[A Jedi]

I meant they don't let you return them

Abyss themselves don't - they don't consider themselves a dealer (I don't know why ). Find a dealer that has a return policy you like and buy your stuff from there.

 

[KPzypher]

This thread is sad….

I understand and expect Abyss’ forceful stance as the manufacturer of said product who has the most to lose, albeit they’re doing a terrible job defending their product.

But I just don't understand why some of you are so upset with this whole ordeal??

Just because you bought a pair?? Unless you’re directly tied to the company, that is the stupidest reason to be upset.

If anything, if there's even a slightest chance the manufacturer will be inclined to improve their future products as a result of such scrutiny, you should be thrilled about it. If you’re paying $3K+ for a pair of headphones, they should be able to withstand the toughest scrutiny from every possible angle, and not just by handful of YouTube reviewers that all run monetized channels fueled by sponsorship. And you’re OK with what those guys have to say? There’s something seriously wrong with this picture.

Some of you act like these companies are running a charity. You’re overpaying them for their service in the first place. You’re a customer, not a brand ambassador. Do you not notice the current cost to quality disparity, particularly in the flagship segment? Companies get away with mediocre products with astronomical price tag because products are never tested thoroughly by a third-party impartial to the success of the product. This market is antithesis of customer-centric, yet some of you are blindly exerting your point of view or arguing for reasons hard to fathom.........

We should be appreciative of contrasting views. I for one am grateful that not all reviews are cookie-cutter impressions that sound awfully like company advertisement.

 

[bluestorm1992]

This thread is sad….

I understand and expect Abyss’ forceful stance as the manufacturer of said product who has the most to lose, albeit they’re doing a terrible job defending their product.

But I just don't understand why some of you are so upset with this whole ordeal??

Just because you bought a pair?? Unless you’re directly tied to the company, that is the stupidest reason to be upset.

If anything, if there's even a slightest chance the manufacturer will be inclined to improve their future products as a result of such scrutiny, you should be thrilled about it. If you’re paying $3K+ for a pair of headphones, they should be able to withstand the toughest scrutiny from every possible angle, and not just by handful of YouTube reviewers that all run monetized channels fueled by sponsorship. And you’re OK with what those guys have to say? There’s something seriously wrong with this picture.

Some of you act like these companies are running a charity. You’re overpaying them for their service in the first place. You’re a customer, not a brand ambassador. Do you not notice the current cost to quality disparity, particularly in the flagship segment? Companies get away with mediocre products with astronomical price tag because products are never tested thoroughly by a third-party impartial to the success of the product. This market is antithesis of customer-centric, yet some of you are blindly exerting your point of view or arguing for reasons hard to fathom.........

We should be appreciative of contrasting views. I for one am grateful that not all reviews are cookie-cutter impressions that sound awfully like company advertisement.

This thread is sad.

Some people who have not tried V2 in person or any other Abyss products jump to the thread of Diana. They use measurement results to tell the actual users that they have always been listening wrong: Users are liking a flawed product, overpaying the company, and being like an idiot. Most importantly, Abyss should make changes based on measurement result rather than actual customer feedback.

Why don’t you all go to other threads and do the same thing, and see how users in other threads feel about this kind of behavior. FYI, ASR has the measurement result of Sony’s popular player NW-WM1A. Amir concluded that it performs no better than LG’s quad DAC smart phone. Go post the result to WM1A’s discussion thread here and start a war with Sony fans. I am sure you will enjoy the experience even more there since there are a lot more Sony fan boys.

Edit: I think ASR also has the result of iBasso’s immensely popular product DX160 as well, which measures like trash.

 

[bithloman]

This thread is sad….

I understand and expect Abyss’ forceful stance as the manufacturer of said product who has the most to lose, albeit they’re doing a terrible job defending their product.

But I just don't understand why some of you are so upset with this whole ordeal??

Just because you bought a pair?? Unless you’re directly tied to the company, that is the stupidest reason to be upset.

If anything, if there's even a slightest chance the manufacturer will be inclined to improve their future products as a result of such scrutiny, you should be thrilled about it. If you’re paying $3K+ for a pair of headphones, they should be able to withstand the toughest scrutiny from every possible angle, and not just by handful of YouTube reviewers that all run monetized channels fueled by sponsorship. And you’re OK with what those guys have to say? There’s something seriously wrong with this picture.

