[musikaladin]

Originally Posted by TJ Elite /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
(...) there are people out there who I've heard say that programmed vocals like hers aren't "real music". This is a very challenging concept for me to grasp, for I've the faintest idea what that even means! I am unable to wrap my mind around how a piece of music could be "fake". I do think I know what they are trying to say, but I still can't agree with such a mentality. (...) Sometimes I feel we humans are a bit too afraid of the word "artificial", when all it means is that something was made or produced rather than being something that occurs naturally. I think people think "artificial" is analogous to "fake", when it is not. And "fake" of course means "inferior", hence the negative attitude. I prefer to think that "artificial" is "different", not "worse". I feel a very deep connection to most Vocaloid music like Luka. The most well-executed emotional pieces have moved me much more profoundly than any human performance I've ever heard. Why this is, I would very much like to know. Perhaps one day I will understand.

 

 
Actually you are touching here one of the most interesting issues in modern music (...of course this applies for many other fields as well, not only music). This is a philosophical matter and it goes deep down to the roots of how we perceive quality.
 
In this relation I would like to mention Robert M. Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". A very profound analysis of why different people perceive one and the same thing totally differently. One story in that book is coming to my mind about a couple driving a BMW bike. On a longer journey they needed a new washer for the motor. Since there was no original spare part available, a friend produced a washer from a coke-tin which perfectly did the job... Still, in the next shop selling BMW parts they changed it against an "original"... they found the tin-washer being "fake"... they were not able seeing the real quality of it, being a disc of metal with a hole in the centre fulfilling a certain technical function perfectly...
 
Again, to me there is no difference in quality whether sound is digitally imitated / modified / created instruments, whether it is  digitally imitated / modified / created human voices, or whether it is totally new digitally created sounds that have no relation to anything "natural".
There is only black and white, 0 and 1, meaning somebody either accepts artificially produced sound and music, or he doesn't. But accepting synthesizer instrumentation combined with "real" human singing (as most people do so nowadays) and at the same time rejecting synthesizer instrumentation combined with digitally created voices as being fake (as many somehow still seem to) is kind of hypocrisy!
As such I have a similar problem with this kind of mentality as you do...
 
Speaking of combining human voice with artificially created instrumentation... here a real pearl in my collection:
 
Harold Budd and Hector Zazou, Glyph. The person who posted it on YouTube commented: "The electronic contrasting and harmonizing with the traditional"... yes, well spoken; this music is proof that the digital and natural worlds are able to live peacefully together, and even enhance each other to new heights... life could be so simple...
 

 
...and then this one...
 
 

 

[FritzS]

 

Arvo Pärt is commonly referred to as a so-called minimalist composer. For me, however, there is nothing "minimal" about his work as far as musical substance and wealth of things to give to the listener go. I would go as far as to say Pärt is one of my favorite composers, living or dead. Some people find minimal music hollow and empty, but I often think the music is as rich as one's soul, you just need to open yourself up and let the music pull out things from within you you didn't even know existed.

 

It is hard for me to think of a piece that manages to touch my very core more thoroughly than "Spiegel im Spiegel" ("Mirror in the Mirror"). In front of this magnificent piece I am naked, emotionally, and I feel it helps me transcend to a higher plane. Many recordings exist of this piece. Below is the first of three performances that appear on the "Alina" album released by ECM as part of their New Series. The work was originally written to be performer as a duet between violin and piano, but the violin is often replaced by either a cello or a viola. Here we hear Vladimir Spivakov on violin and Sergej Bezrodny on piano. The version featuring cello from the same album is also recommended listening. Pärt's choral works are also divine – highly recommended. Of those, "Kanon pokajanen" might be my favorite.
 
 

 
In own this famous CD and some others too
 
Arvo Pärt (born 1935): Symphonie No.3  - Tabula Rasa
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Arvo-P%E4rt-geb-1935-Symphonie-Nr-3/hnum/3141015  
 
Arvo Pärt (born. 1935): Aline - Mirror in Mirror  € 19,99
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Arvo-P%E4rt-geb-1935-Spiegel-im-Spiegel/hnum/1536317 
 
Ludovico Einaudi: In a Time Lapse 
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/Ludovico-Einaudi-In-a-Time-Lapse/hnum/2374881 

 

[musikaladin]

Shakti & McLaughlin, "a handful of beauty", "Isis". One comment in YouTube says "my personal music mantra!!"... and exactly this is what it means to me as well.
There are also some with video around, but all in relatively bad sound quality. Still I recommend to have a look. Amazing!!!
 
