[bithloman]

@chocomel167 The [obvious] problem with measuring with a loose couple is the measurements are no longer objective. It's more an experiment than a measurement.

Such experiments varying coupling to the test fixture would favor driver designs that are damped (or electronically controlled) for free air, and in as such most likely sound worse in a headphone application even though they vary less with coupling to a microphone. Again, coming at it from what humans hear while listening to music with headphones, testing loosely coupled does not move the measurement bar forward. All it does is favor worse sounding headphones and sh.tty measurements, where the driver could care less about damping, or the person making the test cares less about results. Some 50 cent dynamic driver would look way more consistent uncoupled vs coupled, while a planar or estat, some of the current best sounding headphone driver designs available, would contrast far more.

If the headphone is decoupled, more explanation and information needs to be given, such as photos of the decoupling, or more specifically the circumferential area of decouple. Not only that, a measurement with proper coupling to the test fixture is necessary as a baseline, something lacking from ASR. Otherwise how would anyone know the difference? Amir knows this, yet he's talked a fair number of you into believing that what he's doing is in some way forward thinking. How does this headphone actually measure when used as intended, he doesn't know, does't care, all of the above, from his data we can't tell. In all cases, to be impartial to headphones that have complex shaped ear pads designed to more closely follow head shape, the test fixture must at least attempt to mimic the shape of a human. A flat plate test fixture would only exasperate the decouple from any real life scenario, as is the case with ASR. If his intentions were truly to accurately contrast and compare the affect of head coupling on any given headphone, he would have opted for the test fixture shaped as a head, not a flat plate (photo of both below).

In the end, from my perspective as a headphone designer, and end user of such, looking into the crystal ball shows that making measurements that vary wildly from test to test, experiment to experiment, test set-up to test set-up, subjective desires to subjective desires, will only reduce trust in such to a point where they're nothing but a joke, nothing more than an excuse for poor results and lower sound quality. You guys are most definitely being misdirected on this one, and you don't even see the train coming.

Wait, amir uses the device on the right? with 2 small flat plates acting as the "head"? that is unbelievable. not only will that effect the seal but also the angle at which the drivers are positioned to the ear canal. Also the resonance against flesh compared to flat pieces of metal, and even magnetism from planars depending on if it is metal or not, potentially adding distortion, resonance and reflections in the freq response. seeing this with the knowledge that he said he couldn't get it to seal and posted the negative review anyways as conclusive evidence that abyss is basically a scam is borderline unbelievable.

 

[491838]

What fantasy land are people living in lol? Jude's own measurement shows the same exact roll off in the bass as ASR's graph.

 

[s1m0]

its sad for you that im posting things he posted word for word ? interesting! if me pointing to something he said offends you and makes you imply i shouldn't be aloud to say it. i find your reasoning suspicious. this thread is literally about whether or not he is a credible source for ruining the image of a company. he has said he markets for chinese companies himself. nothing i said it made up, sorry that is offensive to you . he publicly discredits entire companies and this entire website along with the major people here, but i cant take a screenshot of his own words. YIKES @up late

So how it is an issue that Amir discloses his relationships to certain brands? It would be a problem if he did not.

 

[bithloman]

What fantasy land are people living in lol? Jude's own measurement shows the same exact roll off in the bass as ASR's graph.

a place where what you said is literally not true, besides also having a 6db difference between amirs R+L sides which proves his seal was terrible or his pair was broken. also a 12db higher roll off, at 2k head fi measured 90 db and amir measured 97db and at 10k amir is almost 20db off. because of "pad softness". considering his rig is worse and doesnt use a human head shape. his matter of fact comments about abyss even when admitting not being able to get a good seal at times, posting this along with the comments about the brand is damning proof that he either is incompetent or acting in bad faith which he has done before (see my previous post) like using single ended instead of balanced on a balanced product because "i ran out of cables" and then calling it an objective review when the similar products were tested balanced, its incompetent and should be proof of inconsistency.

 

[bithloman]

So how it is an issue that Amir discloses his relationships to certain brands? It would be a problem if he did not.

yes it would be a huge problem, he literally made fun of these measurements done by this forum because abyss is a sponsor, clearly stated by head fi. he insinuated that somehow that makes head fi corrupt? i mean isnt that the definition of hypocrisy and projection?

 

[chocomel167]

a place where what you said is literally not true, besides also having a 6db difference between amirs R+L sides which proves his seal was terrible or his pair was broken. also a 12db higher roll off, at 2k head fi measured 90 db and amir measured 97db and at 10k amir is almost 20db off. because of "pad softness". considering his rig is worse and doesnt use a human head shape. his matter of fact comments about abyss even when admitting not being able to get a good seal at times, posting this along with the comments about the brand is damning proof that he either is incompetent or acting in bad faith which he has done before (see my previous post) like using single ended instead of balanced on a balanced product because "i ran out of cables" and then calling it an objective review when the similar products were tested balanced, its incompetent and should be proof of inconsistency.