Some of you act like these companies are running a charity. You’re overpaying them for their service in the first place. You’re a customer, not a brand ambassador. Do you not notice the current cost to quality disparity, particularly in the flagship segment? Companies get away with mediocre products with astronomical price tag because products are never tested thoroughly by a third-party impartial to the success of the product. This market is antithesis of customer-centric, yet some of you are blindly exerting your point of view or arguing for reasons hard to fathom.........

We should be appreciative of contrasting views. I for one am grateful that not all reviews are cookie-cutter impressions that sound awfully like company advertisement.

who are you to say we are overpaying for a product? Do you get to decide what level of enjoyment people are having with abyss headphones? They are the single highest quality headphone construction I have ever seen in my life. And are also probably the highest rated by customers that I have seen. Just because people on YouTube like it doesn't mean you get to discredit their entire customer base and engineering team in an insulting manner and say that they overpaid for a product not worth its price. I mean that's literally delusional. You make fun of YouTube reviewers for being sponsored while citing measurements from ASR who is literally a marketing arm for topping an SMSL and receives all of their products for free. The fact that you cannot understand why customers are defending end of the line quality headphones they purchased and that they love from a guy who won't even bother to make sure they seal while testing them says a lot. I mean according to you why buy expensive products of any kind? Ferrari should be shut down Bugatti should be shut down. I mean your argument is so solid about overpaying and charity and brand loyalty. I mean after all ASR concluded a speaker had bad imaging and stereo sound while not bothering to even set up the second speaker. I too need someone to tell me what I am allowed to like and how much I'm allowed to pay based on a graph that is inconsistent with every other review of the same product. It only makes sense that way

 

[bluestorm1992]

who are you to say we are overpaying for a product? Do you get to decide what level of enjoyment people are having with abyss headphones? They are the single highest quality headphone construction I have ever seen in my life. And are also probably the highest rated by customers that I have seen. Just because people on YouTube like it doesn't mean you get to discredit their entire customer base and engineering team in an insulting manner and say that they overpaid for a product not worth its price. I mean that's literally delusional. You make fun of YouTube reviewers for being sponsored while citing measurements from ASR who is literally a marketing arm for topping an SMSL and receives all of their products for free. The fact that you cannot understand why customers are defending end of the line quality headphones they purchased and that they love from a guy who won't even bother to make sure they seal while testing them says a lot. I mean according to you why buy expensive products of any kind? Ferrari should be shut down Bugatti should be shut down. I mean your argument is so solid about overpaying and charity and brand loyalty. I mean after all ASR concluded a speaker had bad imaging and stereo sound while not bothering to even set up the second speaker. I too need someone to tell me what I am allowed to like and how much I'm allowed to pay based on a graph that is inconsistent with every other review of the same product. It only makes sense that way

Quit arguing with them, it is useless. This whole thing reminds me of Apple user’s experience all over again. Some non-Apple users make fun of Apple’s latest product, claim that Apple users are stupid and overpaying the company.

 

[TDinCali]

This thread is sad….

I understand and expect Abyss’ forceful stance as the manufacturer of said product who has the most to lose, albeit they’re doing a terrible job defending their product.

But I just don't understand why some of you are so upset with this whole ordeal??

Just because you bought a pair?? Unless you’re directly tied to the company, that is the stupidest reason to be upset.

If anything, if there's even a slightest chance the manufacturer will be inclined to improve their future products as a result of such scrutiny, you should be thrilled about it. If you’re paying $3K+ for a pair of headphones, they should be able to withstand the toughest scrutiny from every possible angle, and not just by handful of YouTube reviewers that all run monetized channels fueled by sponsorship. And you’re OK with what those guys have to say? There’s something seriously wrong with this picture.

Some of you act like these companies are running a charity. You’re overpaying them for their service in the first place. You’re a customer, not a brand ambassador. Do you not notice the current cost to quality disparity, particularly in the flagship segment? Companies get away with mediocre products with astronomical price tag because products are never tested thoroughly by a third-party impartial to the success of the product. This market is antithesis of customer-centric, yet some of you are blindly exerting your point of view or arguing for reasons hard to fathom.........

We should be appreciative of contrasting views. I for one am grateful that not all reviews are cookie-cutter impressions that sound awfully like company advertisement.

