[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having said that, I don't have any vinyl left, but have a reasonably big CD collection which I doubt I'd be able to find on any other format. For me, I'd rather get the best out of the music I WANT to listen to, as against chose a format that encourages/restricts me to a specific set of disks and musical choices.

Thats where vinyl loses big time[disregarding a record slowly degrading over time]. Unless your tastes happen to exactly match whats on vinyl, you're likely going to be listening to music because it on vinyl or re-listening to albums a lot.
I listen to songs because I like them.

 

[krmathis]

You sure got me!
Until I opened the thread and found out that you very only kidding.

Vinyl sure have its league. But most of us use digital audio for simplicity reason, more than for actual sound quality

 

[philodox]

Most people who say that Vinyl clearly beats Digital arrive at that conclusion by comparing a hi-fi Vinyl rig that has been tweaked to perfection with a simple mid-fi Digital rig. It is no wonder they arrive at the conclusion they do. I'm not convinced yet though... Digital can sound absolutely amazing. My Digital rig is pretty good, but having heard Bozebuttons rig at the first National meet I know that I have a long way to go before I achieve perfection.

There is also the sad fact that while Vinyl is usually given special care in the mastering stage, Digital is often tweaked to sound good on the crap most people have in their homes. It doesn't have to sound so loud and congested, but some of it does unfortunately. I'm just glad that a large part of the music I listen to is made by people who have a clue and don't let this happen to their albums.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard these rumours that vinyl is noisier than CD. Is it true though??? Vinyl were made from the master recordings done on tape.The S?N ratio of tape is the limiting factor. Any recordings made from a master tape is limited in S/N ratio to that of the tape. I have both the vinyl and the CD versions of recordings from a number of artist that were 1st put down on analog tape. The noise floor on both is the same.

CD has an advantage in SNR, it has a real world SNR of ~ 93db across the 20 - 20K range. Exotic Vinyl such as half-speed mastered recordings has been measured at ~ 80db but these are rare and limited to about 16 mins per side, real world measurements tend to the 70 - 75 db range. SNR does vary with frequency range but overall CD has better measured specs.

If the analog master has a SNR of 60db, i.e the noise is 60db below signal then a CD transcription of same will faithfully render that noise level, i.e though the CD format can do 93db if the music signal is noisy the CD recording wont make it less noisy.

I have a few Lute Music CDs and the recording noise is quite apparent, it seems mostly to be room noise and perhaps a hint of tape transport noise, CD wont take away noise that is already there.

 

[Bjornboy81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everything to do with pleasure.It's like having a wife and a mistress. The one serves the needs that the other one can't. Most people don't quite understand the pleasure of owning and playing vinyl, until they have tried it. Just like a mistress.

LMAO...I love the comparison!

This thread is very dicouraging. I'm trying to get into vinyl on the cheap (found a TT and got it working, building my own preamp, getting a cheap cartridge, etc.) I just want to try it out before I start putting real money into it. But if you don't start seeing (or hearing I guess would be the case) a difference until you drop around $2000, I may as well save my $100 and just stop now.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjornboy81 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is very dicouraging. I'm trying to get into vinyl on the cheap (found a TT and got it working, building my own preamp, getting a cheap cartridge, etc.) I just want to try it out before I start putting real money into it. But if you don't start seeing (or hearing I guess would be the case) a difference until you drop around $2000, I may as well save my $100 and just stop now.

I am fortunate to have 3 turntable rigs. One is about U$300, the other about U$800, and the top one about U$3000. Using the same cartridges and phono pre-amps on all 3 decks it takes a professional set of ears to pick out the differences. My cheapest set up with a moving coil cartridge is good enough for even critical listening. My top two are eye catchers that do sound good, but I am not bothered if I spin any records on them.