I chose here one without video but quite good sound quality, so put on your headphones, close your eyes and fill with wonder....
 

 

[musikaladin]

Originally Posted by TJ Elite /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
(...) To add a contribution to the songs to represent electronic music in this thread, I'm staying away from the biggest and most obvious names like Kraftwerk, Björk and Radiohead and picking a name from the EDM world, as much as I detest the term. (...)

 
...yes, I somehow would also like to look more beyond "the usual suspects"... it's just that... that I simply can't resist the temptation to post this one here... even if it is a very obvious one that was mentioned here before... Yello, this time with "Monolith" from "Pocket Universe". But for all those who like trance and who do not know this one yet (I guess that's most unlikely though) I highly recommend to have a close listen...
 

 
Now something not that obvious and going to a different direction... electronic + acoustic sound in perfect balance... a wonderful song: "Day 7" by The Notwist...
 
"...the shore, I can see the shore from here...."
 
 

 

[Happy Camper]

Subjective practice but

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/q7mgrcULIbs[/VIDEO]

 

[musikaladin]

Jacques Loussier Trio...sure, Vivaldi's 4 seasons are repeated to a extend that you simply don't wanna know anymore about interpretation number iddonntknowhowmanyarealreadythereandnouseincountingthemall...
But this one I really love, even more the brilliantly recorded studio version; still here a live recording, so nice to watch.
 
 

 

[TJ Elite]

 
...you might find the following interesting (whereas the chances that you already know that are pretty high ...
 

 
I first stumbled over Dj Koze when he was still a member of German project "Fischmob" in the mid 90s...
 

 
...I hope you could agree that both deserve a place in this little "Pantheon of Electronica" ...

I have a bit of an unconscious habit of avoiding people with "DJ" in their name, so no, I wasn't familiar with DJ Koze. The track you posted certainly has that hypnotic, trance-inducing quality many people seek from the genre. I had to be told by a good, trusted friend that DJ Shadow makes good music before I checked him out, as ridiculous as that might sound. Electronic music is such a can of worms: There are immediately literally thousands of names that are worth knowing if one decides to take an interest in the genre.

 

Fischmob does sound interesting. A mesmerizing combination of sophisticated rhythms and soothing tones.

 

To add a bit more electronic music to the thread, here's a track called Rest by KIWAMU, which was pretty much my introduction to deep house. I've been in love with the genre ever since. The song has two acts so I've linked them both. I really love KIWAMU's minimal approach and very subtle nuances. He is a label mate of Hiroyuki ODA's, which is how I was introduced to him.

 

 
 

 
Actually you are touching here one of the most interesting issues in modern music (...of course this applies for many other fields as well, not only music). This is a philosophical matter and it goes deep down to the roots of how we perceive quality.
 
In this relation I would like to recommend Robert M. Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". A very profound analysis of why different people perceive one and the same thing totally differently. One story in that book is coming to my mind about a couple driving a BMW. On a longer journey they needed a new washer for the motor. Since there was no original spare part available, a friend produced a washer from a coke-tin which perfectly did the job... Still, in the next shop having BMW parts they changed it... they found the tin-washer being "fake"... they were not able seeing the real quality of it, being a disc of metal with a hole in the centre fulfilling a certain technical function perfectly...
 
Again, to me there is no difference in quality whether sound is digitally imitated / modified / created instruments, whether it is  digitally imitated / modified / created human voices, or whether it is totally new digitally created sounds that have no relation to anything "natural".
There is only black and white, 0 and 1, meaning somebody either accepts artificially produced sound and music, or he doesn't. But accepting synthesizer instrumentation combined with "real" human singing (as most people do so nowadays) and at the same time rejecting synthesizer instrumentation combined with digitally created voices as being fake (as many somehow still seem to) is kind of hypocrisy!
As such I have a similar problem with this kind of mentality as you do...

What you said about hypocrisy is kind of an interesting way of looking at it. That made me think that discriminating artificially created sounds based on their origin is actually kind of analogous to racism, which is still a huge issue every day in this society of ours which we often like to think is so "civilized". A man or a woman getting beaten to death by complete strangers because he or she has sexual relations with a person or persons of the same sex sure is a prime example of humanity at its finest. We humans can get so scared of change and things that are different sometimes. It is easier for us to deny it than try to understand it.

