mulder01
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2012
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Well, I didn't intend to do this, but incoming novel...
Yeah I think we were impressed by the same things about the 1266 - soundstage and bass (among other things).
Soundstage on the Diana is not as big as the 1266. No other headphone has the soundstage of the 1266 IMO. I think that particular bit of magic can be attributed to it's headband design rather than anything else - it has a more 'out of your head' sound (or 'speaker-like presentation' as some people say) because the drivers are physically further away from your ears than they normally are on a headphone - (almost) no other headphone allows the drivers to 'hang' an inch from your ears and give you that impression like the sound is coming from further outside of your head, because the sound IS coming from further outside of your head. If I press the drivers of the 1266 against my head with normal headphone clamping pressure, the soundstage shrinks to fully within my head and bass halves. The effect is not as dramatic when I go from 1266 to Diana, but it is bought more back in line with other headphones.
Sound wise, umm... dunno if I should comment in too much detail after only having a few hours listening time with them, but I'll do it anyway...
I reserve the right to take this all back if I change my mind
Consider also that Joe recommended 100hrs burn in for the bass to open up and this pair has about 3hrs on it AFAIK - I thought I was getting a loan of a demo pair, but the pair that arrived was in a full retail package in the shrink wrap so I think it probably actually only has 3 hrs on it...
I have been following the 1266 thread very closely since the announcement of the phi. I read a lot of people say a lot of things and have recently had the chance to hear the phi myself against the original 1266. I'm going to try and sum up that whole section of the 1266 thread. Try. An average of opinions and impressions of the whole community, myself, everyone. Obviously opinions differ, but the... (very general) vibe... the gist of it I would say would goes something like this...
The bass impact seems a bit less apparent because of the detail in the mids being more pronounced than they were before. As a consequence, you don't need to listen to them as loud to get the detail out of them. If you're not turning them up as loud to get the mids detail, then you're not getting as much bass. While the bass is still there if you crank it up, you don't crank it up as loud because of the more even response...
I found the above to be true, but more noticeably the case with Diana v original 1266 than with Phi vs original 1266. You can tell that the Diana is a Phi at heart - which makes a whole lot of sense when you consider that the improvements to the 1266 to make it into a phi, were discovered during the development of the drivers for the Diana.
I would speculate that the difference in sound between the phi and diana is more to do with the overall design of the headphone and it's fitment than it is to do with the driver. I suppose in theory, the Diana driver is smaller and a smaller surface area would mean less ability to punch the air, but the 3mm difference in driver diameter means a total surface area difference of less than 10%... Does that come into play as much as the difference in fitment? I dunno...
Having said that - I may change my mind if the bass opens up with some use. If you are a big believer in burn-in, maybe disregard that whole comment.
I guess the Phi v Diana million dollar question is: do you want no compromises on sound because you're going to spend 5 figures on the rest of your rig anyway? There is that special something about the 1266 that I can't quite put my finger on. Are you okay with a headphone that is a bit heavier, do you need the speaker like presentation, are you happy to spend $2k more to get it despite the unorthodox fitment? Then get a phi. Or do you find the idea of having an unusual fit and looking a bit like frankenstein and not really being able to use them in public off-putting? Are you after something that's still high end, but a bit more traditional looking and fitting? Not willing to stretch the budget to the phi and like the idea of the (trans)portability aspect? Then get a Diana. I would be surprised if someone couldn't love one or the other.
In trying to give some honest and practical information, I feel like I haven't really talked it up a whole lot - as traditional head-fi form dictates - but like I said in my earlier post, every other headphone shootout I've had since buying the 1266 has been over very quickly - I usually have to get on a plane to audition new high end gear so I'll wait until a few things I'm interested in come out before I am willing to make the journey. Even then, I'll usually listen to something for a pretty short amount of time and think "yeah, nice try. What else is there. Keep em coming" sort-of-thing. I haven't had a chance to try the MX4, Utopia or Susvara yet, but tried just about every other flagship (or slightly below) level offering out there and IMO nothing has come close to the 1266, so the fact that I am even considering these is high praise indeed.