You realize you're looking at two significantly different Measurement systems here?

 

[elira]

obviously flawed measurement

When there’s so much variation in the measurements, how would you decide which ones are the “good” ones?

said "well i cant get them to seal so they dont DESERVE the extra work on my part to get 100% a good seal like on a human head with curves".

He has stated that he posted the measurements that matched his experience wearing the headphones, most likely the same lack of seal happens on his human head.

 

[chocomel167]

@chocomel167 The [obvious] problem with measuring with a loose couple is the measurements are no longer objective. It's more an experiment than a measurement.

All Jude's measurements indicate a leaky front volume, would you recommend regarding his measurements as not objective and experiments as well?

Such experiments varying coupling to the test fixture would favor driver designs that are damped (or electronically controlled) for free air, and in as such most likely sound worse in a headphone application even though they vary less with coupling to a microphone. Again, coming at it from what humans hear while listening to music with headphones, testing loosely coupled does not move the measurement bar forward. All it does is favor worse sounding headphones and sh.tty measurements, where the driver could care less about damping, or the person making the test cares less about results. Some 50 cent dynamic driver would look way more consistent uncoupled vs coupled, while a planar or estat, some of the current best sounding headphone driver designs available, would contrast far more.

If some headphones handle a lack of seal better or easier to get a seal with it's just better in that regard. Measurements showing that does not mean the measurement is crappy, it's doing exactly what you want, characterizing the behavior of the headphone.

If the headphone is decoupled, more explanation and information needs to be given, such as photos of the decoupling, or more specifically the circumferential area of decouple. Not only that, a measurement with proper coupling to the test fixture is necessary as a baseline, something lacking from ASR. Otherwise how would anyone know the difference? Amir knows this, yet he's talked a fair number of you into believing that what he's doing is in some way forward thinking. How does this headphone actually measure when used as intended, he doesn't know, does't care, all of the above, from his data we can't tell. In all cases, to be impartial to headphones that have complex shaped ear pads designed to more closely follow head shape, the test fixture must at least attempt to mimic the shape of a human. A flat plate test fixture would only exasperate the decouple from any real life scenario, as is the case with ASR. If his intentions were truly to accurately contrast and compare the affect of head coupling on any given headphone, he would have opted for the test fixture shaped as a head, not a flat plate (photo of both below).

Yes i can agree here that ideally a reviewer should show/explain how they are measuring and explain what's going on. Yes a hats would have been nicer but still would have potential issues transferring to real life. Ideally we would have a bunch of in-ear measurements for this.

In the end, from my perspective as a headphone designer, and end user of such, looking into the crystal ball shows that making measurements that vary wildly from test to test, experiment to experiment, test set-up to test set-up, subjective desires to subjective desires, will only reduce trust in such to a point where they're nothing but a joke, nothing more than an excuse for poor results and lower sound quality. You guys are most definitely being misdirected on this one, and you don't even see the train coming.

Yeah in this whole saga can see a lot of people struggle interpreting measurements and are left following whatever their favorite reviewer or preconceived notions support. Personally i prefer just reading the data myself.

 

[TheThingGoesSkrrr]

Cant believe i was imagining the subbass region all along! After looking at amir's FR , the bass disappeared just like how amir described it "in my tracks with deep bass, you basically would hear nothing." even though 80% of my playlist is EDM.

Shame that I finally settled down with diana v2 after buying/selling so many other headphones!
I should probably return it and buy topping stacks + hd800/hd650 , turned out I like reading graphs more than enjoying the music.

 

[SilverEars]

Does Abyss have a no questions asked return policy? Looking at those measurements, they better have!

 

[elira]

Does Abyss have a no questions asked return policy? Looking at those measurements, they better have!

Apparently they don't, and they advice against buying used, so it's better to audition them before buying.

 

[seamon]

Does Abyss have a no questions asked return policy? Looking at those measurements, they better have!

I believe they have a questions asked no return policy.

 

[SilverEars]

I believe they have a questions asked no return policy.

Well, as long as they refund full amount if I don't like the sound, I would give it a try even if those measurement don't provide much confidence. I've heard and seen plenty of measurements, and I know how they correlate. With such price of headphones, it's such a high risk, I'm not looking to take.

 

[A Jedi]

Depends on where you buy. I bought from a retailer that has a no questions asked 100% refund return policy. You have to pay return shipping.

 

[seamon]

Well, as long as they refund full amount if I don't like the sound, I would give it a try even if those measurement don't provide much confidence. I've heard and seen plenty of measurements, and I know how they correlate. With such price of headphones, it's such a high risk, I'm not looking to take.

I meant they don't let you return them