like only after markl posted his thread favoring the D5000 to his R10 did demand of the Denons shoot up and it was hard to find them instock. As for the K240 Sextetts, most people know that not so long ago you could have easily gotten them for less than $100, but after a couple of reviews raving about their sound it seems hard to find a pair not in the $100-200 price range. Now I'm not saying that these headphones are not worth it, especially since sound is so subjective and its not my money to spend, but whats to keep someone new to the site from getting the wrong impressions about the headphones and spending a ton of money purchasing something that might not even be what they wanted in the first place? It just seems to me that the enthusiasm, albeit good for us enthusiasts, seems to have gotten a little out of hand and can become somewhat misleading to new members.

 

[Wmcmanus]

I suppose the reviews by fellow Head-Fi'ers can (and probably do) have an effect (good or bad) on the prices that various headphones will fetch in the used market here at Head-Fi.

But, and this is a big but, even though Head-Fi is the largest audio website in existence, we're still just a tiny drop in the bucket as far as headphone manufacturers are concerned. I doubt that Head-Fi accounts far anywhere near to 1% of the sales made by Grado or Audio Technica or AKG.

If we had an influence at all, then it would most likely be for the more high end headphones. In fact, there is at least some evidence of this in the sense that Sennheiser made another batch of HE90's a couple of years ago based on an agreement with Jan Meier (most of which were then sold to Head-Fi members).

Not to downplay such an event, but even in the case of the HE90 batch that were basically made to fulfill a demand from Head-Fi members, that still didn't impact the price that Sennheiser was going to charge for them. In that case, they basically said, "This is the price. Take it or leave it."

For the rest of Sennheiser's product line, as is the case for all of the other headphone manufacturers, it's pretty much business as usual and they will charge whatever they think the market will pay for each and every product in their product lines.

This is not to say that they don't know that we exist. In fact, they're all well aware of Head-Fi. It's just that they realize that we're a fringe group of headphone enthusiasts, and the vast majority of their customers buy one pair of headphones and are then done with it. No more debating, no more listening tests, no discussions with other people to determine whether they made the right decision.

So if you were to look carefully at the product positioning strategies of the various headphone manufacturers you'll quickly see that most of their focus is on the $100 (or less) market where the greatest number of customers can be found. There isn't nearly as much incentive for them to be focused on the high end, unfortunately, because there just aren't that many customers to be found in the $1,000 (or more) market.

Sadly, this reality has dumb the growth and development on an industry wide basis and it's quite rare to see something that looks 'new' these days, at least design-wise and technology-wise.

 

[ken36]

Biggest effect is a feast of famine. Everybody sells at once. Nobody is selling. Supply and demand. Simple.

 

[Duggeh]

There is always going to be a new FOTM coming up. And it has to come from somewhere. Noone tells readers of their reviews that they should/must buy the item in question. People read, decide for themselves that they want something and then go after it.

If more people want something because of this, and there is a limited availability, then prices will rise. After the FOTM peaks and ends. Prices may or may not drop again. K1000 prices have pretty much held stead since their jump over the $1000 mark after they were suddenly, popularly the best thign since sliced reel to reel. They may even drop in price again. Unlike the R10 or HE90, theres an awful lot more of them about. More than 10,000.

But i dont think that FOTM results from one head-fiers opinions. The D5000 was selling pretty well prior to Markls comments and mods, although the used market for them may be a little tighter now. The K240 was an unknown until Fitz praised it and word then got around. Vintage Stax prices have been on the up and up for 2 years since the consolidation of information on them in the two stax threads here, so it seems anyway. There are many other factors which play in that particular case. Ortho prices have also risen as more head-fiers have learned of their existence.

Theres not been a big enthusiastic FOTM for the Ergo AMT, Jecklin Electrostatic or TakeT H2 (beyond the group buy offer) though. And I've reviewed all three of those, generally positively.

 

[johnanderson]

I agree with the supply and demand standpoint but sometimes it just seems that some headphones get emphasized unfairly over others simply because of the users listening preferences. And this goes on to contribute to the many "which are the best headphones available?" threads out there where posters simply state their preferences in response to the question. It also seems that it is fairly easy to resurrect a previous FOTM headphone simply if a user gets his/her hands on one and posts favorable reviews. I certainly understand that if a headphone is rare then there is more demand for it, but what I am wary of is the risk that someone could post a favorable review of a can whose impressions can be completely different to another user. I don't want to say anything bad about head-fi as this is a great community, but it just seems to be that the majority of people here are easily influenced by the opinion threads posted here and thus could easily cause the demand/price of a headphone to change.