Quick shout-out to the travel case. Fits the headphone comfortably and has pockets on the side for your dap - one side has the end of the pocket open - I'm assuming so you can leave the headphones plugged in, without putting extra stress on the headphone jack. It's nice to have the little things thought about. Kinda looks like a nicer version of a toiletries bag, which sounds like a complaint, but there is something to be said for a product being well made, but also a bit understated. If someone who knew nothing about headphones saw these, they wouldn't necessarily think they have to try and steal them. That's a plus in my book if you're intending to travel with them.
Also, re: power requirement, they may not be powered as easily as by a phone or ipod or something, but I think the number of audiophiles spending $3k on a portable headphone or IEM and plugging them into their phone would be minimal. If you're buying this headphone, you probably have a high end player with the guts to power these. Or an external amp. There are plenty of suitable options I'm sure.
They do fit like normal headphones - the headband is a lot more of a head-hugging shape - you can look up and down and they don't move. They fit over my ears comfortably. I think you would have to have pretty big ears before they became an on-ear. About 50mm inside the cup in a sort-of rounded off square shape.
The first foot of cable coming out of the driver is silver coloured and inside of a clear sheath, then they pair up to go into a black sheath for the rest of their length.
Me too - I would be interested for more utopia owners to hear these.
^ yeah the earPADS on the 1266 are rotatable in about 10mm increments so you can adjust where the thickest part of the pad sits. The Diana pads CAN be rotated but because it is a rounded off square, not a circle like the 1266, the increments are 90 degrees apart. I mean, the thickest part of the pad is meant to sit below and behind your ear (I assume) because that part of most people's heads sits in a bit further than the top and sides of your ear. You COULD rotate it so that the thick part is at the top or front but I don't know why you would. I suspect that the idea of the magnetic pad for the Diana is moreso for easy replacement / cleaning / leather conditioning etc, rather than fine tuning of fitment...
Yeah I think we were impressed by the same things about the 1266 - soundstage and bass (among other things).
Soundstage on the Diana is not as big as the 1266. No other headphone has the soundstage of the 1266 IMO. I think that particular bit of magic can be attributed to it's headband design rather than anything else - it has a more 'out of your head' sound (or 'speaker-like presentation' as some people say) because the drivers are physically further away from your ears than they normally are on a headphone - (almost) no other headphone allows the drivers to 'hang' an inch from your ears and give you that impression like the sound is coming from further outside of your head, because the sound IS coming from further outside of your head. If I press the drivers of the 1266 against my head with normal headphone clamping pressure, the soundstage shrinks to fully within my head and bass halves. The effect is not as dramatic when I go from 1266 to Diana, but it is bought more back in line with other headphones.
Sound wise, umm... dunno if I should comment in too much detail after only having a few hours listening time with them, but I'll do it anyway...
I reserve the right to take this all back if I change my mind
Consider also that Joe recommended 100hrs burn in for the bass to open up and this pair has about 3hrs on it AFAIK - I thought I was getting a loan of a demo pair, but the pair that arrived was in a full retail package in the shrink wrap so I think it probably actually only has 3 hrs on it...
I have been following the 1266 thread very closely since the announcement of the phi. I read a lot of people say a lot of things and have recently had the chance to hear the phi myself against the original 1266. I'm going to try and sum up that whole section of the 1266 thread. Try. An average of opinions and impressions of the whole community, myself, everyone. Obviously opinions differ, but the... (very general) vibe... the gist of it I would say would goes something like this...
The bass impact seems a bit less apparent because of the detail in the mids being more pronounced than they were before. As a consequence, you don't need to listen to them as loud to get the detail out of them. If you're not turning them up as loud to get the mids detail, then you're not getting as much bass. While the bass is still there if you crank it up, you don't crank it up as loud because of the more even response...
