DIY Ground Box Thread
Nov 17, 2023 at 1:29 PM Post #1,111 of 1,580
Nov 17, 2023 at 10:54 PM Post #1,112 of 1,580
GBC Enhancement Wrap - Construction continued and Install

STEP 5)
We are going to wrap the burrito one more time the same way to make sure it all stays together and to prevent any breakage. Really solid after this step. You want a shorter piece of cling wrap this time, like 10" or so. See pic 1 and 2. You are now done with the actual wrap. That is it, once you have made one or two, the others are easy.

The Vinyl for esthetics. The vinyl can also be used for the AC power cable wraps, same install concept. Once the GBC Enhancement Wrap is installed (see below) just take a larger piece of vinyl than the length of the installed wrap and wrap the vinyl around the whole thing. Then secure with Velcro on each end like I did, see pic 3. You want a thin vinyl, one that you can remove the backing as I mentioned in a previous post is preferred. The backing material negatively effected the performance.

Link to what I purchased, I just went to the retail store and picked up a yard. You can buy this likely anywhere:
https://www.joann.com/signature-series-vinyl-54in-black/9131541.html

The Install:

I tested so many minerals combinations, volume, install variations, it was driving me crazy. For the install location, through what seemed like forever trial and error, I found that the best location is at the ground box. See pic 3, pic 4 is with the vinyl installed over the wrap. Oddly enough, how the wrap is installed makes a difference. I found the best performance was wrapping it like in the pic, snaked around the ground cable. Laying flat over the cable I lost some coherency. This wrap can be slid up and down the cable for a slightly different result. I also tried during testing (but not of this final mineral mix), that adding a second one at the component yielded differing results. I recommend what I am showing as a start point, sounds stunning in my system like this.

I know it looks like a turd LMAO, just wait until you hear what it does! I am glad I had the foresight to get the vinyl. LOL

Some final thoughts:
* As I added more of these wraps the system got more resolute. This is very cool because detail retrieval was not something my system is lacking at this stage.
* Because of the higher resolution and clarity I am listening at a lower volume level.
* I will be trying these wraps at other ground box locations in my system, including at the cable mods. I just picked these locations at random because I can easily reach them, so I can listen during install and removal. After the third install it sounded so good, I was like holy sh***t, this is it.
* For some unless they already have many ground boxes in their system or a very refined system, they will start to hear the room acoustics. If they are not use to hearing the acoustics of the venue, that may be odd for them. Until they realize what they are hearing.
* Lastly - have fun!
Finally got around to reading your two posts about the ground box enhancement wrap. May not be getting around to this for a while, first I'll be doing some of the Rochelle salt hacks you mentioned. A few random thoughts/questions:

Did you try Rochelle salt at both ends of the ground box cables instead of this mix at one end and salt on the other?

Mixing the ingredients - what about mixing all in a bowl beforehand and then spooning it onto the cling wrap? That's what I did with my ground box mix.

Tonal balance - were there any combinations of the ingredients that resulted in more of a neutral/fuller sound? Although I dig the effect you mentioned about more detail and resolution, it sort of put me off since I need a little more body rather than treble details.

Here's a new idea that maybe in theory worth considering - place a bare wire of some sort going along the entire length of the wrap in the middle of the mixture. Just a hunch that maybe this would have some sort of a positive effect or bring everything together somehow, similar to those wires in the grounding boxes.
 
Nov 17, 2023 at 11:03 PM Post #1,113 of 1,580
Lets discuss system tuning with the Rochelle salt wraps while absorbing EMI from the junction points.

If you look at the pic, I am pointing at the location of the ground of this light switch. The live line wrap that you see on the right is 1 gram. The smaller wrap on the left is the 0.2 - 0.3 wrap I installed yesterday. This post focuses on the ground wrap for tuning. The live line can also be used for tuning by adjusting volume of Rochelle salt, but not part of this discussion.

