[seamon]

i disagree based on my own experience, and i note that you added padding to the diana's headband. why did you make that modification?

Because they were uncomfortable without it. My comparison is after the mod so probably skewers my opinion.

Anyhow, I wouldn't call any headphone that approaches the 500g mark comfortable tbh. They will be for a short period of time but eventually the weight wears you in.

 

[up late]

I feel He-1 is uber high end. It is truly the only no compromise thing out there.

Z1R and TH900 are not heavy but have very polarizing sound signatures. Personally think both are trash

Diana is more comfortable than Empyrean and Utopia for me due to the weight, shape and fitment.

the he1 is "summit fi" and there's at least one thread dedicated to it in this forum.

i can't think of many headphones that don't polarise opinion. while you regard the z1r and th900 as "trash", clearly not everyone shares your opinion, including me.

headphone comfort is subjective - like most aspects of this hobby.

 

[seamon]

the he1 is "summit fi" and there's at least one thread dedicated to it in this forum.

i can't think of many headphones that don't polarise opinion. while you regard the z1r and th900 as "trash", clearly not everyone shares your opinion, including me.

headphone comfort is subjective - like most aspects of this hobby.

He-1 don't polarize people, are comfortable and pretty much has a no compromise quality to them, that's why I felt they belong in a different category but if you want to shoehorn them into the same category as all these uncomfortable and polarizing summit fi headphones then sure.

Utopia, Susvara, HD800S and LCD 4(to some extent) don't polarize as many people as those.

Agreed. Therefore it's unrealistic to expect high end headphones to fit all people without fitment and comfort issues. That brings me to my original point - headphones manufacturers invest in sound more than fitment for 100% of Earth's population for good reason.

 

[up late]

Because they were uncomfortable without it. My comparison is after the mod so probably skewers my opinion.

Anyhow, I wouldn't call any headphone that approaches the 500g mark comfortable tbh. They will be for a short period of time but eventually the weight wears you in.

i think that's a significant qualification given that you've posted more than once that the diana is one of the most comfortable high-end headphones.

while i'd prefer that all headphones weighed no more than the rs1, light weight doesn't necessarily guarantee a comfortable fit. the stellia weighs in at more than 400 grams and is one of the most comfortable headphones that i've worn. while the utopia does approach 500 grams, i can wear it for hours without fatigue.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

That's just your opinion though.
If you want to be competitive in the high end headphone market, you do sound first, all else is second. If the sound is not right, you are not selling any high end headphones no matter how comfortable your headphones are.
You have to realize that these companies are not selling a lot of headphones compared to some mass produced $100 gaming headsets.

Thus, their revenues are not high enough to dedicate a big budget to both comfort and sound. They prefer to just put everything in sound and hope the headphones are decently comfortable for a majority of people. Moreover, I have heard rumors that Abyss margins are pretty slim as their magnet structure costs a lot to make.

Honestly, that's what I'd like to see - if a headphone sounds superb, I might find ways to make the fit comfortable but if it sounds like a$$ then I won't get it no matter how comfortable they are.

You might feel entitled to comfort when paying $4000 but understand that you are paying for sound first, that's the golden rule.

It's the same way high end motherboards don't have the best BIOS features because motherboard manufacturers don't move a lot of units and instead focus on $100-$200 boards which get regular updates etc because of sheer volume they sell those at.


That said, Diana in my opinion is one of the most comfortable high end headphones for my head. Just go and look at Audeze headphones, ZMF headphones, Raal SR1a etc, none of these are comfortable and yet these are most sold high end headphones there are.

The ZMF headband design is one of the most comfortable headphone systems ever made. You even mentioning them in the same sentence as Audeze or Abyss is ridiculous.

 

[seamon]

The ZMF headband design is one of the most comfortable headphone systems ever made. You even mentioning them in the same sentence as Audeze or Abyss is ridiculous.