 

In recent years I've become aware of the fact that one of the things I seek most from any form of art is stories, compelling stories. When it comes to music I don't typically care for vocals all that much apart from certain exceptions. The stories that come from music that I most love are ones that aren't told with words but through emotions and abstract ideas and images, and they aren't ones that can really be put to words. Mere words would not be able to do them justice. Also when it comes to fiction, I don't really draw a difference between fictional character and people I know in person. From a philosophical standpoint, how much of a difference is there between the two? If a fictional person could become aware and live in the imaginary world created for him or her, how does that person's life differ from ours? Whether or not the world that person inhabits is "real", that world is still that person's reality. And who is any of us to say that that person's life has any less value than ours?

 

Anyway from these thoughts, here's an example of a song with synthesized vocals. It's by VOCALOTUS, whose real name I believe is Hidetoshi Tanaka, and I assume it to be an arrangement of a traditional Japanese folk song, although it could also just be imitating that style of music. To me at least personally this song meets the criteria of divine moments in music. Nearly every time I listen to it it makes me cry. I could not find the song on YouTube so I had to upload the video below myself to be able to share it with people, and I was in tears watching through it to make sure everything was fine.

 

Vocaloid vocals can be quite challenging to program and require a lot of skill if one desires to try to make them sound natural. I can't speak for what the artist's intentions were when he created the song, but there are some moments during the song that I like to think he might've left intentionally clearly synthetic sounding on purpose. If there is any truth to this, then some could view the song partially also as a statement of sorts if they so choose. I can easily imagine there being people in Japan who would consider this rendition of a traditional piece of music sacrilegious and offensive. To me it's truly moving.

 

I can see music like this making some people feel very conflicted. If we decide to agree that the music is very emotional, then the issue some people will face is that since the singer isn't "real" the emotion we perceive in her singing isn't something she felt when she sang it because her performance was programmed. And that might make some people feel that since the singer isn't real, the emotion isn't real either. That is something that might be easier for some people to accept than that they were moved by something that was sang by a program. Sometimes our minds get in the way and we should just use our ears. That is how I feel anyway. If you feel something, that is real.

 

Also, this style of singing isn't necessarily everybody's cup of tea, and it might sound like a cat getting skinned alive to some regardless of who sang it. 

 

 

---

 
To add a couple more contributions to the thread:
 
Tell me you don't get goosebumps and chills running down your spine when you watch this.
 

 
radio.string.quartet.vienna is pretty unique. They are possibly one of the most innovative contemporary string quartets around. Here's a live version of a song called Song - Ode an den Freud from an album of theirs which was influenced by Sigmund Freud and dreams, titled Radiodream.
 

 

[Garraty]

. 
 
Huge Radiohead fan here. This is the kind of song that you listen to at night when you're feeling very, very sad in your bed alone, thinking. This is a pretty personal song. This is probably my favorite version since it feels even more raw than the studio version and I especially like how Thom changes 'let me out of here' to 'get me out of here'. When I first heard this song, it hit me hard and it still does like good music does- it makes you feel.
 
 
 
 

 
 
My favorite version (live, in fact) of one of my favorite songs from perhaps my favorite male vocalist of all time, Jeff Buckley. What a guy and a shame he died young. Lovely song when you've done a girl wrong. Jeff was one of the few singers that sounded as good live as in the studio and it really does show here.

 

[musikaladin]

 

What you said about hypocrisy is kind of an interesting way of looking at it. That made me think that discriminating artificially created sounds based on their origin is actually kind of analogous to racism, which is still a huge issue every day in this society of ours which we often like to think is so "civilized". A man or a woman getting beaten to death by complete strangers because he or she has sexual relations with a person or persons of the same sex sure is a prime example of humanity at its finest. We humans can get so scared of change and things that are different sometimes. It is easier for us to deny it than try to understand it.

 

 
...after that chip pass:
 
"(...)
quick to judge quick to anger
slow to understand
ignorance and prejudice
and fear walk hand in hand
(...)"
 

 
...from "Moving Pictures"; to me one of the best rock albums ever...

 

[musikaladin]

  To add a couple more contributions to the thread:
 
Tell me you don't get goosebumps and chills running down your spine when you watch this.
 

 
...thanks therefore, that's exactly what I was hoping to find when I started the thread...

 

[TJ Elite]

 
...after that chip pass:
 
"(...)
quick to judge quick to anger
slow to understand
ignorance and prejudice
and fear walk hand in hand
(...)"

Great passage.
 

---

 

In honor of Boris's new album, I thought I should share my favorite record from this Japanese trio without peers and one of my all-time top ten albums, Boris at Last -Feedbacker-. The album is a seamless one-song record with five distinctive parts, or should I call them movements. Best listened from start to finish in one go alone in a dimly-lit room. This album is a journey like no other. Caution: Patience required, but those who have it shall be rewarded. Close your eyes and empty your mind of conscious thought and let the music wash over you. Float in it and forget about your body.
 

