[bigshot]

My Mac Mini is audibly transparent... Flat response, no audible distortion, noise floor down below the ability to hear, 1:1 dynamics, optical and HDMI outs... Unless someone wants some sort of colored sound, you can't do better than that. There must be unique features that justify the price on these.

 

[linglingjr]

   
I know people who own (or have at least heard) the dCS Vivaldi and said it's the best-sounding source they ever heard. The only reason would be sound quality, and if you are going to call these people deluded, you might want to back it up with evidence that a laptop computer sounds the same as a six-figure audio system.
 
As for dedicated music servers, you could check out reviews to see what they offer.

Only reason would be sound quality?  You honestly don't think that placebo had anything to do with them knowing they were listening to something costing six figures? Arguing about all this is pointless until everyone gets together and does blind testing...  
 
I really want an ultra high speed dac, my current one takes way too long to get everything into analog, it really takes away from the experience.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  My Mac Mini is audibly transparent... Flat response, no audible distortion, noise floor down below the ability to hear, 1:1 dynamics. Unless someone wants some sort of colored sound, you can't do better than that. There must be unique features that justify the price on these.

 
My laptop is "audibly transparent" and sounds incredibly boring directly from the headphone jack.

 
But yes, they all seem to have unique features as well.
 

  Only reason would be sound quality?  You honestly don't think that placebo had anything to do with them knowing they were listening to something costing six figures? Arguing about all this is pointless until everyone gets together and does blind testing...  
 
I really want an ultra high speed dac, my current one takes way too long to get everything into analog, it really takes away from the experience.

 
I meant the only reason someone would want to buy an audio component so expensive would be for sound quality. Whether it actually delivers superior sound quality is another story.
 
As for DAC speed, calculations in the time domain allegedly affect the sound.
 
I am just as (or even more) interested in conducting tests on this equipment as many people here are -- not just blind testing, but actual sound wave measurements and so on.

 

[bigshot]

  My laptop is "audibly transparent" and sounds incredibly boring directly from the headphone jack.

 
Perhaps you have an impedance problem there. Mac's headphone out is almost as good as the line out, but still below the threshold of sounding flat and clean to human ears. But I'm sure it wouldn't sound like that with hard to drive cans. You'd need an amp for that.
 
I'm guessing these are "all in one" units with power amps and DAC built in. I have my mini connected to my AV receiver using HDMI. That carries everything across to the amp, both sound and video, bit perfect. The DAC is in the AV receiver and the specs on that are well below the threshold of audibility too. The specs I've seen on the Mini and my receiver are all in the same ballpark as Redbook. That is audibly transparent.
 
So I guess my estimate of Mini and Airport system for the house at under $1000 is a little too conservative. If we count the amp too, my system ran around $1400. Sure, you can have better specs. And maybe these do have better specs. But you'll never hear a difference with human ears. Audibly transparent is audibly transparent. Once you achieve that, the problem is in the transducers and how they perform, not the electronics.

 

[cjl]

   
My laptop is "audibly transparent" and sounds incredibly boring directly from the headphone jack.

By the definition of audible transparency, if you can tell it from any other audibly transparent source by sound alone (yes, this means a double blinded, level-matched comparison), it isn't audibly transparent. As for why people write glowing accounts of a 6 figure system? Do you really think the knowledge that they had spent 6 figures didn't affect their evaluation at all?
 
(Hell, if you want to spend 6 figures+ on audio, don't buy a 6 figure DAC. Build yourself a listening room designed from the ground up for ideal acoustics, and then add some nice speakers. Make sure everything is carefully calibrated, get some good digital bass management, etc. Drive it all off your iPod if you want and it'll still sound a million times better than a 6 figure DAC driving a system in a normal room)

 

[bigshot]

It might be audibly transparent with the correct impedance load.
 
Ha! cjl just described my system!

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Perhaps you have an impedance problem there. Mac's headphone out is almost as good as the line out, but still below the threshold of sounding flat and clean to human ears. But I'm sure it wouldn't sound like that with hard to drive cans. You'd need an amp for that.
 
I'm guessing these are "all in one" units with power amps and DAC built in. I have my mini connected to my AV receiver using HDMI. That carries everything across to the amp, both sound and video, bit perfect. The DAC is in the AV receiver and the specs on that are well below the threshold of audibility too. The specs I've seen on the Mini and my receiver are all in the same ballpark as Redbook. That is audibly transparent.
 
So I guess my estimate of Mini and Airport system for the house at under $1000 is a little too conservative. If we count the amp too, my system ran around $1400. Sure, you can have better specs. And maybe these do have better specs. But you'll never hear a difference with human ears. Audibly transparent is audibly transparent. Once you achieve that, the problem is in the transducers and how they perform, not the electronics.

 
Perhaps some music servers are integrated units, but the ones I've read about the most involve adding an external DAC and amp. Some have external power supplies as well.
 
For how satisfied you are with your system, that's very affordable! Unfortunately, I can't recall (if you told me before) what headphones/speakers you use with it.
 