Like I posted earlier. I’m not upset at any graph. What does annoy me is people like you and the few others who act like those who purchased Abyss products ate some type of fools taken for a ride. If abyss could take key learnings from certain tests to improve products in the future that would be great by me but if the point of the test is to smear a companies reputation when pretty much every other review has been positive is very suspicious and questionable. Then there other people who just like to stir the pot or believe that once you spend $500 on a pair of headphones that you get 99% of the value and anything more is ridiculous. Well, I disagree with that so when you come here and act all high and mighty expect to get pushback.

 

[jlbrach]

by accident I have come across this reviewer a few times in the past and one thing I noticed is he is a bit of an iconoclast...he seems to trash higher end products and rave about less expensive ones...perfectly OK as long as it is done a relative scale to price but not when done in terms of comparing say the topping A90{which I own} to far better amps which I also own and through his graphs and measurements pronounces the more expensive well reviewed product as flawed etc....I know that the topping amp measures better than amps costing 10 times as much but to be honest it isnt in the same ballpark despite the measurements...I personally do not defend or attack any products...I will however say that I own the abyss 1266 TC and think it is perhaps the very best sounding HP I have ever heard with only the susvara and SR1A worthy of comparison....I couldnt care less what it measures or how other HP's measure all that I care about is how they sound...I also think some reviewers go out of their way to create a controversy like this..I have seen it before and lets be honest has this reviewer ever gotten this much attention or publicity?I do think there are many people who resent products that are regarded as {too expensive}. Personally I do not think that the 1266 is 10 times better than a 500 dollar HP but who cares?...if it is 50% better and one can afford then more power to him...the market dictates prices and some people do not like that

 

[normie610]

I just want to share my impressions on V2. I got it last week and it’s literally my first full size headphone as I’m mainly an IEM person. All I can say is I’m blown away by how good the sound is. Currently my setup is still a portable one, using Hiby R8 as the source and paired with Romi Audio BX-2 Plus. This little amp is actually a beast, it’s class A, very clean and transparent sounding and able to pump out 5.9W @ 32 ohm (at least on paper). I’m currently waiting for my desktop stack to arrive and can’t wait to give it a listen.

In terms of comfort, I find that V2 is very comfortable but do note that I have a relatively small head. I don’t feel any hotspots on my head and it feels light. For the pads (stock V2 pads), I did rotate them 90 degree clockwise and position the drivers slightly to the back while pushing the headband slightly to the front. To me, this gives the best possible bass and overall tonality.

The bass is really good, sub-bass has plenty of rumble and mid-bass hits hard while at the same time it’s very clean and detailed. But the part that I love the most is the midrange. Both female and male vocals convey a lot of emotion, string instruments sound very natural and accurate they give me chills. As for the treble, it has very very good extension. Cymbal crashes are energetic and powerful and yet still feels natural & never harsh. I’m very sensitive to sibilant and lower treble peaks, but I’m so glad that they’re absent from V2. It gives gobs of detail in the upper frequencies without any hint of sibilance. The overall sound of V2 is very pleasant and easy to enjoy and I’m so glad I have it. I was a bit hesitant between V2 and Phi, but since I’m sensitive to treble, I chose V2.

I know that I’m new to the full size headphone world, but at least I can tell whether something sounds good or not. I did audition a couple of headphones a long time ago, I think it was LCD-3, SR007, Odin and a couple of others, but the memory is too distant I can’t make any reference to their sound. What’s obvious is that the V2 makes my IEMs sound inferior, even the one that’s priced higher than V2

As an additional info, I listen mostly to jazz (vocal and instrumental), classical, and a bit of pop. All listening was done on hi-res formats (DSD512, 256, DXD).

 

[manishex]

Amir posted the measurements of the $9 Sony MDR-ZX110 today, which he measures to have lower distortion than the Diana V2 in the mids/treble but more in the bass.

This helps reinforce to me that distortion is not a clear performance indicator, although a marker for potential improvement:

"the response is actually excellent at 94 dBSPL and even 104 dBSPL, beating even state of the art speakers in this regard! Compare this to our recently reviewed, $3000 Abyss Diana V2" " See how much more distortion Diana V2 has in mid frequencies where our hearing is most sensitive? This $9 headphone runs circles around it there."

then with the help of this EQ setting:

Preamp: -8.6 dB Filter 1: ON LS Fc 40 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 1.0 Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain 5.0 dB Q 3.0 Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2500 Hz Gain 5.0 dB Q 2.0 Filter 4: ON PK Fc 5900 Hz Gain 7.0 dB Q 2.0

he concludes:

