[RushNerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif And for that deep sub hit, try 'Sk8r Boi' by Avril Lavigne...just before she sings the first words there's this ultra-low sub hit.

Yikes.

 

[pataburd]

odigg,
Thanks for the comparisons/impressions. I may hold out with the D5000 a bit more. They sound excellent with the Bada PH-12 and I'm not really "wanting" for anything at this point with them, anyway. With a decent amp, I think the bass gets better controlled and articulated, and perhaps less pudgy. : )

Yes, the D2000 are pleasantly more forward than the D5000; that's what I liked so much about them (the D2000), although they trail the D5000 in terms of bass definition/pitch as well as tonal and timbral fullness.
PAB

 

[lutwey]

can you elaborate on how forward the d2000s are. and there major difference with the d5000 and d7000.

thanks odigg

 

[Gu Sensei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting post for someone considering the 5000/7000 as my next set. Does anyone who listens to more bass-heavy music have an opinion (bass would be the main reason I'd consider the 5000/7000 over the 650's I have now)?

If you are really interested in the bass output, I would steer clear of the D5000s. I found them to be great but just not well-suited for music with fuller faster bass lines. The bass regularly sounded out of control, bloated, too soft, and too slow. It was a deal-breaker and I sold them off. I think the biggest difference in the D5000s and D7000s lies there, and that is the one aspect to which I pay most attention and is extremely important for most of the music I listen to. The bass of the D5000s was a liability to me whereas it is one of the best I have heard with the D7000s (the L3000’s being the other).

I think the bass output is great on the HD650s but I still prefer what the D7000s have over it. I think you may be happy in the bass department with either but the differences in sound signatures in other areas will dictate which you prefer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've never heard the D7000 vocals sound distant in the sense that people talk about on this board. However, such an evaluation depends a lot on what your reference can is. If you are comparing the D7000 to the AD2000 then yes, the D7000 vocals will sound distant with a slightly hollow sound. !

Yeah, times two on that. If you really prefer forward sounding vocals that are the most prominent part of the sound signature, than be cautious with the Denons. Other manufacturers line-ups may be preferable. Having said that, I do not find the D7000 midrange to be recessed. It is in quite a nice place for me, just not as prominent as the bass. I can certainly enjoy the prominence of vocals for some music with headphones with a more forward sound like many AT cans, but it is just not that big of an issue for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have D5000s and love them. But I've been trying to figure out whether I should sell and "upgrade" to the D7000s. You helped me answer the question. The D5000s seem to be the sweet spot in the Denon line.

If you are planning on picking up one of the Denons for the first time and have the budget, then I say the D7000s are really the best way to go, particularly if you are really into bass. The others are great, but I would put the D7000s in an elite class. Besides the phenomenal bass, the raised level of refinement is a significant difference for me.

If you already have one of the other Denons or one of the modded varieties and are completely satisfied with them, perhaps the step up will be less significant. That really is hard to say and it will really depend on the person I imagine. If you are loving one of the others but want to see if you can take the sound signature to a higher level, then I think it would be worthwhile to check them out. At least, if you are amp shopping for the D2000s/D5000s in order to get the most out of them, then I would say forget that and go right for the D7000s. I just do not think an amp/source/cable upgrade will raise the level of control and refinement to that the D7000s. Based on my experience with some modded recabled D2000s, I am highly skeptical as to whether modding the lower models will do any of that either.

