[MS1605]

I need some advice HF. I just got into higher end audio last month and I pre-ordered the Ibasso DX100. After hearing about all the bugs, Im going to just flip it when I get it. The minor problems that it has are all the little problems that would bug the hell out of me. 
So after doing a bunch more searching on what my first portable rig is going to be, I regret that I think the Ipod fits my needs the best. Even though I really do hate Itunes. Right now im going back and forth between the Touch and a classic. Really my only prerequisites  for my DAP is that it plays FLAC, can be used with an Amp/DAC and has a decent UI. From what I understand the Classic can play FLAC with rockbox and there are apps you can download for the touch to play FLAC. 
 
The question is, are there any upsides to one over the other in regards to add-on hardware or anything like that that a newbie like me could be overlooking? Any reason to choose one over the other based on SQ or potential, anything like that? 
 
What I think im going to do for my first (well second after the DX100) Portable rig is one of the 2 mentioned above, Fiio L9, and Fiio E17. 
 
The only other thing I am not 100% certain on is the E17. I want this to be pocketable with cargo shorts and from what I read, the Fiio has one of the best quality to size ratio out there. The other Amp I was looking at was the HeadAmp Pico slim. Its double the price of the Fiio though. I need to keep researching and see what people are saying about it. I dont have any problem spending the money on it if it performs that much better than the E17.
 
Any input on the Ipods or the Amp would be greatly appreciated. After a few hundred hours of researching gear your head starts to spin!

 

[Matt head 777]

some of the apple products have lower output impedance which is better, some use Wolfson dac which is recommended.
you might not need an amp with your headphones.
 
 

 

[MS1605]

Thanks for the reply. I'm assuming you don't know these specs until you open the iPod up?

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Thanks for the reply. I'm assuming you don't know these specs until you open the iPod up?

No. It's online. Current gen classics have an Cirrus Logic. iPod 5 and 5.5G's seem to have the best audiophile sounding DAC's.
 
I'm not sure on FLAC support for iOS as a download though. I see it and it's there but how well it works and if it might degrade quality is unknown.
 
The main problem people have with iTunes is that we are humans. iTunes is so exact that if files are messed up, you have a file that is missing or gone that you moved and forgot. Tags and all that, that it seems to be a hassle. I raged many times with iTunes in the past but it's fine now. You just have to get used to it.
 
There are these packs that hold an classic and also an amp but who knows :/ Also you need a case on the Touch and maybe Classic. The band that comes with the E17 slides a lot on the metal to metal contact.
 
Keep in mind that the E17 will NOT bypass your ipod's DAC. It will serve as an amp only when you are out.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought
Read this thread if you want. This is the best review of the E17 and also serves as the main info thread or chat thread on the E17. Read pages 50-80 and 100-120 for the most info on what it does and stuff.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e17
Here is the wiki page. I edited and wrote the whole page except for the one review by the other guy. The video is also one that I made that shows how to use the device and stuff and all that.
 
 
I'm actually suprised that you would get an iPod and E17 combo as opposed to the iBasso but hey. I guess this to you might suit your needs better.
 
 
Any other questions? I can answer most.

 

[MS1605]

Great information. 
 
So why is it that the E17 will not bypass the DAC but the CypherLabs AlgoRhythm Solo does? Its funny you bring this up because I read a bunch about this combo:
 
http://aloaudio.com/algorhythm-solo-rx-mk2-amp-alo-audio-interconnects-combo-package-black.html
 
and from what I can read it has very good reviews. Obviously a lot more expensive than just the E17 and a little bigger but I still think that will be Cargo pocket Pocketable. 
 
A have been reading a lot about the really small amps like the pico, Arrow, all fo Fiio's stuff, etc having problems running bigger cans. I dont own IEMs so I really need something that will power some bigger cans yet still have a decently small form factor. 
 