I found the above to be true, but more noticeably the case with Diana v original 1266 than with Phi vs original 1266. You can tell that the Diana is a Phi at heart - which makes a whole lot of sense when you consider that the improvements to the 1266 to make it into a phi, were discovered during the development of the drivers for the Diana.
I would speculate that the difference in sound between the phi and diana is more to do with the overall design of the headphone and it's fitment than it is to do with the driver. I suppose in theory, the Diana driver is smaller and a smaller surface area would mean less ability to punch the air, but the 3mm difference in driver diameter means a total surface area difference of less than 10%... Does that come into play as much as the difference in fitment? I dunno...
Having said that - I may change my mind if the bass opens up with some use. If you are a big believer in burn-in, maybe disregard that whole comment.
I guess the Phi v Diana million dollar question is: do you want no compromises on sound because you're going to spend 5 figures on the rest of your rig anyway? There is that special something about the 1266 that I can't quite put my finger on. Are you okay with a headphone that is a bit heavier, do you need the speaker like presentation, are you happy to spend $2k more to get it despite the unorthodox fitment? Then get a phi. Or do you find the idea of having an unusual fit and looking a bit like frankenstein and not really being able to use them in public off-putting? Are you after something that's still high end, but a bit more traditional looking and fitting? Not willing to stretch the budget to the phi and like the idea of the (trans)portability aspect? Then get a Diana. I would be surprised if someone couldn't love one or the other.
In trying to give some honest and practical information, I feel like I haven't really talked it up a whole lot - as traditional head-fi form dictates - but like I said in my earlier post, every other headphone shootout I've had since buying the 1266 has been over very quickly - I usually have to get on a plane to audition new high end gear so I'll wait until a few things I'm interested in come out before I am willing to make the journey. Even then, I'll usually listen to something for a pretty short amount of time and think "yeah, nice try. What else is there. Keep em coming" sort-of-thing. I haven't had a chance to try the MX4, Utopia or Susvara yet, but tried just about every other flagship (or slightly below) level offering out there and IMO nothing has come close to the 1266, so the fact that I am even considering these is high praise indeed.
Quick shout-out to the travel case. Fits the headphone comfortably and has pockets on the side for your dap - one side has the end of the pocket open - I'm assuming so you can leave the headphones plugged in, without putting extra stress on the headphone jack. It's nice to have the little things thought about. Kinda looks like a nicer version of a toiletries bag, which sounds like a complaint, but there is something to be said for a product being well made, but also a bit understated. If someone who knew nothing about headphones saw these, they wouldn't necessarily think they have to try and steal them. That's a plus in my book if you're intending to travel with them.
Also, re: power requirement, they may not be powered as easily as by a phone or ipod or something, but I think the number of audiophiles spending $3k on a portable headphone or IEM and plugging them into their phone would be minimal. If you're buying this headphone, you probably have a high end player with the guts to power these. Or an external amp. There are plenty of suitable options I'm sure.
They do fit like normal headphones - the headband is a lot more of a head-hugging shape - you can look up and down and they don't move. They fit over my ears comfortably. I think you would have to have pretty big ears before they became an on-ear. About 50mm inside the cup in a sort-of rounded off square shape.
The first foot of cable coming out of the driver is silver coloured and inside of a clear sheath, then they pair up to go into a black sheath for the rest of their length.
Me too - I would be interested for more utopia owners to hear these.
^ yeah the earPADS on the 1266 are rotatable in about 10mm increments so you can adjust where the thickest part of the pad sits. The Diana pads CAN be rotated but because it is a rounded off square, not a circle like the 1266, the increments are 90 degrees apart. I mean, the thickest part of the pad is meant to sit below and behind your ear (I assume) because that part of most people's heads sits in a bit further than the top and sides of your ear. You COULD rotate it so that the thick part is at the top or front but I don't know why you would. I suspect that the idea of the magnetic pad for the Diana is moreso for easy replacement / cleaning / leather conditioning etc, rather than fine tuning of fitment...