I already know that by placing the smaller ground wrap vertically close to the ground on the light switch, system warmth is slightly increased. Horizontally like it is in the pic, but closer to the ground will slightly add more warmth, body weight and bass slam to the system. Out of pure curiosity I wondered what if I move the wrap further away (closer to the edge of the plate) like in the pic, but keeping it horizontal, does anything change? Does minor adjustment or distance effect what is heard? Well apparently it does. Here is a recap of relocating the smaller wrap in relation to ground point of switch, and is probably the same for an outlet:

* Adding a 0.5 gram wrap vertically to wall plate adds a bit of body weight and warmth to system. This will be cumulative with the others installed in your home.
* Adding a 0.5 gram wrap horizontally to wall plate adds a bit more of body weight, bass slam and warmth to system vs installing vertically. This again will be cumulative.
* Adding a less than 0.5 gram wrap horizontally to wall plate adds less body weight, bass slam and warmth to system vs 0.5 grams.
* Adjusting distance of the horizontally placed wrap in relation to ground point of switch (and obviously ground wire) will also change how aggressively the system is being filtered.
* The changes are immediately audible. But takes the system about 30 mins to an hour to settle so you know what your changes fully did.

Keep in mind this is tuning at one junction point. I have 28 junction points treated in my home. The ideal is if when installing the wraps at junction points, that you listen to make sure system is tonally balanced after every 2-3 junction installs. This will make tuning much easier in the end once it all settles in. Once you start treating/installing the wraps at junction points and hear what it does you will understand what I am sharing in this post. Crazy how a slight adjustment in absorbing EMI 50'+ in wiring away from system can make such an audible difference.
 

Attachments

  • Tuning wall switch with RS.jpg
    Tuning wall switch with RS.jpg
    361 KB · Views: 0
Nov 17, 2023 at 11:30 PM Post #1,115 of 1,580
Finally got around to reading your two posts about the ground box enhancement wrap. May not be getting around to this for a while, first I'll be doing some of the Rochelle salt hacks you mentioned. A few random thoughts/questions:

Did you try Rochelle salt at both ends of the ground box cables instead of this mix at one end and salt on the other?

Mixing the ingredients - what about mixing all in a bowl beforehand and then spooning it onto the cling wrap? That's what I did with my ground box mix.

Tonal balance - were there any combinations of the ingredients that resulted in more of a neutral/fuller sound? Although I dig the effect you mentioned about more detail and resolution, it sort of put me off since I need a little more body rather than treble details.

Here's a new idea that maybe in theory worth considering - place a bare wire of some sort going along the entire length of the wrap in the middle of the mixture. Just a hunch that maybe this would have some sort of a positive effect or bring everything together somehow, similar to those wires in the grounding boxes.
I did try the Rochelle salt wraps at both ends, sounds best just at the component or filtered side, especially when a GBC Enhancement wrap is installed at the box side. I spent weeks experimenting with wraps and different ways to enhance ground cable performance.

Most consistent performance from GBC Enhancement wraps is making them one at a time. Mixing in a bowl will give you inconsistent results. Certain minerals will stick to the sides of the bowl or whatever you try to mix it in and give you inconsistent mix of minerals per wrap. Highly recommend against doing this.

Neutral and fuller (more body weight in the presentation) are almost opposite in terms of tonal balance. The GBC Enhancement wraps will offer a bit more body weight to the system's presentation. I would not mess with the mineral mix volumes, the wrap will not perform the same. Another reason not to mix several wraps of minerals in a bowl. I wasted 25+ wrap combinations experimenting "after" dialing in the mineral mix.

The only thing "I think" the wire will do is help to shape the wrap around the ground cable. You will risk breaking the wrap itself from the pointy ends of the wire puncturing the material holding the wrap together. But you can try it to compare if you are curious.