 
As for the Ipod over the Ibasso, have you been following the dx100 thread? People are claiming that after you fill up the DAP it gets really sluggish. Than there are problems with album artwork, Songs not playing in order, etc. To me, UI and a nice smooth navigation are almost just as important as good sound quality. Im not down to pay almost $800 bucks for a DAP that sounds amazing but makes me want to punch a baby when navigating it. There was just a lot of things that rubbed me the wrong way. I think the player has amazing potential with the hardware and the fact that it is android based I just think there are some software problems that still need to be worked out and I dont think the ARM processor is fast enough for that unit. I really thing the CPU is going to be its downfall.  Its like putting a honda motor in a Ferrari. This is all just based off of what I read on other owners current experience though. Who knows.
 
I am going to read your links now. Thanks for all the input!

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Great information. 
 
So why is it that the E17 will not bypass the DAC but the CypherLabs AlgoRhythm Solo does? Its funny you bring this up because I read a bunch about this combo:
 
http://aloaudio.com/algorhythm-solo-rx-mk2-amp-alo-audio-interconnects-combo-package-black.html
 
and from what I can read it has very good reviews. Obviously a lot more expensive than just the E17 and a little bigger but I still think that will be Cargo pocket Pocketable. 
 
A have been reading a lot about the really small amps like the pico, Arrow, all fo Fiio's stuff, etc having problems running bigger cans. I dont own IEMs so I really need something that will power some bigger cans yet still have a decently small form factor. 
 
 
As for the Ipod over the Ibasso, have you been following the dx100 thread? People are claiming that after you fill up the DAP it gets really sluggish. Than there are problems with album artwork, Songs not playing in order, etc. To me, UI and a nice smooth navigation are almost just as important as good sound quality. Im not down to pay almost $800 bucks for a DAP that sounds amazing but makes me want to punch a baby when navigating it. There was just a lot of things that rubbed me the wrong way. I think the player has amazing potential with the hardware and the fact that it is android based I just think there are some software problems that still need to be worked out and I dont think the ARM processor is fast enough for that unit. I really thing the CPU is going to be its downfall.  Its like putting a honda motor in a Ferrari. This is all just based off of what I read on other owners current experience though. Who knows.
 
I am going to read your links now. Thanks for all the input!

Thanks
 
Only select devices can bypass the DAC of an ipod. To my knowledge the Fostex HP P1 and Cypher Labs Algo Solo are the only portable devices that do this. The HP P1 is more popular. Jude prefers it over the Cypher labs as the Fostex also has an amp. The Cypher requires you to spend another couple hundred for an amp(why get an E11 to pair with an CLAS?) There are many (not super many but more than the portable one's) dedicated desktop devices that can bypass the DAC. There are some Cambridge one's I believe and also a new HRT can too but those are useless to you I think as you are looking for all in one portability. Apple has full control over the dock connection at the bottom. It's their own proprietary technology. They encrypted/blocked use of the DAC (bypassing). Why? Obvious reasons not just to control it. You don't want any 3rd partry to bypass the DAC. Think about it. Apple would have a PR and tech support nightmare from crashes and stuff. So companies like Cypher Labs, HRT, and Fostex by Foster paid Apple lot's of money for the ability to bypass the DAC. An decryption code of sorts if I remember correctly.
 
I do not follow the iBasso thread. It doesn't interest me.
 
I see what the people are saying though. This is also why FiiO stopped making or planning to make their own DAP. Dreaming up a device with this and this is easy...but a good UI that is bug free(costs way too much money to do these tests) has a fast enough CPU (Apple has contracts with Samsung) and all this other stuff and circuitry implementation that won't slow down the device or what not is also important. It doesn't seem like iBasso has enough exp in this field. I can also see what you mean by getting an iTouch. A new iTouch is sure to come out later this year. Imagine a dual core iPod Touch with Retina display, Camera and all that ....for $199?
 
 
Unless you are a super audiophile, at this point it is not overly important to bypass a DAC. Bypassing an amp is good enough already as the DAC in iPod's are capable. The LOD cables by FiiO will bypass the amp of iPod's. Be careful, there are also LOD cables for Walkman's so make sure to read carefully. 
 
