[ScubaSteve87]

yeah I think these are rough low estaimates at best. It may say 70 for a millet, but I know I spend at least 200 on mine. It just adds up so fast

 

[robzy]

Dynalo for $70? HA! I wish.

Rob.

 

[ericj]

If you want to use boutique parts, the cost can multiply very quickly, for just about any amp.

going nuts like that is pretty unnecessary. You could easily spend $100 or more on a cmoy if you insisted on blackgates, teflon input caps, exotic resistors, etc. And paid prime retail for everything.

With the tube amps, you can end up spending a lot on a tube to know you've got a good one. The only way to avoid it is to spend a little (each) on a lot of tubes and figure out which ones work best. That sort of cost is, to some extent, unavoidable.

But it doesn't have to break the bank. You don't need it w/ gold pins, black plate, and pinched glass and a pedigree, and some mints and a free pen thrown in the box with it.

Even with the M3, on which the cost does indeed add up pretty fast, you don't need the opa637/627 combo or even the standard ad8610s, you really can stick three opa604 in there with really decent results, and you've just knocked $20 off the cost, at least.

A lot of DIYers seem to wholeheartedly believe that they really need the components that cost Just A Couple Bucks More, and that seems to be where a lot of the money goes.

I don't want this to turn into a flamewar about boutique parts, so I'll leave it at that.

I think the standard BOM for any of these isn't even a conservative estimate - foregoing the cost of enclosure and power supply, which is fair - the standard BOM is pretty middlin, because you don't always have to pay digikey or mouser prices. And you don't always need expressly the capacitor they recommended, etc.

Some will say they can hear that last 1% that accounts for 50% of the cost, and, hey, it's your money.

I'm sortof halfheartedly collecting parts for a millet. I decided to build one and i bought the board but it's not first in line, or even second. It's off on a back burner alongside stuff like a Schultz tube theremin. I will finish / rebuild my 6bq7a MHHA variant and probably build a SOHA and maybe a BCJ as well before i get around to it - and I'm sure a half a dozen or so pocket size amps will butt in line too. I keep meaning to build a Kumisa III and i have most of the parts collected.

I just don't get as excited about filling a board as i do about more hands-on, adaptive projects. I may not even complete it this year, but maybe i should document how much it ends up costing.

 

[blip]

If we wanted to we could provide a link to a BOM for each of these amps... That way it would be clear how exactly we arrived at each number... Add in a construction link and we would finally have a 1-stop portal for common DIY designs.

Anyway, if people are interested in doing this, I wouldn't mind drawing up a BOM or two (for designs that there isn't a commonly accepted BOM for) if someone else could host them?

 

[amb]

In the case of the dynahi, the heatsinks for the two amp channels plus the PSU, and their bracketry are a significant portion of the cost (and labor). Without factoring those in, it is not valid to compare against other amps. Also, neither the dynahi nor the dynalo have provisions for mounting a volume control pot on the pcb, so it is not included in the BOM but they are nevertheless an important part of the cost.

I finally got all the heatsinks for my dynahi build and I now have all the parts except for some stuff for a custom case, and I am already well into the $600 range. And this is not with anything particularly boutiquey... just good quality but "standard issue" parts. All the little things do add up fast.

 

[Kenny12]

yes it can all add up very fast depending on what you use, u also have to factor in the casing, transformer, chassis items etc.

 

[Voodoochile]

This is my interpretation of a $2 Millett enclosure:

Actually, I guess it's more of a 'chassis', since it does not 'enclose' anything.

 

[Kenny12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoochile This is my interpretation of a $2 Millett enclosure: snip Actually, I guess it's more of a 'chassis', since it does not 'enclose' anything.

I love it

not safe for the kitty though

 

[FritzS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_M AMPS CMOY ............... $25 MINT ................ $ PIMETA ............. $70? PPAv2 ............... $130 Dynalo .............. $70 Dynahi .............. $ M3 ................... $170 Milet Hybrid ....... $80 POWER SUPPLIES TREAD .............. $17 ($10+ for transformer) STEPS .............. $50 Dynahi PS ......... $140

I miss here:
WNA MK I
WNA MK II

I build a WNA MK II with special parts an the total cost is about ~ € 320 (~ $ 350)

 

[Dave_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robzy Dynalo for $70? HA! I wish.

If you look at this pdf you will find a list of all the parts and their cost needed to build the amp. The total comes to $69.12, i dont see what the problem is. If the BOM is wrong, you need to be more specific.

The whole point of this is to get a list of prices for different DIY projects that realistically reflect the cost to build them by closely following the origonal design. I dont want these costs to be distorted because people have spent an extra $200 to get boutique parts.


Quote:

Originally Posted by skyskraper i think this might get a bit misleading to some members. considering people all over the world build these projects and the pricing may only really apply to the USA.

Yes, prehaps. If people want to tell me how much the parts cost in their home country then i could add it next to the US$ price. But that can get messy and will alow errors to creep in so i'd rather not do that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by blip If we wanted to we could provide a link to a BOM for each of these amps... That way it would be clear how exactly we arrived at each number... Add in a construction link and we would finally have a 1-stop portal for common DIY designs.

Thats a nice idea. I will worry that the information is accurate 1st tho.


Quote:

Originally Posted by amb neither the dynahi nor the dynalo have provisions for mounting a volume control pot on the pcb, so it is not included in the BOM but they are nevertheless an important part of the cost.

That's exactly what i'm looking for. The pot must be included in the cost. Is $15 ok for the Alps RK27 "blue velvet"?

As for the Dynahi, the heatsink costs for the amp must be included but the PSU cost should not be. The cost of the PSU is listed just below. It is easy for people to add 2 numbers together. The cost of the PSU should be kept seperate because some people for example, will want a Dynalo with dual TREADs, and some people will pair the Dynalo with the Dynahi PSU.

 

[Dave_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FritzS I miss here: WNA MK I WNA MK II I build a WNA MK II with special parts an the total cost is about ~ € 320 (~ $ 350)

Is the MKI still available? How much is the MKII without the "special parts". Of the top of my head, isnt it somthing like £150 (~$260)?

 

[meat01]

Here is just an example of why it is hard to come up with a correct cost for these amps:

The Dynalo doesn't take into consideration the volume pot, the RCA jacks, the standoffs, the power switch, the headphone jack, the power jack. All of these items vary in cost depending on which ones you buy. Also if you have to order from multiple places, which you do, shipping adds up. A person may think a Dynalo is a great amp to build, because it only costs $70, yet when you factor in all of the necessary items and shipping it can easily be double that.

 

[NeilR]

Maybe a good compromise would be to add a second column called "Casing Cost", to include standard components not on the board such as jacks, etc. The first column could be called "Board Stuffing Cost". The casing cost should represent (IMO) the cost to do a basic, standard casing job. For a Cmoy or Mint, it would be very fair to assume a mint tin. A commercial case could be considered boutique. For a Millet, maybe a Hammond 1455N1601because that is the only case specifically discussed in the docs and it is easy to source and it is widely used for that project. You can quibble over plastic vs metal end panels, etc., but that gets down to bean counting and beyond the scope of this. For these purposes, maybe the plastic panels because that would get you a working amp. Unless the panel components are snap fit and won't fit on a plastic panel... Consider the metal panels "boutique" unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. Same with black vs natural. Just trying to lay out a reasonable, objective approach to this....

One thing this WOULD do is to impress upon the reader that much (or even most) of the money can go into the casing and panel components. As long as the assumptions are reasonable the point will be made regardless of the specific parts used in the estimate.

Anyone who has even built a Cmoy knows that the REAL out of pocket cost can be many times the theoretical cost. I keep an "As Built BOM" for each of my projects. The sum total of my BOMs is far beneath the total of all my invoices, considering parts bought and not used, parts bought to stock and tinker, tools, supplies, etc., etc., etc. I think this is a great project and it should show the RELATIVE cost of building these different projects. Just getting links for further info all in one place would be very useful.

 

[Dave_M]

ok, it looks like alot of people feel strongly about this so how about if i put next to the cost of the amps, the typical cost to build a complete amp? That includes everything. I can put it next to it in brackets with a note saying somthing like "price in brackets indicates typical cost for a complete amp". Can anyone think of a neater way of doing it let me know. If you think its a good idea then list some costs for the amps and i will fill them in.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_M ok, it looks like alot of people feel strongly about this so how about if i put next to the cost of the amps, the typical cost to build a complete amp? That includes everything. I can put it next to it in brackets with a note saying something like "price in brackets indicates typical cost for a complete amp". Can anyone think of a neater way of doing it let me know. If you think its a good idea then list some costs for the amps and i will fill them in.

While I applaud your efforts I'll reiterate what I said earlier - there is no "typical cost" for any of these amps really. What is reasonable to me might be bonkers to you and cheap to someone else. If you want pure evidence of this just look at the build thread, find 10 or so PIMETAs and then try to compare the relative cost of building each. I've built examples that cost anywhere from $60 to $200, so which is the typical one? I've built Millett Hybrids that cost around $150 to one that cost over $400, again I find it hard to say which is the typical example. And the PPA is an even more troubling example as it can be built to be battery powered or be full blown home amp. There's a good reason that Tangent's parts lists stay away from 90% of the ancillary stuff like jacks, RCAs, cases, etc - because there are way too many choices to be made, he gives a couple examples and expects the individual to do the rest themselves. I'm not trying to discourage your from helping less experienced builders figure out what a project might cost but the simple fact of the matter is that it is time well spent reading Tangents pages over and over again while flipping through catalogs and browsing the web to figure out what you want to do with your project.

Again, just my 2¢,

Nate