Regarding the Rochelle salt's different applications, I suggest you start with the EMI removal from your homes AC wiring first. This tweak is exceptional. Once you have GBC Enhancement wraps, install a mini wrap on the other end of the ground cable. During the EMI removal from your AC home wiring you can tune and add body weight to the system like I shared in the DIY post and the post I made 20 mins ago. EMI removal from your homes AC wiring will upgrade your system and allow you to tune it. Sounds kind of crazy, but just try it "exactly" as in the DIY. Will be the best single upgrade and tweak you are likely to experience to increase the performance of your system... if you follow what I recommend to do exactly.
 
Nov 17, 2023 at 11:38 PM Post #1,116 of 1,580
Also CDA, did you happen to try perhaps a medium bag of the mixture or two small bags sandwiched on both sides of the cable as compared to spiral wrapped in saran wrap? That would make it easier
Yep tried that, tried larger and small volume versions with exact same mixture. Tried laying straight across the cable, at multiple locations on the cable. Doing it all while listening so I can hear the effects/changes if any real time. Best performance is wrapping around. All testing and experimenting for the design of the ground box and cabling is live while listening.

Only the Magnetite AC power cable wrap and on headphone cables does sandwiching or wrapping the cables increase sonic performance. Countless hours testing and retesting variations.
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 12:45 AM Post #1,117 of 1,580
A couple random thoughts. CDA, I was curious do all of the ground boxes you have those coiled wraps installed on, include a binding post or are just wires to go directly into the mix? Mine is the ladder. Not sure whether or not a direct wire would change the amount of benefit from those.

Following your journey, it's indeed astonishing the number of incremental improvements you have experienced in your sound system. What seems impressive to me is actually the level of further resolution and detail you are able to hear from the chosen headphone transducers. If I remember you have something like Sennheiser HD 800 or ZMF. It's worth noting that there is a finite limit to the detail retrieval capability and instrument separation of any dynamic or planar magnetic transducers. I would be interested to hear your experiences with either electrostatic or AMT headphones with your system. I foresee that would be either the biggest jawdropping experience of your audio life, or revealing about anything that may actually be overcompensating for your current headphones.

Having owned dynamic, electrostatic and AMT headphones for years, I am always quite taken aback when switching between types. No matter how good my system is, a well implemented AMT or electrostatic headphone is just not even in the same galaxy as ANY dynamic headphone. Certain exceptions may be made for the likes of the planar Audeze LCD-5, But in general planar and dynamic headphones still always win (ONLY) for dynamics like bass slam, but seem incapable of holding a candle to the detail retrieval from electrostats especially, with AMT trailing behind given the superior speed at which the transducers move. You could possibly get a used AMT headphone like HEDDphone One for a good price like I did, which I still liked better than the newer smaller HEDDphone 2 I tried at Can Jam SoCal 2023. If going electrostatic, of course that is a different route that requires its own energizer (amp).
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 1:32 AM Post #1,118 of 1,580
A couple random thoughts. CDA, I was curious do all of the ground boxes you have those coiled wraps installed on, include a binding post or are just wires to go directly into the mix? Mine is the ladder. Not sure whether or not a direct wire would change the amount of benefit from those.

Following your journey, it's indeed astonishing the number of incremental improvements you have experienced in your sound system. What seems impressive to me is actually the level of further resolution and detail you are able to hear from the chosen headphone transducers. If I remember you have something like Sennheiser HD 800 or ZMF. It's worth noting that there is a finite limit to the detail retrieval capability and instrument separation of any dynamic or planar magnetic transducers. I would be interested to hear your experiences with either electrostatic or AMT headphones with your system. I foresee that would be either the biggest jawdropping experience of your audio life, or revealing about anything that may actually be overcompensating for your current headphones.