Not the headband, the overall shape and fitment is a bit uncomfortable for me but yeah overall ZMF are far away from Audezes. Diana is better fit imo

while i'd prefer that all headphones weighed no more than the rs1, light weight doesn't necessarily guarantee a comfortable fit. the stellia weighs in at more than 400 grams and is one of the most comfortable headphones that i've worn. while the utopia does approach 500 grams, i can wear it for hours without fatigue.

Can't comment much on Stellia but 400g is acceptable. I can also wear the Diana for hours without fatigue.

 

[up late]

He-1 don't polarize people, are comfortable and pretty much has a no compromise quality to them, that's why I felt they belong in a different category but if you want to shoehorn them into the same category as all these uncomfortable and polarizing summit fi headphones then sure.

Utopia, Susvara, HD800S and LCD 4(to some extent) don't polarize as many people as those.

Agreed. Therefore it's unrealistic to expect high end headphones to fit all people without fitment and comfort issues. That brings me to my original point - headphones manufacturers invest in sound more than fitment for 100% of Earth's population for good reason.

actually, the he1 thread that i followed here when it was active contained a plethora of conflicting opinions about its price performance/ratio and the quality of its onboard dac. that said, most of the opinions were from people who hadn't experienced it.

"Utopia, Susvara, HD800S and LCD 4(to some extent) don't polarize as many people as those" - well "that's just your (anecdotal) opinion".

of course it would be unrealistic to expect all high-end headphones to be equally comfortable for everyone, just as it would be unrealistic to expect the sound of all high-end headphones to appeal equally to everyone. which brings me to my original point - headphones are made to be worn as well as heard.

Not the headband, the overall shape and fitment is a bit uncomfortable for me but yeah overall ZMF are far away from Audezes. Diana is better fit imo


Can't comment much on Stellia but 400g is acceptable. I can also wear the Diana for hours without fatigue.

but could you wear the diana for hours without fatigue before you added padding to the stock headband? as i posted earlier, light weight doesn't necessarily guarantee a comfortable fit ime. most grado headphones are lightweight, but i couldn't call them comfortable.

 

[Rob49]

That's just your opinion though.
If you want to be competitive in the high end headphone market, you do sound first, all else is second. If the sound is not right, you are not selling any high end headphones no matter how comfortable your headphones are.
You have to realize that these companies are not selling a lot of headphones compared to some mass produced $100 gaming headsets.

Thus, their revenues are not high enough to dedicate a big budget to both comfort and sound. They prefer to just put everything in sound and hope the headphones are decently comfortable for a majority of people. Moreover, I have heard rumors that Abyss margins are pretty slim as their magnet structure costs a lot to make.

Honestly, that's what I'd like to see - if a headphone sounds superb, I might find ways to make the fit comfortable but if it sounds like a$$ then I won't get it no matter how comfortable they are.

You might feel entitled to comfort when paying $4000 but understand that you are paying for sound first, that's the golden rule.

It's the same way high end motherboards don't have the best BIOS features because motherboard manufacturers don't move a lot of units and instead focus on $100-$200 boards which get regular updates etc because of sheer volume they sell those at.


That said, Diana in my opinion is one of the most comfortable high end headphones for my head. Just go and look at Audeze headphones, ZMF headphones, Raal SR1a etc, none of these are comfortable and yet these are most sold high end headphones there are.

....and it's also MY opinion, that you're coming across as a little patronising....i can also guess that i've been on this Earth a little longer than you too....and the word "respect" comes to mind...

 

[seamon]

"Utopia, Susvara, HD800S and LCD 4(to some extent) don't polarize as many people as those" - well "that's just your (anecdotal) opinion".

of course it would be unrealistic to expect all high-end headphones to be equally comfortable for everyone, just as it would be unrealistic to expect the sound of all high-end headphones to appeal equally to everyone. which brings me to my original point - headphones are made to be worn as well as heard

As you said, aren't we all just sharing opinions and in my experience less people have found these headphones to be polarizing. You either like TH900/Z1R or hate them. Most people like the headphones I mentioned or are ambivalent towards them.