 

[ast]

The influence is definitely there and I have/had first hand experience of it.

In general, it is almost impossible for most of people to audition some of the higher end headphones, not mention those discontinued. So when I was looking for such headphones, I could only reference the review section here on Head-fi. I believe many others have similar experience. The used market will be affected for sure given relatively small market with hi-end headphones.

This is expected behavior and this is exactly why all the Audio magazines exist.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnanderson /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with the supply and demand standpoint but sometimes it just seems that some headphones get emphasized unfairly over others simply because of the users listening preferences..

Unfairly? What is unfair about praising the phones we like and not praising the ones we don't like as much? There are positive reviews for nearly every phone out there, so I hardly think that it makes any sense to withhold our opinions just in case someone might buy one and not like it.

 

[bizkid]

Yes they do, but those prices mostly stay on the head-fi sale forum or other online places. Places that most headfiers can't reach easily have completely normal prices, for example out of production ATs; The old woodies and the L3000, both can be bought for almost half of the head-fi going rate with "offline" 2nd hand dealers in japan, as long they have one for offer ofcourse. Using todays yen exchange rate i paid exactly half of the usual head-fi price for my L3000 1 year ago in Japan.
I also saw similary priced W11JPNs, W10VTGs (which MSRP was only little more than the A900 btw). These are clearly overpriced and overrated here. I see how a serious collector would pay $$$ for such a headphone to complete his collection but come on, who here is truely a collector? Thats very very very few.

 

[facelvega]

By far the most notable influence of head-fi is on rare vintage headphones, the kind of which only a few will show up for sale in a given month or even year on the various online sales venues. When they are unknown on head-fi, these headphones often sell for virtually nothing-- nobody looking for them and even an intrigued browser disappointed in the hopes of googling up a good review. Later, once we've identified and tested them, the prices skyrocket, as they have with the Sextett, K340, various Floats, vintage Stax, nearly any orthodynamic, and certain Beyer models like the DT531.

Generally there is a limit to this inflation, though, in that most vintage buyers will simply look elsewhere once the price gets up too high.

 

[johnanderson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfairly? What is unfair about praising the phones we like and not praising the ones we don't like as much? There are positive reviews for nearly every phone out there, so I hardly think that it makes any sense to withhold our opinions just in case someone might buy one and not like it.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that sometimes it seems that certain reviewers are more enthusiastic about a certain headphone and will push that headphone no matter what everyone else says. Theres nothing wrong with that but I just wanted to point out that there are more easily influenced people out there and that it might not be fair towards those people to just have one over-voiced opinion drown out all the others.

In terms of rarity of headphones, yes there might be justification in that their prices are fair, but I'm more concerned with headphones that are still in production and currently FOTM. Lets take for example the Denon D2000. I'm sure Denon is making a profit on this headphone at its current price, and I'm sure it will still continue to make a profit even if the headphone is priced lower. The thing is that current demand is justification enough to keep the price at where it is and that might be because some of the reviews here have pointed users toward this headphone. I don't know how much head-fi is responsible for the sales of Denon cans but certainly head-fi does have some sort of influence(possibly minute) in how Denon prices their headphones. Of course the same could be said of other manufacturers like Ultrasone, Sennheiser, Grado, Ect.

Apologies if I'm sounding derisive. I don't mean to be but I'm just pointing something out that I think is important.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnanderson /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that sometimes it seems that certain reviewers are more enthusiastic about a certain headphone and will push that headphone no matter what everyone else says. Theres nothing wrong with that but I just wanted to point out that there are more easily influenced people out there and that it might not be fair towards those people to just have one over-voiced opinion drown out all the others.

No apologies needed, I clearly misunderstood what you meant.

I have an issue myself with the people who go through recommendation threads only pushing their favourite headphone (and often their first real one), even when it completely doesn't fit the person's requirements or tastes. But I doubt Head-Fi in general has any significant influence over the pricing or availability, except for rare / discontinued headphones or ultra high-end stuff, which are both niche markets.

 

[osu1277]

my god people! hes right!

ladies and gentlemen of the forum: we must use this to our advantage!!!

I hereby decree, from this day of our lord the 6th of january two-thousand and eight, all headphones produced henceforth are rubbish! And so shall be declared so on all subsequent reviews!

long live the people, LONG LIVE THE DEMOCRACY!

 

[Duggeh]

¬ _¬

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif ¬ _¬

What you lookin' at?

 

[Duggeh]

Sorry Gary.