Having owned dynamic, electrostatic and AMT headphones for years, I am always quite taken aback when switching between types. No matter how good my system is, a well implemented AMT or electrostatic headphone is just not even in the same galaxy as ANY dynamic headphone. Certain exceptions may be made for the likes of the planar Audeze LCD-5, But in general planar and dynamic headphones still always win (ONLY) for dynamics like bass slam, but seem incapable of holding a candle to the detail retrieval from electrostats especially, with AMT trailing behind given the superior speed at which the transducers move. You could possibly get a used AMT headphone like HEDDphone One for a good price like I did, which I still liked better than the newer smaller HEDDphone 2 I tried at Can Jam SoCal 2023. If going electrostatic, of course that is a different route that requires its own energizer (amp).
The GBC Enhancement wraps work the same on a ground box with binding post or directly wired. The GBC Enhancement wraps enhance the cable performance, not the ground box. But obviously enhancing the cable performance in turn is elevating the performance of the ground box.

I have/use Audeze LCD-XC 2021 model headphones.

I have tried Heddphone headphones with a RME adi-2 used for the DAC. I had mixed reactions to the setup. Too light bodied (kind of tinny IIRC), pretty good resolution, not enough bass slam. Dryish presentation, sounded very solid state. But the setup I listened to was not highly tweaked so not really sure what the Heddphone is capable of. Was about a 45 mins listening session. Again IIRC, my system now is so much better than that just mentioned combo it is ridiculous. Maybe just not my cup of tea.

Here is what I have learned and it took 24+ years in this hobby to learn. No matter how good a system's gear is, the more noise that is removed from a system the more information is available to be reproduced. That is why I have spent hundreds of hours the last 12 months obsessing and experimenting over the removal of noise from a sound system. The removal of noise, specifically signal ground, AC Hot and earth ground will transform a system performance "dramatically". The more noise that is removed that is hindering the system and masking information on a recording, newer levels of performance transformations happen. AC line conditioners will offer a tiny bit of what I have experimented with and shared as DIY.

Here is an example I recently told a personal friend that is a musician and audiophile. He was at my place listening to my system. If we swapped out a $2K DAC with a $12K DAC it will sound different. The change will probably present a different sonic presentation. Could also be more resolving. Problem is without removing the noise as mentioned above, we will never hear what the newer $12K DAC is capable of. Reason is the new DAC is receiving a polluted line level signal and AC power that is limiting/masking how much of the original recording can be reproduced. This would hold true for the source, amp, DDC or any other part of an audio system. Think about it logically. After you install a ground box to a component, you hear more. Imagine removing 20X what just the one ground box provided by attacking and removing more and more noise. What would your system sound like or be capable of? The last 12 months have taught me that the more noise that is removed from my system the more I hear. May seem like I am rambling, must be heard to really understand. Hope this makes sense.
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 9:38 PM Post #1,119 of 1,580
Tell us what the audible difference is if any? Make sure you do one at a time and listen. LOL you will be able to tune the ground cable and what you hear at the same time.
I've been using 05 ground boxes in my chain. Do I need to use Rochellte salt to all the ground boxes? Otherwise, for the RJ45, where is the best place to use Rochellte salt? Thank you.
 
Nov 19, 2023 at 10:35 PM Post #1,120 of 1,580
I've been using 05 ground boxes in my chain. Do I need to use Rochellte salt to all the ground boxes? Otherwise, for the RJ45, where is the best place to use Rochellte salt? Thank you.
Rochelle salt can be used as part of ground box mineral mix or on the destination end/component filtered end of a ground cable. I only use the Rochelle salt on ground cables with the GBC Enhancement wraps on the ground box end. You can try a 1 gram wrap on a ground cable at the component (filtered end), without a GBC Enhancement wrap and see how that sounds.

With RJ45 you use 1 gram at one or both ends, must try to know which end is best or at both ends. I install at destination end ( for me Router is source, destination end is PC). The wrap is installed right after the RJ45 connector like in the provided pic. You have to listen after install and adjust/tune by adding or removing salt from wrap. Rochelle salt is very potent so starting with less is better than too much.