 

[musikaladin]

Need to Quote that again:

  Tell me you don't get goosebumps and chills running down your spine when you watch this.

 
...talking about goose bumps…
 
Perception of music is something very dynamic and underlays permanent changes. This is not only valid with the change of musical preferences while getting older and refining ones taste. This can as well be the case for one and the same piece of music over a rather short period of time… first you might just find a song interesting, then you like it more and more to a point where you can’t get enough… and finally… your interest in it will fade.... maybe completely even to a point where you are weary of it; or just to a level that you listen to it less frequently, but still value it. That’s a real personal classic then, and it might be one of those divine masterpieces...
 
Here a small insight into the development of my personal goose bump perception over the years.
 
Along adolescence calf-love-schwärmerei this song by Pavlov’s Dog made me shiver…
My review in iTunes:
(Already issued in 1975) “The album became quite popular in Germany in the early 80s. Until today I perceive it as an ingenious masterpiece. Whereas the writer of another review here in iTunes seems to have a animosity with Surkamp’s falsetto voice; to me this is an ultimate expression of romantic emotion. Put all reservations against male falsetto aside, lean back and enjoy… a real all time classic (…)”
 
Especially the part from 2:18 to 2:15 … I repeated it via the tape recorder’s memory-rewind-function again and again and again…
 
“She's home now, but far away she flies
But she don't know how she came
Or how she leaves
'Cause she's cool, yeah she's cool
She's just like lightening
Take her home, keep her warm in late November”
 

 
Some more that moved me in that era and kept it’s value until today:
 
City, “Am Fenster” ("at the window"), 1978. City was an East German band. The first side of the record of the same name "city" was utmost characterless... Typical communist / socialist song-writing.  I came to the impression that this was done simply to escape censorship... for the sake of what followed on the second side… first a long “just instrumental” intro, and then at around 5:00...
I’m just now listening and when he starts playing the violin it is “goose bumps max”, again with the plucking of the violin and then the duet guitar / violin...
 
„Einmal wissen dieses bleibt fuer immer / trusting just for once that this remains forever
(…)
Einmal fassen tief im Blute fuehlen / Just for once feeling it deep down in my blood
(…)
Flieg ich durch die Welt / I’m flying through the world“
 

 
In the late 80s my preferences changed dramatically. I discovered Zappa for myself, and yes, Zappa did not just know how to burn intellectual musical fireworks, he also knew very well about creating and imparting emotion…
 
Here Zappa’s “The Evil Prince”…
 

 
…and there were most wonderful songs like for example Thomas Dolby's “Budapest by Blimp”
 

 
The 90s again brought totally different stuff. Here one example I never got bored of, Arrested Development with “Pride”…
 

 
Since the 2000s we have the pleasure to bail from virtually unlimited sources of music and surely a lot is good for best goose bumping...
 
dEUS with “Slow” is just one of those:
 
“Gently behind the beat
We shuffle on ancient streets
The revert of time
Is our vantage point

We slept for a million years
Lived through a million fears
We are not nervous
We will not ask for more”
 

 
and since this was so nice, here another one by dEUS, “Pocket Revolution”
…beam me up… at 3:40… and then completely ejecting into space at 4:40…
 

 
And last but not least Placebo's "Meds"
 

 
So much for today’s emotional eruptions... more to come...

 

[musikaladin]

Tab Two, Joo Kraus & Hellmut Hattler
 
I saw Joo live the first time that must have been end of the 80s in Cafe d'Art in Ulm. He was playing an EVI, which in addition to the push buttons also has kind of a jog-wheel.
 
I guess it was this one:
 

 
...he literally blew the audience away...
 
In the 90s I saw Tab Two on several concerts. I own some of their studio CDs but always preferred them live.
 
They separated 1999 each going on with different projects, 13 years later, to my pleasure reunited for some touring (and more?).
 
Still, here a 1997 live-recording...
 
 
 
PS: ...and now I even found one with EVI... see yourself...
 
 
 
PS: I just downloaded their 2012 "Live at the Roxy" as flac here... by the way, sounds great via my AH-D7100

 

[mutabor]

This thing is pretty powerful when in good quality. Used to love it. Mysterious and hypnotic stuff. 
 

 
Dance of Kali - Prem Joshua
 

 

 

[PleasantSounds]

Press Play and watch the magic unfold: