[driftingbunnies]

@WaveTheory
You're running what we would consider obsolete gear.

The Berkley S2 DAC is an old design, DAC's have come a long way since circa 2012. This is most likely the largest flaw in your system, the source, no getting around it.

The V281 amp was not exactly designed with low efficiency planars in mind. It's a current limited high voltage amp by design, that was their schtick back in 2014. The power supply is all voltage, not current, when it runs out of current, it runs out hard. It's why when you go down in impedance, the amp outputs less power. It's a wimpy power supply as current goes. It's definitely not an amp you see ABYSS AB1266 Phi TC or Diana TC owners using.

Here in lies the issue. If you're trying to review headphones at this level, experience aside, you must have proper ancillary gear for the job. Otherwise, all that video bandwidth is nothing but useless blabber describing the sound of an incompetent system being called out by the headphone. This, and you've never really explored the headphone's capabilities beyond another. There's no learning curve here.

On another note, had you done some homework and spoken to anyone in the community prior to publishing your dilemma with negative reviews, someone if not I would have steered you straight. There are plenty of ABYSS owners here, threads devoted to each model to easily see what gear people are currently using. These are targets you should aim for, and if that fails you, companies such as ours have email, social media, and a telephone number where you can communicate with extremely knowledgeable and passionate people.
Try it sometime.

While I agree that the equipment used to judge the DTC might not synergize and properly provide the current that DTC needs, there are better ways to go about it than claiming that someone's gear is "obsolete" or "incompetent". Does a DAC suddenly sound worse when a new DAC is released? Are you saying that basically all the Diana's before Diana TC is "obsolete" now?

The beauty of everyone's journey in audio is that it can be taken in many different ways. The Berkeley DAC/V281 is a very competent system for a dynamic headphone. It just doesn't happen to fit Abyss's requirement of what they would consider a worthy enough system to review their headphones. While I understand what you are trying to get at, I think the best course of action would've been to let the "plenty of Abyss owners" help and lead the person into the right direction. Any response from Abyss is and will be viewed negatively when it comes to telling someone how a headphone should be reviewed.

 

[Tachyon88]

^ thanks for posting this considered response to yet another belittling post from this manufacturer and site sponsor who really should know better by now. it also gave me pause before posting this in reply:



well almost

This is Just typical ABYSSmal PR and customer service. When he is not shooting e-mails to customers in this same obnoxious condescending tone he does it on the form for all to see. Total Consciousness (TC) or total lack of awareness ?

 

[eskamobob1]

Methodology needs to be discussed as to how it affects subjective opinions.

I've got all the same complaints on sagra/Dave into wa33/gsx-mini. Wanna come at me too?

 

[driftingbunnies]

I've got all the same complaints on sagra/Dave into wa33/gsx-mini. Wanna come at me too?

Was it a triple blind test? Did you make sure to blindfold the gear?

 

[eskamobob1]

Was it a triple blind test? Did you make sure to blindfold the gear?

The worst part is that I genuinely like the cans. But like any and all can they have issues. In good please abyss style the tonality is all sorts of ****ed. I don't care but if you are someone that does it will be a big issue for you. Ultimately I like abyss cans but having a seething hatred for the company at this point. I have no idea how this kind of behavior is even vaguely accepted when all the complaints levied are extremely well documented issues. This is just like abyss refusing to recognize their cans fit like crap. Too much holier art though attitude to be able to pull their heads out of their own bumm and put on quite lutteraly any singular other HP over like $500 to see why cup swivel is important if you don't want someone bending the headband

 

[NoTimeFor]

@WaveTheory
You're running what we would consider obsolete gear.

The Berkley S2 DAC is an old design, DAC's have come a long way since circa 2012. This is most likely the largest flaw in your system, the source, no getting around it.

The V281 amp was not exactly designed with low efficiency planars in mind. It's a current limited high voltage amp by design, that was their schtick back in 2014. The power supply is all voltage, not current, when it runs out of current, it runs out hard. It's why when you go down in impedance, the amp outputs less power. It's a wimpy power supply as current goes. It's definitely not an amp you see ABYSS AB1266 Phi TC or Diana TC owners using.

Here in lies the issue. If you're trying to review headphones at this level, experience aside, you must have proper ancillary gear for the job. Otherwise, all that video bandwidth is nothing but useless blabber describing the sound of an incompetent system being called out by the headphone. This, and you've never really explored the headphone's capabilities beyond another. There's no learning curve here.

On another note, had you done some homework and spoken to anyone in the community prior to publishing your dilemma with negative reviews, someone if not I would have steered you straight. There are plenty of ABYSS owners here, threads devoted to each model to easily see what gear people are currently using. These are targets you should aim for, and if that fails you, companies such as ours have email, social media, and a telephone number where you can communicate with extremely knowledgeable and passionate people.
Try it sometime.

