[Sarchi]

Haha....no, it's not. But I got you to look.

Seriously though, I've slowly come to the grudging admission that below a certain price point, there's probably more enjoyment of music to be had from CD's (and FLAC) than from vinyl. I'm not sure what that threshold is; but I'd probably peg it somewhere around $2000-2500.

That's just hardware too. Records can sound wonderful, but the dirt-cheap used pressings from the bargain bins rarely do.

Which means that many people trying to get into vinyl just aren't hearing what all the fuss is about. And that's a pity.

 

[vcoheda]

i recall reading some articles that did some tests and found that vinyl had a greater dynamic range than CD (across the board - low to high), but that CD had less surface noise.

the conclusion was that vinyl overall did sound better - but it was close.

 

[Sarchi]

S/N ratio definitely favors digital. And sometimes that means a lot, when you 're an audiophile listening for "inner detail", etc.

Vinyl is capable of serving up extremely high resolution, at least within our normal range of audibility. My point is that it don't come cheap.

 

[compuryan]

Its a little like the sound between tube amps and ss amps. Tubes are going to have more life and realism while ss is going to have more accuracy and clarity. Its a fact that almost all records have some background noise while cds don't.

*disclaimer*
of course if you have a flawless record and a flawless setup, vinyl will kick cds in every way.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i recall reading some articles that did some tests and found that vinyl had a greater dynamic range than CD (across the board - low to high), but that CD had less surface noise. the conclusion was that vinyl overall did sound better - but it was close.

for the most part neither format uses its potential dynamic range from my limited understanding. If they did your drivers would come out of your enclosures on spikes in loudness.

Where vinyl has the edge imho is the format tends to have better masters done in that for most jazz and rock the cds tend to be more compressed in essence diving up the edge the format has in dynamc range. So the loud parts and soft parts are all about the same volume.
Also many cds of older source material use No Noise a program that takes out the tape hiss but also seems to remove alot of the air in a recording.

we have discussed this to death here but it's fun to talk about. I beleive for a nominal sum (1K) you can get a TT, cart and phono pre that will sound really good . You would need to buy used though to get a decent rig at that price.

Vinyl is not plug and play either and needs care and feeding to sound best where cds are plug and play. I like vunyl but I also like the ritual that goes along with it, it is not for everyone.

 

[vcoheda]

i like vinyl but with 1500+ CDs, i don't see myself going there anytime soon. plus i love upsampling (CD only).

 

[humanafterall]

It's too bad that all that potential dynamic range on cd's isn't used due to the "loudness war". I prefer the sound of my older 90s cd's to the newer ones. It's a pitty, there are some good albums that become unlistenable because of the crappy recording quality.

my 2 cents.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuryan /img/forum/go_quote.gif of course if you have a flawless record and a flawless setup, vinyl will kick cds in every way.

Yeah, but how long are you going to have a flawless record for? After a few rotations, the needle will have etched away microscopic amounts of vinyl. The fact that vinyl degrades after each play doesn't make it feasible for longevity or audiophile listening sessions. But yes, that first play of a record can blow a CD out of the water with a killer turntable rig.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanafterall /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's too bad that all that potential dynamic range on cd's isn't used due to the "loudness war". I prefer the sound of my older 90s cd's to the newer ones. It's a pitty, there are some good albums that become unlistenable because of the crappy recording quality. my 2 cents.

That's because of something called "hot mastering."

The industry cranks up the signal to high levels before making the glass master. They do this so that music stands out when played on the radio. But this makes for horrible CD quality, as many of the levels are peaking, and kills the dynamic range. One of my best sounding CDs is Thomas Dolby's "The Flat Earth."

 

[Herandu]

I have heard these rumours that vinyl is noisier than CD. Is it true though??? Vinyl were made from the master recordings done on tape.The S?N ratio of tape is the limiting factor. Any recordings made from a master tape is limited in S/N ratio to that of the tape.
I have both the vinyl and the CD versions of recordings from a number of artist that were 1st put down on analog tape. The noise floor on both is the same.

Regarding cost of getting enjoyment from vinyl compared to CD. The suggestion that you have to spend U$2000 or more are the things that point to someone with absolutely no idea of what he is writing. A modest U$1K vinyl setup can compete against a CD set up costing twice that or even more. You just need to know what to get.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

My personal view is that a good vinyl system can sound better, but frankly is it even relevant anymore?
The key point is about getting the best out of you the music collection that you have or expect to have. I know that a lot of my CDs will simply never be available on vinyl (or SACD), so moving to another format is just counterproductive. After all, we buy this kit to listen to music, not to simply aim for the ultimate reproduction of a small number of disks.

Excluding all of that, I just love having all of my CDs available at the touch of a remote as I use hard drive streaming. Vinyl will never get close to that level of functionality (and safety of the kit when faced with small prying fingers).

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif My personal view is that a good vinyl system can sound better, but frankly is it even relevant anymore?

Why drive a car with a manual gearbox, when an automatic is easier? Or why bother cooking when you can buy food already cooked?
Nothing to do with relevance. Everything to do with pleasure.It's like having a wife and a mistress. The one serves the needs that the other one can't.

Most people don't quite understand the pleasure of owning and playing vinyl, until they have tried it. Just like a mistress.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most people don't quite understand the pleasure of owning and playing vinyl, until they have tried it. Just like a mistress.

Guess I didn't quite explain myself well enough.
I am an ex LP12 owner from a number of years ago, and have happily dribbled over decks like a VPI HRX that I was blown away by a couple of years back.

Having said that, I don't have any vinyl left, but have a reasonably big CD collection which I doubt I'd be able to find on any other format. For me, I'd rather get the best out of the music I WANT to listen to, as against chose a format that encourages/restricts me to a specific set of disks and musical choices.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me, I'd rather get the best out of the music I WANT to listen to, as against chose a format that encourages/restricts me to a specific set of disks and musical choices.

I can only get certain types of music in certain lengths on vinyl. Like the extended reggae tracks. Many underground House, Hip Hip, etc tracks are also not easy to get on CD.
It is however not just the listening to music, but the pleasure of being involved a lot more with the music when it is on vinyl. CD is too clinical in its operation.

I can appreciate your position on vinyl after having owned a LP12. I never liked or rated the LP12.

 

[wower]

Actually the OP stated my exact view on vinyl that I haved posted else (and not to popular acclaim). At the price point I have to work within, CD is definately but, and SACD is an upgrade even from that. I have no doubt there comes a point where vinyl pulls away from CD, and it probably is in the crucial 2.5k range. But it will be awhile until I get there again. At the end of the day, listen to what you like, I won't force any vinyl lover to listen to my future 3-box Esoteric unit.