Of course headphones are made to worn, how else are you supposed to listen to them? I still prefer a headphone that sounds great but has less comfort than one that has more comfort but sounds bad. (That said, if there exists a solution that is 90% there on the sound end and is significantly more comfortable, I'll choose that, best of both worlds tbh) I was trying to convey headphone manufacturers focus more on sound and they should. Comfort is important but they are clearly investing in sound more.

but could you wear the diana for hours without fatigue before you added padding to the stock headband?

The answer is yes actually but the headband just makes it better.

....and it's also MY opinion, that you're coming across as a little patronising....i can also guess that i've been on this Earth a little longer than you too....and the word "respect" comes to mind...

I was trying to explain the state of industry. I don't respect you for your age if that's what you are suggesting.

 

[Rob49]

I was trying to explain the state of industry. I don't respect you for your age if that's what you are suggesting.

With a patronising tone, in response to my opinion. There's many many, experienced people on here that don't need an explanation of the state of the industry.....it's about "respect" & "disrespect" with how people put across their views.

 

[seamon]

With a patronising tone, in response to my opinion. There's many many, experienced people on here that don't need an explanation of the state of the industry.....it's about "respect" & "disrespect" with how people put across their views.

Cool then ignore and move on. If you are too butt-hurt over an internet forum post then idk

 

[up late]

As you said, aren't we all just sharing opinions and in my experience less people have found these headphones to be polarizing. You either like TH900/Z1R or hate them. Most people like the headphones I mentioned or are ambivalent towards them.

Of course headphones are made to worn, how else are you supposed to listen to them? I still prefer a headphone that sounds great but has less comfort than one that has more comfort but sounds bad. (That said, if there exists a solution that is 90% there on the sound end and is significantly more comfortable, I'll choose that, best of both worlds tbh) I was trying to convey headphone manufacturers focus more on sound and they should. Comfort is important but they are clearly investing in sound more.


The answer is yes actually but the headband just makes it better.


I was trying to explain the state of industry. I don't respect you for your age if that's what you are suggesting.

thanks for qualifying your original sweeping assertion, but you've followed up with two more.

that's right, headphones are made to be worn and heard - unlike loudspeakers. i wouldn't presume to know how much headphone manufacturers prioritise sound over the wearer's comfort in their r&d budgets or vice versa, but i do know that if i find a headphone uncomfortable then that is a deal breaker for me, regardless of how impressed i am by the sound.

edit: you admitted in an earlier post that the diana was uncomfortable without the modification that you made to the headband (you added padding to it). yet you also say that you could wear the diana for hours without fatigue before making that modification. i find it implausible that you could wear an uncomfortable headphone for hours without experiencing fatigue of some kind.

 

[seamon]

thanks for qualifying your original sweeping assertion, but you've followed up with two more.

that's right, headphones are made to be worn and heard - unlike loudspeakers. i wouldn't presume to know how much headphone manufacturers prioritise sound over the wearer's comfort in their r&d budgets or vice versa, but i do know that if i find a headphone uncomfortable then that is a deal breaker for me, regardless of how impressed i am by the sound.

You can make a general guess by looking at all the headphones all the manufacturers are making - surely LCD 4, SR1a and Abyss 1266 didn't prioritize comfort over sound.

I go for sound first and then decide if the discomfort is worth the sound quality.

 

[seamon]

My Superconductors have arrived

 

[up late]

You can make a general guess by looking at all the headphones all the manufacturers are making - surely LCD 4, SR1a and Abyss 1266 didn't prioritize comfort over sound.

I go for sound first and then decide if the discomfort is worth the sound quality.

well that's three examples but in abyss's defence, it appears from their posts that they sincerely believe their headphones are comfortable for most users. and i've already listed a number of high-end headphones off the top of my head that have successfully combined quality sound with comfort ime.

i'm well aware of what you prioritise in high-end headphones, which is fine. my priorities are ordered differently, however.