Diana Phi owner here. Even though I'm a fan with Abyss sounds, post like this does not sit well with me. Just because a reviewer gave unfavourable review on your product, you do not need to come here and insult his ancillary gear. Many people have a nice stuff but not everyone has an expensive current TOTL electronics. I've read plenty of pro-reviewers who use older gear for review. He can review a product how ever he wishes to with whatever stuff that he has. He does not need to check with you and get your blessing, OK?

 

[eskamobob1]

Diana Phi owner here. Even though I'm a fan with Abyss sounds, post like this does not sit well with me. Just because a reviewer gave unfavourable review on your product, you do not need to come here and insult his ancillary gear. Many people have a nice stuff but not everyone has an expensive current TOTL electronics. I've read plenty of pro-reviewers who use older gear for review. He can review a product how ever he wishes to with whatever stuff that he has. He does not need to check with you and get your blessing, OK?

Rofl. How are they gunna do that when they can't even get both sides of the cable the right length on their multi thousand dollar headphones?

 

[NoTimeFor]

Rofl. How are they gunna do that when they can't even get both sides of the cable the right length on their multi thousand dollar headphones?

Have you seen Abyss YouTube video on making new Diana ear pads? Making it sound like producing ear pads are like sending a rocket to the moon. Give it to Denoki, they will make better one under $100

 

[Tachyon88]

Have you seen Abyss YouTube video on making new Diana ear pads? Making it sound like producing ear pads are like sending a rocket to the moon. Give it to Denoki, they will make better one under $100

Oh man I wouldn't get on that rocket ! Ever since they moved their pad production to in house they have looked like wrinkled leather pants.

 

[qboogie]

I do find it interesting that @WaveTheory considers the 1266 mid forward. I guess we all hear differently after all.

Thanks for taking the time to review all this gear though

 

[Slim1970]

Actually, I agree with your opinion of GSX MK2, and that'e where the problem exist for me. Diana is a bit forward in midrange, with snappy impact, that lead to neutral-aggressive character. Combine with hard hitting attack and aggressive character of GSX Mk2, they become too much of good things. Understandable for other people to like the combo, but my playlist mostly contain of vocal jazz, pop, acoustic and new age songs that may not suit that character.

Good observation, I can easily see that being case. Both products offer a very exciting sound. Combine them together and it can be an overload of the senses.

 

[eskamobob1]

I do find it interesting that @WaveTheory considers the 1266 mid forward. I guess we all hear differently after all.

Thanks for taking the time to review all this gear though

This I think is a terminology thing. If I had to guess what he is calling "mid forard" is what lots of people call "shout" a big spike at 5-6k seems present in all other abyss cans and sounds present in tc as well to my ears. It also sounds like there is a rise at like 1k which also adds some harshness. On the 1266 tc this peak is super pronounced (with like a tertiary peak in the middle of the mids) leading them to just be pretty ducked sounding tbh

 

[ufospls2]

This is a bit uncalled for, and part of the reason why Abyss has a bit of a PR issue IMO. I know you guys are passionate about your products and have a considerable cult following, but at the end of the day it's a subjective hobby and not everything will be for everyone. Especially if your gear is this finnicky about the chain (now the amp's not enough, we need specific dacs for Abyss as well? ).
A reviewer's job is to post his impressions, whether or not those might upset people.
@WaveTheory is using the same (20k) dac he used to review all flagships and while he's new at this, he's quickly becoming one of my favorite reviewers, because he tells it as it is. He also dismissed the Meze Elite and much preferred the LCD-5.
I got both of them for a home audition and bought the Elite in a heartbeat, even though I did hear that "veil" he was talking about, but the upgrade cable fixed it for me. Nonetheless, he was the only reviewer to point it out when people were calling me crazy for saying they sound veiled. So I'm pretty sure his gear is revealing enough to properly evaluate headphones.
I know you guys like to recommend your partners gear (XI Audio, Woo, Mytek) and more recently the Bartok, but i doubt the Sagra and Mytek dacs are even close to the Berkley in any metrics.
Most US companies want to be Apple, but the ones that actually do research, don't just pump out electronics like new Iphones. Dac technology really doesn't move that fast for it to be obsolete. I bet most Abyss users have dacs with off the shelf chips, as people mostly care about the amp.
A lot of people who's opinions I respect recommend Abyss, but I feel like posts like this affect your credibility. They are valid points to make (I don't think they hold water though) , but the optics are different from your position. It comes across very "David vs Goliath".

As far as I know @WaveTheory uses an Alpha DAC series 2, not the Reference 2.

With that being said, it was, and still is, a good DAC IMO.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/berkeley-audio-alpha-dac-series-2-tas-1

I'm curious what Joshua Valour used in his Diana TC review/usage? Was it his Topping D90/A90 stack? The only thing that Topping stack would have in terms of quality over a V281/Berkeley Alpha 2 is current output and SINAD measurements most likely. Everything else would be inferior, including sound quality (imho etc..)