Top affordable rig to blow away many expensive set ups: Technics 1200 with original arm plus Denon 103 cart.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats where vinyl loses big time[disregarding a record slowly degrading over time]. Unless your tastes happen to exactly match whats on vinyl, you're likely going to be listening to music because it on vinyl or re-listening to albums a lot. I listen to songs because I like them.

A record treated with care won't really degrade over time. Not in the sense that I'm thinking of, because in that case even CDs will degrade over time (CD rot).

 

[Zarathustra19]

I have one of the crappiest vinyl rigs there could possibly be (pioneer turntable from the 80's, audio technica cartridge, Pioneer amp, Pioneer speakers) but I still notice a difference between digital and vinyl. It doesn't necessarily sound "better", but it has a different sound that I really enjoy. There's nothing like popping Isis's "In the Absence of Truth" on the turntable, sitting back and sinking into aural bliss. Hopefully a better turntable is in my future *fingers crossed* so I don't have to deal with the fact that this on can't play 45's at the right speed anymore

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hopefully a better turntable is in my future *fingers crossed* so I don't have to deal with the fact that this on can't play 45's at the right speed anymore

It's a common fault on many Pioneer turntables. There was a mod issued for it.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats where vinyl loses big time[disregarding a record slowly degrading over time]. Unless your tastes happen to exactly match whats on vinyl, you're likely going to be listening to music because it on vinyl or re-listening to albums a lot.

This thread is a jaw dropper of misinformation (record wear, cost of putting together a good sounding turntable, etc.) but this one really takes the cake. The range of music on records is HUGE compared to CDs. Records were produced for over 75 years, a time period that spanned the most productive and revolutionary musical era in American music. If you find that there isn't much on records to listen to, it's not the records that are limited. Your tastes in music are.

See ya
Steve

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is a jaw dropper of misinformation (record wear, cost of putting together a good sounding turntable, etc.)

Ditto. The sad fact is that quite a few people on head-fi have only heard about vinyl, but not actually owned a turntable set up.

I saw a Sansui SR222 MKII on eBay this morning. I remember building a high quality set up for a friend around such a Sansui. The eBay price of that TT is almost the cost of a few bottles of beer. But so little is known about good quality spinners like that. People have been programmed with LP12, VPI, Rega, etc. In the mean time even better turntables are going dirt cheap on auction sites.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Top affordable rig to blow away many expensive set ups: Technics 1200 with original arm plus Denon 103 cart.

Well, that sounds reasonable. I'll keep my eyes open for something like that. I'm not against the idea of liking vinyl, I just have yet to hear a vinyl rig that really wow'ed me.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is a jaw dropper of misinformation (record wear, cost of putting together a good sounding turntable, etc.) but this one really takes the cake. The range of music on records is HUGE compared to CDs. Records were produced for over 75 years, a time period that spanned the most productive and revolutionary musical era in American music. If you find that there isn't much on records to listen to, it's not the records that are limited. Your tastes in music are. See ya Steve

Lol, there might be loads of music on vinyl, but I don't listen to 50 year-old music much. Nor does anyone else I know.

Of course vinyl degrades with use, is someone denying wear is induced by 2 moving things coming in contact with one another? Unless we're talking players with LASER pick-ups?

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lol, there might be loads of music on vinyl, but I don't listen to 50 year-old music much. Nor does anyone else I know.

Almost every single RAP, Hip Hop, and R&B hit record released this year is available on vinyl. You don't have to go back 50 years.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lol, there might be loads of music on vinyl, but I don't listen to 50 year-old music much. Nor does anyone else I know.

Really ? - much of the music I listen to is 200 - 300 years old, some of it is over 400 years old. Mind you, even if I was into vinyl I wouldnt bother with 1950s mono recordings, I have some 1950s recordings from Bayreuth and they are just plain awful.

Quote:

Of course vinyl degrades with use, is someone denying wear is induced by 2 moving things coming in contact with one another?

Er, doesnt that depend on the relative hardness of the two objects, and the friction of the intersection, water dripping on a rock will wear it away but it will take a lot of water and a long long time.