Any other questions? I have all day and week.
 
It will take you a few hours(2hrs I think) to read the thread with the pages I noted, but come back to me if you have any questions. As you will note from the number of posts, and page views of that thread (150K) it is really the main E17 thread. 
 
 
 

 

[MS1605]

Ok, I think its settled then. No need for me to bypass the DAC at this point in my audiophile career. Ipod + Amp will be good enough. Im currently wading through all the pages of the E17 thread. At this point im leaning towards the Ipod touch and amp. Do you have any thoughts on the E17 vs the RX MKII? I dont have any brand Bias, I just have read a lot of good reviews on it. Back to the E17 thread...

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Ok, I think its settled then. No need for me to bypass the DAC at this point in my audiophile career. Ipod + Amp will be good enough. Im currently wading through all the pages of the E17 thread. At this point im leaning towards the Ipod touch and amp. Do you have any thoughts on the E17 vs the RX MKII? I dont have any brand Bias, I just have read a lot of good reviews on it. Back to the E17 thread...

No idea on teh RX MKII.
 
Let me share some experience with you. Unless you have gotten a post and PM'd somebody with experience with BOTH the amps. It's very not comparable. One will swear by the amp or unit that they have. You can post a thread on RX MKII vs E17 and you will get some people that say they like teh E10, others that just have the audioengine D1 and other's that are all HRT fans. Head-Fi has a lot of noise sadly.
 
Keep in mind the RX MK2 does not have a DAC and is 4X the price of the E17. It's hard to compare them. And by the time you spend $450 on an RX MK2 why not go for an HP P1?

 

[ImperialX]

It should be noted FLACs are only supported on the iPod touch if you download dedicated players from the App Store. However, any iPod can decode ALACs. The iPod classic 5.5G has the best DAC as already stated.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

It should be noted FLACs are only supported on the iPod touch if you download dedicated players from the App Store. However, any iPod can decode ALACs. The iPod classic 5.5G has the best DAC as already stated.

I think I said that FLAC support came from the app store? Or was it him?

 

[ImperialX]

Quote:

I think I said that FLAC support came from the app store? Or was it him?

He mentioned it, but it cannot be played through the default music app. Only ALACs can be played that way.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

He mentioned it, but it cannot be played through the default music app. Only ALACs can be played that way.

I took that as a given, one of those things that are taken for granted. But I know what you mean. I've noted that sometimes when you don't note little things like that the other party don't know or realize. I once spent hours on the phone getting somebody to instal a GPU. I went through BIOS. Instructios and guess what it was in the end.. he never plugged his monitor into the GPU itself. I thought it was granted you would unplug monitor plug from motherboard and into GPU..but since I didn't say that..they didn't...wow
 
 
Anyway. There's that little piece of info.
 
And because it's its own app, you now rely on the 3rd party publisher for support and if there are bugs and all that good stuff that goes along with non Apple standard apps 
 
But I'm pretty sure I went through everything that needed to be said generally..not specifically. 
 

 

[lostid]

Rockbox those with the wolfson chips. I did it for my ipod 5g/30GB just a couple of weeks ago and I was blown away by the sound improvement. Wish I rockboxed it LONG time ago.
 
I love how the wolfson chip can be tweaked for bass and treble, as well as the custom channel configuration for stereo width. Everything else is turned off.

 

[ImperialX]

Personally if he hates iTunes he should just get a Cowon. They sound damn good and isn't reliant on proprietary software/formats.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Personally if he hates iTunes he should just get a Cowon. They sound damn good and isn't reliant on proprietary software/formats.

There is that choice. But as a personal choice. I would like to use my own amplifiers. I have heard that the cowon's built in is good enough to dual amp with...but I would still like to bypass the amp and use my own stuff. I don't have a 100% need for FLAC as I just encode it, and the UI of an iPod works for me :/