I really liked the HD650s, but the difference between stock through a decent amp and balanced recabled through an Apache were minimal and not worth it to me. For others, that giant extra cost makes a huge difference and is money well-spent. I am not surprised that Odigg and others will feel the differences between the D7000s and lower numbered models to be less significant than I do. But for me, it is very significant. I can list half a dozen headphones at least that I prefer over the D5000s but none that I like better than the D7000s. As they say, YMMV.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gu Sensei /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you are really interested in the bass output, I would steer clear of the D5000s. I found them to be great but just not well-suited for music with fuller faster bass lines. The bass regularly sounded out of control, bloated, too soft, and too slow. It was a deal-breaker and I sold them off. I think the biggest difference in the D5000s and D7000s lies there, and that is the one aspect to which I pay most attention and is extremely important for most of the music I listen to. The bass of the D5000s was a liability to me whereas it is one of the best I have heard with the D7000s (the L3000’s being the other). I think the bass output is great on the HD650s but I still prefer what the D7000s have over it. I think you may be happy in the bass department with either but the differences in sound signatures in other areas will dictate which you prefer. Yeah, times two on that. If you really prefer forward sounding vocals that are the most prominent part of the sound signature, than be cautious with the Denons. Other manufacturers line-ups may be preferable. Having said that, I do not find the D7000 midrange to be recessed. It is in quite a nice place for me, just not as prominent as the bass. I can certainly enjoy the prominence of vocals for some music with headphones with a more forward sound like many AT cans, but it is just not that big of an issue for me. If you are planning on picking up one of the Denons for the first time and have the budget, then I say the D7000s are really the best way to go, particularly if you are really into bass. The others are great, but I would put the D7000s in an elite class. Besides the phenomenal bass, the raised level of refinement is a significant difference for me. If you already have one of the other Denons or one of the modded varieties and are completely satisfied with them, perhaps the step up will be less significant. That really is hard to say and it will really depend on the person I imagine. If you are loving one of the others but want to see if you can take the sound signature to a higher level, then I think it would be worthwhile to check them out. At least, if you are amp shopping for the D2000s/D5000s in order to get the most out of them, then I would say forget that and go right for the D7000s. I just do not think an amp/source/cable upgrade will raise the level of control and refinement to that the D7000s. Based on my experience with some modded recabled D2000s, I am highly skeptical as to whether modding the lower models will do any of that either. I really liked the HD650s, but the difference between stock through a decent amp and balanced recabled through an Apache were minimal and not worth it to me. For others, that giant extra cost makes a huge difference and is money well-spent. I am not surprised that Odigg and others will feel the differences between the D7000s and lower numbered models to be less significant than I do. But for me, it is very significant. I can list half a dozen headphones at least that I prefer over the D5000s but none that I like better than the D7000s. As they say, YMMV.

I've talked to a few people about the D5000 vs D7000. You of course own the D7000 and I own the D5000. The NORMAL mode here(at Head-Fi) is to righteously defend what you bought and defend it, sometimes counter to all rationality. Your post runs counter to others I have spoken to, and counter to the OP here. It looks to me that the biggest difference between the 5000 and the 7000 is the finish on the cups. This is a common marketing practice for Headphone companies as well. For instance, the Beyer 770/880/990 all have the same drivers. There are some tweaks to the enclosures. Grados also share the same drivers thru a lot of their models.

In the end I'm glad you're happy with the 7000s, they are "better looking" than the 5000s, I'll give you that. I just can't see me "upgrading" for looks.

.

 

[scytheavatar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've talked to a few people about the D5000 vs D7000. You of course own the D7000 and I own the D5000. The NORMAL mode here(at Head-Fi) is to righteously defend what you bought and defend it, sometimes counter to all rationality. Your post runs counter to others I have spoken to, and counter to the OP here. It looks to me that the biggest difference between the 5000 and the 7000 is the finish on the cups. This is a common marketing practice for Headphone companies as well. For instance, the Beyer 770/880/990 all have the same drivers. There are some tweaks to the enclosures. Grados also share the same drivers thru a lot of their models. In the end I'm glad you're happy with the 7000s, they are "better looking" than the 5000s, I'll give you that. I just can't see me "upgrading" for looks. .

I can testify that the D7000 is a significant upgrade from the D5000 sonic wise. In fact, I will go as far as to argue that the D5000 is an downgrade from the D2000 sonic wise. You accuse people of defending what they bought, sometimes counter to all rationality. I suggest that you listen to the D7000 before you make that accusation. Some people like the D5000 more than the D7000, don't think that the D7000 is an upgrade, etc. But you will find even more people belonging to the other side of the fence.

I think odigg's statement about the D7000 having thinner mids than the D5000 is rubbish and anyone who have heard those 2 phones will know just how big an upgrade the D7000's mids are over the D2000 and D5000.