  By the definition of audible transparency, if you can tell it from any other audibly transparent source by sound alone (yes, this means a double blinded, level-matched comparison), it isn't audibly transparent. As for why people write glowing accounts of a 6 figure system? Do you really think the knowledge that they had spent 6 figures didn't affect their evaluation at all?
 
(Hell, if you want to spend 6 figures+ on audio, don't buy a 6 figure DAC. Build yourself a listening room designed from the ground up for ideal acoustics, and then add some nice speakers. Make sure everything is carefully calibrated, get some good digital bass management, etc. Drive it all off your iPod if you want and it'll still sound a million times better than a 6 figure DAC driving a system in a normal room)

 
Hm...I wonder which portable DAPs are audibly transparent. The two I have sound very different, and they still have quite a way to go in terms of an ideal sound. Plus, many people prefer a colored sound over a neutral one, so I wouldn't even know how to determine what is audibly transparent or not when comparing things like this.
 
Good advice. Once I do advance to speaker systems, it will get quite tricky indeed.

 

[SilverEars]

  Only reason would be sound quality?  You honestly don't think that placebo had anything to do with them knowing they were listening to something costing six figures? Arguing about all this is pointless until everyone gets together and does blind testing...  
 
I really want an ultra high speed dac, my current one takes way too long to get everything into analog, it really takes away from the experience.

Sounds like jitter.  Look into DACs with dual femto clocks.  

  On a related note, when I played a song my ears were familar with, it sounded slow.  Not sure if this is what is meant by fast.  

  I needed a speed option for that moment of my hearing condition.  May need SSDs for speed.

 

[castleofargh]

  Hm...I wonder which portable DAPs are audibly transparent. The two I have sound very different, and they still have quite a way to go in terms of an ideal sound. Plus, many people prefer a colored sound over a neutral one, so I wouldn't even know how to determine what is audibly transparent or not when comparing things like this.
 

I almost bought a benchmark DAC1 only to be done with the concept of transparency once and for all, and be able to see if my odac/o2 or leckerton portable dac/amp do really sound the same AKA transparent. I got turned down by the lack of a power off button and fear of custom fees. that's just how weak I am ^_^.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  Only reason would be sound quality?  You honestly don't think that placebo had anything to do with them knowing they were listening to something costing six figures? Arguing about all this is pointless until everyone gets together and does blind testing...  
 
I really want an ultra high speed dac, my current one takes way too long to get everything into analog, it really takes away from the experience.

Sounds like jitter.  Look into DACs with dual femto clocks.  

  On a related note, when I played a song my ears were familar with, it sounded slow.  Not sure if this is what is meant by fast.  

  I needed a speed option for that moment of my hearing condition.  May need SSDs for speed.

you know that only an atomic clock can do for music to sound live. but the real trick for faster dac is to live at high altitude to benefit from time flowing faster, as any real audiophile knows.

 

[bigshot]

  For how satisfied you are with your system, that's very affordable! Unfortunately, I can't recall (if you told me before) what headphones/speakers you use with it.

 
Headphones: Oppo PM-1 (HA-1 too but I don't use it in my theater)
Speakers: Mains: Custom made 12 inch six way studio monitors from the 70s / JBL Towers, Center: Klipsch: RC-62 Sub: Top of the line Sunfire 12 inch, Rears: Klipsch bookshelf speakers
 
this part of my system wasn't inexpensive

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Headphones: Oppo PM-1 (HA-1 too but I don't use it in my theater)
Speakers: Mains: Custom made 12 inch six way studio monitors from the 70s / JBL Towers, Center: Klipsch: RC-62 Sub: Top of the line Sunfire 12 inch, Rears: Klipsch bookshelf speakers
 
this part of my system wasn't inexpensive

 
Sweet. I want the PM-1s, but want the Abyss more.

 

[bigshot]

Headphones can only be so good. Speakers can kick ass.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Headphones can only be so good. Speakers can kick ass.

 
They both bring unique things to the table. I probably won't even begin getting into speakers until years from now.
 
At any rate, hearing things like this is reassuring:
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Except the sound, these sound better than speakers. I was telling Veni how downright impressed I was and he argued that for the price you could get a great speaker set up. And he is right, but… These have the sub bass that headphones just can’t accurately reproduce, they are forgiving , musical and somehow still perfectly accurate. They are not by anyways neutral but are without a doubt the best thing I have ever heard. I have heard 500k speaker sets ups in Japan, friends who have great gear and I can appreciate good quality speakers but they lack intimacy and the subtle details we hear on headphones. The Abyss lets you hear all these tiny details but at the same time delivers an impossibly wide sound stage for headphones whilst still sounding musical.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Why would anyone spend that much on a black box when a Mac Mini and airport network is audibly transparent and costs under $1000? Is the user interface on these better? Do they offer features that media server PCs lack? Do they do video too?

 
Heck even smartphones are decent 16/44.1 music servers nowadays. I used to put it on Airplane Mode thinking less interference, but after extensive testing, there wasn't any difference anyway save for battery life.