I must say, I was not prepared for the transformation that these four filters made. The result was an extremely accurate and audiophile headphone! If I performed a blind test, I am pretty sure many people would think this is a high-end headphone. It certainly beats out majority of speakers out there. I was most impressed with detail, clarity and spatial effects

What's that? You don't use EQ? Well, I don't want to hear. Actually, I don't even want to know you! You are wasting away your audiophile life without it. For zero cost you can transform a $9 headphone to a reference quality reproduction engine and you still don't want to go there? If so, I have nothing for you! If you are not into headphones but want to know what the fuss is about for no money, buy this $9 headphone and put in my EQ. If you don't fall off your chair with excitement and get your pants wet with drool, I will come over and cancel out your audiophile credentials myself!

...
So where does that leave me?

I'm happy that Amir can gift us measurements (with questionable disposition) just like innerfidelity used to and I'm happy enough ASR stick to their objective measurements.

But what intrigues me is his subjective reviews, he's had a plethora of amp/dacs and headphones come his way but what are his daily driver? HD650/aeons with rme-adi2/topping a90? Having had tried many of the headphones, amps and dacs he's tried, it astonishes me why he doesn't hear the huge differences many of us hear, is he playing down the abilities of totl gear due to their price?

The statements he made on those Sony's today with the equalisation (which look horrid to me) really make me intrigued on what his daily setup sounds like, and what he truly thought when he heard the Diana V2's, what he thinks reference 'hi-fi' sounds like etc. Perhaps he could invite me to his home one day ^_^

In my experience, I have not heard a clear correlation between good measurements and good sound, some things I enjoy don't measure well (that being a definition of 0.0001% noise vs 0.00001%?) and vice versa. He has a penchant to "save us money?" for example not wasting money on cables, fuses, op-amps, PSUs since they all measure the same/worse, but you have sound demos online clearly highlighting audible differences. I recall him saying just leave the sp-400 on high gain because it measures the same distortion wise but more power, has he tried this himself? I, on the other hand, would have highlighted the advantage but left it up to the user's preference.

In my opinion, it's this shortcoming towards openness/reliability in his subjectivity that biases him in a direction that veers people away from reaching the upper echelons of sound quality, and that is not for everyone, nor do people want to guzzle down tons of money into this hobby. Most would want to get the best bang for the buck at a reasonable price. But what gets me is those people in the community without hearing any of this just assuming, that because we happened to pay more to get something that measures the same/worse are then stupid or have bad ears and are at the same time ecstatic with their $700 "endgame" rig without having heard anything else - confirmation bias the other way around. Too many times I've had to convert people personally by letting them hear for themselves.

In conclusion, I feel that the associated numbers, e.g distortion - performance at higher levels should have more commentary around them, do they have more distortion than average? yes? but how good do they sound, how much of a compromise does that distortion instil? Amir is very powerful and has helped many newbies enter audio bliss at a reasonable price but I also see him clipping their wings within this hobby prematurely, like right now you have people on ASR discussing (in jest?) that the Sony MDR-ZX110 are better than the Diana V2's.

 

[KPzypher]

Like I posted earlier. I’m not upset at any graph. What does annoy me is people like you and the few others who act like those who purchased Abyss products ate some type of fools taken for a ride. If abyss could take key learnings from certain tests to improve products in the future that would be great by me but if the point of the test is to smear a companies reputation when pretty much every other review has been positive is very suspicious and questionable. Then there other people who just like to stir the pot or believe that once you spend $500 on a pair of headphones that you get 99% of the value and anything more is ridiculous. Well, I disagree with that so when you come here and act all high and mighty expect to get pushback.

You're misconstruing my comment, or maybe I have been unclear. If the latter, I apologize.

Either way, I'm not arguing people should never buy flagships. I own several and I will continue to own more in the future. I was pointing out the fact that some people are blindly defending a product they paid a lot of money for. I do think all flagships are overpriced, including the ones I've purchased. That's my opinion. But that's not gonna stop me from buying them. I mean what other choice do I have at the moment if I must chase the absolute best in terms of technicality? I sincerely wish we all had better options. I never implied you guys are fools taken for a ride. If that were true, I would be in that same category having to own several flagships. I was alluding to the fact that some people can't accept the fact that there are opinions other than their own, and it's increasingly harder for those people to accept opposing views, it seems like, the more you pay for a product.

If there's a contrasting view, so what? If you're happy with what you have, why does someone else' poor measurements matter so much? Does it devalue what you have? Does his words carry that much weight?