My suggestion is if you have GBC Enhancement wraps absolutely install Rochelle salt mini wraps at the opposite end. RJ45 is also good, remember less salt is better. Otherwise do this AC line tweak in the "Using Rochelle salt to absorb EMI from your homes AC line to supercharge your audio system performance" post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-ground-box-thread.968372/page-71#post-17820953
 

Attachments

  • Rochelle salt wrap at RJ45 cable.jpg
    Rochelle salt wrap at RJ45 cable.jpg
    94.4 KB · Views: 0
Nov 20, 2023 at 6:11 PM Post #1,121 of 1,580
And Finally... Started my first trip into RS land today.
l am based in the UK, my house set up is a little strange, as l have 3 power breakers in total in my house, due to buildings being added over the years, so with that in mind, l treated two of the power breaker boxes, both 14grams of RS in front of the breakers
20231120_171932.jpg

How does it sound at my end, l have used RS already in my R26, so l was wondering what effect it would have ,just on my two power breakers using 14grams. So very very positive results... lt's hard to express using all the cliques, but it resulted into smoother,but more controlled sound,definitely lowering the noise floor further.
lt was when l revisited Jessie Buckley & Bernard Butler track "For All Or Days...."
l had never heard it sound so good, harshness totally gone, dynamics brilliant, and more importantly when the chorus hits, everything is controlled and where it should be, on my previous set up,this wasn't the case, when the chorus would come in, there would be that harshness,lack of control.

Thanks cdacosta for such a great discovery, next week l will be making up small wraps for all those sockets.
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 6:37 PM Post #1,122 of 1,580
And Finally... Started my first trip into RS land today.
l am based in the UK, my house set up is a little strange, as l have 3 power breakers in total in my house, due to buildings being added over the years, so with that in mind, l treated two of the power breaker boxes, both 14grams of RS in front of the breakers
20231120_171932.jpg
How does it sound at my end, l have used RS already in my R26, so l was wondering what effect it would have ,just on my two power breakers using 14grams. So very very positive results... lt's hard to express using all the cliques, but it resulted into smoother,but more controlled sound,definitely lowering the noise floor further.
lt was when l revisited Jessie Buckley & Bernard Butler track "For All Or Days...."
l had never heard it sound so good, harshness totally gone, dynamics brilliant, and more importantly when the chorus hits, everything is controlled and where it should be, on my previous set up,this wasn't the case, when the chorus would come in, there would be that harshness,lack of control.

Thanks cdacosta for such a great discovery, next week l will be making up small wraps for all those sockets.
Cool, my pleasure. The good news is applying per my DIY post to light switches and outlets, the performance gains are much more profound than at the breakers. Whether on the audio system circuit or not. The effect is cumulative.
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 7:48 PM Post #1,123 of 1,580
I put a baggy in the breaker box.

It definitely reduced noise in my system. The noise that my tube amp was picking up is like 90% gone.

Where else can I apply this?

Is it effective on signal lines or only power?
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 8:01 PM Post #1,124 of 1,580
I put a baggy in the breaker box. It definitely reduced noise in my system. The noise that my tube amp was picking up is like 90% gone. Where else can I apply this? Is it effective on signal lines or only power?
I put a baggy in the breaker box. It definitely reduced noise in my system. The noise that my tube amp was picking up is like 90% gone. Where else can I apply this? Is it effective on signal lines or only power?
I put a baggy in the breaker box. It definitely reduced noise in my system. The noise that my tube amp was picking up is like 90% gone. Where else can I apply this? Is it effective on signal lines or only power?
I put a baggy in the breaker box.

It definitely reduced noise in my system. The noise that my tube amp was picking up is like 90% gone.

Where else can I apply this?

Is it effective on signal lines or only power?
Bro, trust me, you have not heard what is possible. Not even close. Do exactly what I recommend in the DIY post to remove EMI from your AC line at light switch and outlet junctions.

There are other good use cases but this is the easiest, quickest and what I will recommend before messing with anything else. Rochelle salt is great at absorbing EMI but how much used and where to apply is the key.
 
Nov 20, 2023 at 10:26 PM Post #1,125 of 1,580
Do you think this is too much?


20231120_221415.JPG
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top