Also, although the V281 may lack current output in comparison to some more modern amps, it still has enough power (and current I would argue) for the 1266, and many users of the 1266 have found it to be a great pairing (search v281 in the 1266 thread.) The 1266 requires more power and current than the Diana TC, so that makes me curious.

Are there better matches? Of course, it seems there is always a better match it just depends on where you end up being comfortable. It also takes time to find what you like in terms of sonic preference.

Is Joshua Valour's set up also considered obsolete? Where does one draw the line? What are the determining factors? Age? Sound quality?

EDIT: I should note, I also don't agree with the idea that just because a reviewer gives a negative review their opinion is automatically worth more, or that they are more trustworthy. After all, it's just one mans opinion in a subjective hobby.

 

[sparkylarky]

Hello, everyone. Thanks for watching my Diana TC review and having a thoughtful conversation afterward. Since some aren't clear, here is the primary signal chain I used for DTC:

Windows 10 PC w/ Audirvana > Shunyata Venom USB cable > Singxer SU-2 DDC > WBC AES cable > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 DAC > WBC XLR cables > Violectric HPA-V281.

I used this same chain to do a fair amount of testing when I had the 1266 in house and the issues I noticed with the DTC's bass weren’t on the radar screen with 1266 powered by V281 (deep, punchy, quick, tuneful, textured, all the good adjectives). The V281 may not be the most powerful amp out there, but saying it's underpowered is a bit of stretch. The V281 has also driven lots of other hard-to-drive cans like Susvara, HE6se V2, Stealth and shown no signs of injecting tonal weirdness or lacking the oomph to bring out bass extension. When I had the 1266, I also had a RAAL HSA-1b on loan, which is rated for higher power than V281, and the 1266 was more mid-forward on the RAAL than the Vio. If you watch my other reviews, you'll see the V281 actually relaxes the mids for pretty much every headphone you throw at it. If you read my Diana Phi review from Spring 2021 (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-diana.22827/reviews), you’ll also see that the tonality of the Phi was too aggressively mid-forward for me on the HeadAmp GS-X Mini, which is on Abyss’s list of recommended amps. I had the Vio HPA-V200 at the time and remember the V200 relaxing the Diana Phi’s mids as well, but not to point where I would personally spend $4K on it. If anything, evidence suggests the Vio signature tames the Abyss mids.

To my ear the DTC was just way out ahead of the already mid-forward 1266 and Diana Phi. I 100% agree that signal chains matter and that synergy is a real thing. I’ll also agree the V281 and the DTC may not be the best sonic match for each other. However, there is a big gap between “not best sonic match” and “chain is too flawed to give fair review”.

Either way, I’m glad you all enjoy your Abyss headphones. They aren’t for me, but there are some strengths (BASS from 1266 and Phi, being a big strength) that make them worthwhile for a good number of listeners. I wish they had an option that was as powerful and amazing in the bass as 1266 but more natural and tonally balanced through the mids. I will be the first to say they get that right if/when they do get that right.

TBH, I hate doing negative reviews. They are not fun. I don’t like recommending against products from small companies as IMO the more small audio companies we have, the richer our hobby is. That said, I dislike even more the prospect of people spending $4.5K on something that probably shouldn’t be worth that…again…that just being my opinion.

Cheers all, and enjoy the music.

Just my humble add-ons to this:
The Diana TC opened up a a lot after many, many days of burn-in, an estimated 150 hours but I did not keep track so this is a rough estimate.
Also, after upgrading my amp to the Ferrum Oor/Hypsos stack I really love them, they require a lot of good amplification & power.
I have to use high gain (whilst that would probably make most dynamic driver HPs explode) and then i hover between 10 and 3 o'clock depending on track.
I plugged them straight into my iBasso DX300 MAX and they still sounded somewhat OK but definitely not great.

 

[paradoxper]

As far as I know @WaveTheory uses an Alpha DAC series 2, not the Reference 2.

With that being said, it was, and still is, a good DAC IMO.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/berkeley-audio-alpha-dac-series-2-tas-1

I'm curious what Joshua Valour used in his Diana TC review/usage? Was it his Topping D90/A90 stack? The only thing that Topping stack would have in terms of quality over a V281/Berkeley Alpha 2 is current output and SINAD measurements most likely. Everything else would be inferior, including sound quality (imho etc..)

Also, although the V281 may lack current output in comparison to some more modern amps, it still has enough power (and current I would argue) for the 1266, and many users of the 1266 have found it to be a great pairing (search v281 in the 1266 thread.) The 1266 requires more power and current than the Diana TC, so that makes me curious.

Is Joshua Valour's set up also considered obsolete? Where does one draw the line? What are the determining factors? Age? Sound quality?

Neither of their gear is actually good enough. One is a nobody reviewer, the other is a FOTM. One is positive, the other negative.

It shouldn't matter either way.