I'm not suggesting Diana sounds poorly nor am I here to validate or agree with Amir's view or his work. I'm impartial to his results either way. However, he did test them and more thoroughly than most other reviewers out there, did he not? So why is his results so hard to even acknowledge? Just because he talks negative about it? That does not automatically mean he's smearing the reputation of another company. Is he a shill for chi-fi products? He may be, but tell me one YouTube reviewer with a monetized channel that does not accept free or company provided products to review? Do you always have to agree with everyone? I once bought a Sennheiser HD820 knowing well they were poorly received by most people. I loved it. Unfortunately, I had to get rid of it due to fit issue.

Diana V2 was on my short list. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in this thread. When I came on to read about the product, all I saw was people barking at Amir's results like he's a Satan, and Abyss' poor response on the internet.

This 'you've never heard it so shut up' mentality is just childish.

 

[bluestorm1992]

You're misconstruing my comment, or maybe I have been unclear. If the latter, I apologize.

Either way, I'm not arguing people should never buy flagships. I own several and I will continue to own more in the future. I was pointing out the fact that some people are blindly defending a product they paid a lot of money for. I do think all flagships are overpriced, including the ones I've purchased. That's my opinion. But that's not gonna stop me from buying them. I mean what other choice do I have at the moment if I must chase the absolute best in terms of technicality? I sincerely wish we all had better options. I never implied you guys are fools taken for a ride. If that were true, I would be in that same category having to own several flagships. I was alluding to the fact that some people can't accept the fact that there are opinions other than their own, and it's increasingly harder for those people to accept opposing views, it seems like, the more you pay for a product.

If there's a contrasting view, so what? If you're happy with what you have, why does someone else' poor measurements matter so much? Does it devalue what you have? Does his words carry that much weight?

I'm not suggesting Diana sounds poorly nor am I here to validate or agree with Amir's view or his work. I'm impartial to his results either way. However, he did test them and more thoroughly than most other reviewers out there, did he not? So why is his results so hard to even acknowledge? Just because he talks negative about it? That does not automatically mean he's smearing the reputation of another company. Is he a shill for chi-fi products? He may be, but tell me one YouTube reviewer with a monetized channel that does not accept free or company provided products to review? Do you always have to agree with everyone? I once bought a Sennheiser HD820 knowing well they were poorly received by most people. I loved it. Unfortunately, I had to get rid of it due to fit issue.

Diana V2 was on my short list. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in this thread. When I came on to read about the product, all I saw was people barking at Amir's results like he's a Satan, and Abyss' poor response on the internet.

This 'you've never heard it so shut up' mentality is just childish.

Yeah we are childish and stupid. Are you happy now? Have a nice day sir.

 

[KPzypher]

Yeah we are childish and stupid. Are you happy now? Have a nice day sir.

Not sure how your pointless tantrum is helpful to potential buyers?

Have a nice day to you to sir.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Not sure how your pointless tantrum is helpful to potential buyers?

Have a nice day to you to sir.

My suggestion to potential user is simple. You can read about all the measurement and all the reviews, and you are valid to have concerns based on those information. However, never make any solid decision/conclusion ONLY based on measurement and review. Get an audition pair, try it for a few days, then the purchase decision will become clear to you.

Telling a company to change their product based only on measurement instead of actual customer feedback is pointless.

 

[KPzypher]

My suggestion to potential user is simple. You can read about all the measurement and all the reviews, and you are valid to have concerns based on those information. However, never make any solid decision/conclusion ONLY based on measurement and review. Get an audition pair, try it for a few days, then the purchase decision will become clear to you.

Telling a company to change their product based only on measurement instead of actual customer feedback is pointless.

Thanks. That wasn't so hard, was it?

I appreciate your advise. Have a great evening, and I mean it.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Thanks. That wasn't so hard, was it?

I appreciate your advise. Have a great evening, and I mean it.

You know it has been difficult to discuss things in this thread is the past few days. There are people who have no interest in Abyss’s products and come here purely to trash the company and the users. There are people who are interested in the Diana and have valid concerns because of the measurement.

People can distinguish between objective vs. subjective when trying to review a product. I am not going to, and I am not able to, discuss which approach is better. If someone check my replies on the last few day, I think I have been quite consistent: If you are genuinely interested in getting a Diana, trying it out is the best way to decide. For the people who have no interest in Diana and came here only to trash the company or the users, then I really wish them to leave this discussion.