Discussion Of What Is "High End"
Aug 15, 2009 at 2:46 PM Post #136 of 209
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Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Based upon the sound quality of most modern recordings, a lot of people roll their eyes at the thought of audio professionals.
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ouch... bullseye!!!
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Aug 16, 2009 at 8:21 AM Post #139 of 209
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Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It is a MONO power amp and it has RCA SPDIF in/outputs???????????
That's weird.



It looks like it can take a digital signal so it must have a DAC inside it as well... There is a SPDIF output which I guess goes into the other monoblock...

Price x 2 ...ouch.
 
Sep 9, 2009 at 5:44 PM Post #140 of 209
High End to me means that the item or piece of equipment is not built before you buy it. Additionally, the equipment in question has to be installed by a company authorized representative as were my McIntosh 1.2KWs; the piece of equipment in question is built from scratch in a factory where all the parts are made and not outsourced to other companies to make; Where a higher level of customer service is provided; where you can go to a factory authorized dealership or as they say audio salon and listen without being rushed, where the dealership such as Lyric Hi Fi invite you to there special events such as Album Night where they play a full Cd on a beyond high end system; Where you can borrow out pieces of equipment to audition in your own home; Where the sales person comes to your house to assess what equipment you have and then gives you a set of reccomendations. High End is going the extra mile to sell you a complete piece of equipment with every possible need of the buyer anticipated and considered. High End may not be a matter of how much money a piece of equipment costs but how the customer is catered to. I am very lucky that I live in a neighborhood where there are three high end stores within blocks of me and another two or three within a mile or so. High End is an option it is not a requirement for good sound. Scottsmrnyc
 
Sep 9, 2009 at 5:55 PM Post #141 of 209
Another point about high end is that it your option to have high end audio and not have a high end car or high end apartment or house. Some people take a high end vacation. The hotels used in our canjams in particular the one in LA was in my opinion close to being high end. Everyone finds a way to have some element in their lives that can be considered high end. Perhaps a box seat to Yankee Stadium or a nice dinner out! It certainly is great to have the choice every once in a while to enjoy yourself in some way. Scottsmrnyc
 
Sep 21, 2009 at 2:31 AM Post #142 of 209
I might add that DBT is actually seldom valid in audio. Despite its scientific promise it offers no guarantee of delivering a valid observation. I related elsewhere about witnessing a change being commented on at length and backed up with the usual audiophile terms, and by most present. Then it was discovered that (accidentally) nothing had been changed. DBT appeals to psychologists, sociologists and marketing professionals, and it provides proof of nothing except how complex perception is.

I also note the mention of measurements. Trust but verify is a nice concept, but over the years meter men have been responsible for as much bad information about audio sound quality as true believers of concepts not remotely demonstrate-able. Neither approach reveals reality any better than actually hearing it for yourself. Both approaches are famous for facilitating smoke and mirrors, and neither can be demonstrated to prove anything meaningful re:sound quality to be true or false. In really egregious cases like the frequency reproduction of Bose systems, measurements can demonstrate gross faults. But they are useless when separating a good system from a great one.

One thing that should never be considered in defining high end is fancy appearance. Quality construction and fit and finish can be a plus for an equipment owner. It implies a degree of added reliability. But unless you mean the self serving BS definition of high end by the usual purveyors of expensive equipment which may or may not sound wonderful, it must be agreed that Italian design and red/chrome cages over tubes are not a factor in the end result we want from high end. That would be great sound quality.

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Based on this there are of course a strong correlation between price and High-End.


That makes as much sense as the old bad example, "All gangsters are Italian, so all Italians are gangsters." There is no real sense or logic in it. Much that is labeled High End is so ridiculously overpriced that it invokes laughter. The intended market(s) for such wares - people of much wealth, a desire to own the best and obtain exclusivity, and who possess no real audio experience or knowledge - are well known for not buying great performing equipment if it does not cost a lot. Just one example, I can tell you Grommes would have sold a lot more amps if they had charged more for them.
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Professionals know that all the replay equipment in the world (at any price) is only as good as the acoustic environment in which it's placed.


I very much enjoyed gregorio's post but this bit begs clarification. On a speaker forum I have been saying "It's the room" until I turn blue in the face. This, on the other hand, is a headphone site. Room treatment, other than say a nice oriental rug or your favorite music posters to enhance the mood, is for headphone listeners as useless as throwing a salt shaker into the ocean.

Clark
 
Oct 5, 2009 at 11:59 AM Post #145 of 209
I do not agreed that HIGH END means Higher price tag , you see I saw a lots "D.i.Y.er" They build they own audio equipment including Cable as well ! \They use they knowledge Power to get far more then unbelievable audiophile sound quality ( One of them from my country , even digging a underground space for sub woofer to get super low frequency )
 
Oct 10, 2009 at 5:07 PM Post #147 of 209
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Originally Posted by Harmony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
High End means for me: the technical solving of music reproduction problems which don't exist for a too high end price!


If there is good high end and bad high end, that is a great description of bad high end. I prefer the term B.S. high end.
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Clark
 
Nov 1, 2009 at 3:44 PM Post #148 of 209
OK, so as a newcomer to all this, can anyoen give me some idea of where the cut-off line is in terms of products. I am getting my first proper set of phones soon (Sennheiser HD650) which to me are expensive. What sort of products are the most affordable in terms being 'High End' - ie just how much do I need to save/spend to experience what might be called high end ?
Is there anyone who might be brave enough to compile a short list of say 3 amps and 3 sets of phones that might be affordable in time to those of us without bulging wallets ?
 
Nov 1, 2009 at 6:10 PM Post #149 of 209
Don't forget source in that equation. If you had a technically perfect amp and headphone, you'd hear crap with a compromised signal.
 
Nov 1, 2009 at 8:24 PM Post #150 of 209
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevewestern /img/forum/go_quote.gif
OK, so as a newcomer to all this, can anyoen give me some idea of where the cut-off line is in terms of products. I am getting my first proper set of phones soon (Sennheiser HD650) which to me are expensive. What sort of products are the most affordable in terms being 'High End' - ie just how much do I need to save/spend to experience what might be called high end ?
Is there anyone who might be brave enough to compile a short list of say 3 amps and 3 sets of phones that might be affordable in time to those of us without bulging wallets ?



It's not that easy, and you can't think of headphones alone, but need to consider the whole system. The 650s, just for example, can be very mid-fi or hi-fi depending on the other components in your rig. If you're talking about a budget, getting the 650s to "hi-fi" may actually cost more than other gear. I'm not sure what your definition of affordable is, but you can get really good sounding gear at almost any price point. Since you've posted this in the high-end forum, much of what's discussed here is not exactly budget gear. You can get what would be considered bargains if talking sq to price ratio with some great DIY amps, but even then, if you're wanting real high end, those can get pricey as well.
 

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