DIY Ground Box Thread

[Jake2]

Amazing! Where do you get copper materials like that?

Cheers though I'm not sure it'll all sound amazing (grounding wise anyway) - but it looks cool, no doubt!

I'm quietly confident re the internal shielding of my dac with some heavier gauge copper sheets, supplemented with some mu-metal too in time.

It's all from Aliexpress of course! (This post could equally be in the AliX cables thread).

I'll share a screen shot of my orders when I have a mo, gotta run.

 

[cdacosta]

When I get home later I will share from first research, then experimenting what combination of factors work best, and effect ground box cables. Absolutely different than any other cable in a system.

 

[cdacosta]

Ground Box Cable - what effects the performance?

I think it is good that as many as possible try and experiment with different wiring, geometries, dielectrics, connectors, etc. for building a ground cable. My first suggestion is to use the dual twisted 6N OCC stranded copper (11AWG) with Teflon dielectric I recommend as a baseline to compare to. If using a cable to filter an interconnect, like in the mod, use the 14ga. single run 6N OCC stranded copper wire. This wire is the best I have found for the money so far. I have posted comparisons of this wire vs several others in this thread.

I have read through at least 100+ pages of posts from audiophiles from US, Asia and UK with their trial and tribulations with ground box cabling. Studied Entreq offerings, past and present. Entreq lists the basic designs of the cables, not a secret. From my experimenting with about 40 configurations, here is what I found to be consistent:

* The entire construction of the cable matters. The following will clarify what I mean by "everything within its construction matters".

* Dielectric matters. Too thick of a dielectric or type will smear or oddly accentuate certain frequencies, usually higher frequencies. Not trying air, for obvious reasons like oxidation, thin Teflon is what I have found is best so far.

* Conductor metal, this can be a topic all in itself. But simply copper "can and is usually" the most balanced tonally. Silver like with line transmission cables impart certain tonal characteristics. I have not tried it yet for ground cable applications. It is very possible that if high grade silver conductors are properly burned in first with say a cable cooker it would be more tonally balanced. Even though the ground box cable is not directly in the signal path, the conductor metal have the same effect as with interconnects or line signal transmission. Worst sounding is silver plated copper conductors.

* Best performing conductor type is fine stranded. To better clarify, the best is fine stranded mixed with thicker or multi-sized stranded.

* Purity of conductor matters. OCC performs better than OFC. 6N performs better than 4N.

* The connector matters. How I tested connections was using different soldered brand name audiophile connectors (WBT, Eichmann Bullet copper and silver), solderless clone Furutech and an original Furutech solderless connector. Solder used was Cardas Quad Eutectic, WBT silver and Mundorf Supreme. Then no connector secured with plastic wire tie straight to RCA jack on DAC. The same ground box and stage RCA jack was used for comparisons. So the no connector, Nano Liquid only direct connection was the baseline. The winner was the Furutech clone solderless connector with Nano Liquid. Was audibly the same with no connector connection. This was not what I was expecting.

* Solderless connections performs better than soldered connections.

When I say performs better, I am saying I can hear the effect when changing any of the above. One ground box cable in a system can throw off the balance of a system. Once I learned this, I searched first for wire that was the most balanced. Then went from there. What I did not want was to try and correct within a system what a ground cable did to unbalance the system. I hope this helps you guys out there that want to experiment with building ground box cables...

As an aside and out of curiosity I got some of the Ali 8TC wire. They are actually 20ga. conductor groups x 8 conductor groups= 11AWG. I have not tried building and testing this wire yet. Because of the amount of Teflon dielectric without placing on a cable cooker first, I am not sure I can properly gauge the real performance capability of the wire.

 

[cdacosta]

I forgot to mention about gauge size. I found that too thin like 16ga will lean out the presentation and is not as effective in removing noise. Too thick like over 10 ga. And will bloat bass frequencies and will audibly lose system precision. Sweet spot seems to be between around 11ga and 10 ga. This is what I found, obviously YMMV. What I have wrote in this and the previous post is very audible. There is no is this “placebo” or do I hear a difference?

 

[Jake2]

So I had an interesting evening of trying different ground cables designs against my incumbents (#0) - the 6N 14ga x 2 TM @cdacosta . Sequence of trialling was #1 - 4.



All cables were the same length, all used the same Furutech clone RCAs and pure copper screw down banana plugs. In the pic the RCAs were removed from 1&2 as I only have 4 of the clones so had to move em on to 3&4...

#1 & 2 were 0.5mm thick walled hollow copper tubes with 3mm and 4mm diameters, respectively.

#3 was a 5mm wide 3N(?) copper braid sleeve, 2.5mm^2 cross section of copper (~10ga), but just used flat (They expand like a boa constrictor so I I tried to squeeze the 12mm Teflon/PTFE tube inside it but it wouldn't quite fit)

#4 20mm wide copper braid sleeve, 12mm^2 area (~6-7ga), with the hollow Teflon/PTFE tube (ID 10mm, OD12mm) inserted inside. Thinking was this is desirable to minimise skin effect and create a quasi tube shape which can apparently act like a waveguide at RF frequencies. It was a mission squeezing all that thick bunch of copper wire into the RCA end. It was far too wide to fit in the small screw down channel, filling the entire wide main opening. So I used copper foil tape to hold it in place. At the banana plug end it was a tight but OK fit where again the copper filled the opening but I just manhandled it in just past the first screw (couldn't get to the second).

It's getting late here so I'll get to the punch:
- the 6N incumbents (#0) comfortably saw off 1-3, a more full bodied and refined presentation, with some pleasing warmth and fluidity in the midrange vs the more etched, lean, less nuanced presentations of 1-3, which were all variations on a theme. 1&2 were similar, solid, superficially clean and dynamic but on further listening it was because they etched things... OK but not great. #3 was stronger, more balanced, but still less refined and a little too lean vs #0.

Then I got to number 4 which has some common sound signature with #3, was about to write it off when I realised hold on.. more refinement still, purer treble and what seemed to be a more punchy and defined bass.

Long story short #4 is a bass (definition and weight) and PRaT monster, along with great resolving power in the mids and treble. On its own it still lacked a little refinement, a touch lean still in the midrange, but paired with a 6N cable there was great synergy, the warmth, body and refinement of the 6N in the midrange with the bass on steroids and pure tones of #4.

This is all a WIP, first impressions, foils tomorrow...

Caveats, and there's some big ones, YMMV!
- I have 2kg QA ground boxes, they may benefit more from the massive HF ground plane noise off-ramp of the 6-7ga braid than you folk with larger capacity boxes, 3.5-4kg IIRC
- my main system is still dissasembled so the testing was done on my KEF LS50Ws with KC62 sub attached which goes very low (11hz) if not that loud so resolves low bass like nothing else, especially with a bit of fo.Q help. The KEFs whilst leaning smoother and more forgiving if less resolving than my separates/Focal system are absolutely singing with the ground boxes, better power and clean ethernet.

 

[Dandoudou]

You guys progressed with new kind of wraps, and new cables, and I fell way behind in the application of the tweaks.
This morning, I decided to apply the Nano Liquid thing to all the contacts of the electrical cords, the electrical strips, and to the power plugs of all the devices of the system.
They kept me busy all day long.

 

[bodiebill2]

Thanks, @cdacosta (and the others of course), for creating an extensive handbook for matters ground box!
Your focus is understandably on this thread, but could you please elaborate on this small matter from another thread?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/post-17764272

 

[Dandoudou]

Thanks, @cdacosta (and the others of course), for creating an extensive handbook for matters ground box!
Your focus is understandably on this thread, but could you please elaborate on this small matter from another thread?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/post-17764272

Hi @bodiebill2 ,
You want to put a grounding box on one of your devices.
I wanted to put one of my devices on the grounding box, so I asked advice from @cdacosta if I should do it.

 

[bodiebill2]

Hi @bodiebill2
You want to put a grounding box on one of your devices.
I wanted to put one of my devices on the grounding box, so I asked advice from @cdacosta if I should do it.

I just tried it and I prefer the sound with the ground box at a certain distance (in my case 40 cm) from the device. However, there is still the option to put the ground box attached to device A on top of device B, provided it is not too close.

 

[Dandoudou]

I just tried it and I prefer the sound with the ground box at a certain distance (in my case 40 cm) from the device. However, there is still the option to put the ground box attached to device A on top of device B, provided it is not too close.

I will try putting the AGD preamp on the grounding box, but with the two plates of 3 mm galvanized steel under it.
They seem thick enough to stop a 9 mm bullet, so they should block EMI.

 

[cdacosta]

Entreq recommends a minimum of 20cm distance from other boxes or components for best performance. I tried their theory out and found they are correct. Obviously the box can be placed anywhere someone wants. This is best practice for optimal performance. Easy for anyone to test. The difference for me is audible.

 

[cdacosta]

Rochelle Salt Mini Wrap - Ground Cable Tuning Wrap

Here is a wrap that can be used to add HF spice and open up sound stage a bit. Uses a small amount of Rochelle Salt at the install end of the ground box cable. The effect is immediate and very powerful. My system is getting warm (warmer tubish like), especially after the Mini Wraps at the XLR cable box cables. I wanted to add some top end spice, so experimented further with Rochelle Salt. Rochelle salt absorbs EMI, but medium to large volume of the Rochelle salt has too strong of an effect on any interconnect or ground box cable.

This wrap uses a very small amount of Rochelle salt. With the GBC Enhancement Wrap installed at the ground box end, these Rochelle salt wraps are installed at the component or opposite end of the ground box. One pic shows the Rochelle salt wrap installed at the coax internet coming into home. One pic shows the GBC Enhancement Wrap installed at ground box side. The last pic shows how much Rochelle salt to use in each wrap. Note that you can use less for further tuning of effect. If you do not have any small zip lock bags, you can use Cling Wrap.

Again, one wrap has a big effect sonically and if you have multiple boxes, I would experiment with install locations for best results. If your system is a bit warmer than you want it, this is a banger quick and instant tweak. Currently I only have one of these Rochelle salt wraps installed in my system. Out of 15 possible locations in my system, I tried it in 3 locations and like what it does as depicted.

 

[cdacosta]

I wanted to note that with the Rochelle salt wrap that less is better. When installing a wrap and it sounds a bit off or too much extension of HF, or throws tonal balance off, take some of the Rochelle salt out of the bag/wrap. Every system will be different, so trial and error is required to properly tune with this wrap.

 

[EDhaenens]

I wanted to note that with the Rochelle salt wrap that less is better. When installing a wrap and it sounds a bit off or too much extension of HF, or throws tonal balance off, take some of the Rochelle salt out of the bag/wrap. Every system will be different, so trial and error is required to properly tune with this wrap.

Wow man, the possibilities seem really endless. This kind of tweaking is so much better (and cheaper!) than with expensive cabling. So far, I have not only tweaked my system, i have transformed it from being a little annoying forest troll to a 15 ft bodybuilder giant wearing mithril.
The other day I had a friend come over which is a Bowers & Wilkins hater, and I have BW 702s2’s. Well, let’s just say it was best he sat down when he listened to my system, post grounding boxes and wraps, because he would have fallen over. He said it sounded incredible and that it sounded like there was a subwoofer playing along. That’s a lot coming from him and knowing these are speakers that don’t have the best bass performance.

 

[cdacosta]

i have transformed it from being a little annoying forest troll to a 15 ft bodybuilder giant wearing mithril.

LMAO, I cannot stop laughing!

Amazing how removing noise that masks information can transform a system. How is the interconnect you built with the ground box filtering sounding?