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gu Sensei /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you are really interested in the bass output, I would steer clear of the D5000s. I found them to be great but just not well-suited for music with fuller faster bass lines. The bass regularly sounded out of control, bloated, too soft, and too slow. It was a deal-breaker and I sold them off. I think the biggest difference in the D5000s and D7000s lies there, and that is the one aspect to which I pay most attention and is extremely important for most of the music I listen to. The bass of the D5000s was a liability to me whereas it is one of the best I have heard with the D7000s (the L3000’s being the other). I think the bass output is great on the HD650s but I still prefer what the D7000s have over it. I think you may be happy in the bass department with either but the differences in sound signatures in other areas will dictate which you prefer. Yeah, times two on that. If you really prefer forward sounding vocals that are the most prominent part of the sound signature, than be cautious with the Denons. Other manufacturers line-ups may be preferable. Having said that, I do not find the D7000 midrange to be recessed. It is in quite a nice place for me, just not as prominent as the bass. I can certainly enjoy the prominence of vocals for some music with headphones with a more forward sound like many AT cans, but it is just not that big of an issue for me. If you are planning on picking up one of the Denons for the first time and have the budget, then I say the D7000s are really the best way to go, particularly if you are really into bass. The others are great, but I would put the D7000s in an elite class. Besides the phenomenal bass, the raised level of refinement is a significant difference for me. If you already have one of the other Denons or one of the modded varieties and are completely satisfied with them, perhaps the step up will be less significant. That really is hard to say and it will really depend on the person I imagine. If you are loving one of the others but want to see if you can take the sound signature to a higher level, then I think it would be worthwhile to check them out. At least, if you are amp shopping for the D2000s/D5000s in order to get the most out of them, then I would say forget that and go right for the D7000s. I just do not think an amp/source/cable upgrade will raise the level of control and refinement to that the D7000s. Based on my experience with some modded recabled D2000s, I am highly skeptical as to whether modding the lower models will do any of that either. I really liked the HD650s, but the difference between stock through a decent amp and balanced recabled through an Apache were minimal and not worth it to me. For others, that giant extra cost makes a huge difference and is money well-spent. I am not surprised that Odigg and others will feel the differences between the D7000s and lower numbered models to be less significant than I do. But for me, it is very significant. I can list half a dozen headphones at least that I prefer over the D5000s but none that I like better than the D7000s. As they say, YMMV.

What a perfectly depressing post, I wouldn't even know you liked Denon's had you not made that Denon info thread before. Regardless of what you think however I still want to mod/improve my D2K's, there's no way that WON'T make a difference. Don't like the bloat? Markl. So there.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can testify that the D7000 is a significant upgrade from the D5000 sonic wise. In fact, I will go as far as to argue that the D5000 is an downgrade from the D2000 sonic wise. You accuse people of defending what they bought, sometimes counter to all rationality. I suggest that you listen to the D7000 before you make that accusation. Some people like the D5000 more than the D7000, don't think that the D7000 is an upgrade, etc. But you will find even more people belonging to the other side of the fence. I think odigg's statement about the D7000 having thinner mids than the D5000 is rubbish and anyone who have heard those 2 phones will know just how big an upgrade the D7000's mids are over the D2000 and D5000.

Chill First!

and read Lawton's Page.

.

 

[Gu Sensei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushNerd /img/forum/go_quote.gif What a perfectly depressing post, I wouldn't even know you liked Denon's had you not made that Denon info thread before. Regardless of what you think however I still want to mod/improve my D2K's, there's no way that WON'T make a difference. Don't like the bloat? Markl. So there.

Nah, I am not saying the mods do not make a difference. I really liked the MD2000s and I wish I had tried to mod the D5000s when I had them. I am sure I would have kept them. I think the stock D2000s and stock D5000s both suffer from a bloated bass that is insufficiently controlled. The modded D2000s did not have that problem at all. My point was just that I did not think that modding a D2000 or D5000 (controlling the bass through damping) would likely lead to the level of quality offered by the D7000. Definite speculation on my part as I have only heard one particular version of the modded Denons but considering the main differences between the D7000s and the other two is at the driver level, it is not such a bad guess I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've talked to a few people about the D5000 vs D7000. You of course own the D7000 and I own the D5000. The NORMAL mode here(at Head-Fi) is to righteously defend what you bought and defend it, sometimes counter to all rationality.

I sure hope I am not doing that, or perceived that way. I do try to justify my opinions with reasons, acknowledge the other view as best as possible, and always try point out that others may feel differently!

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your post runs counter to others I have spoken to, and counter to the OP here.

There are plenty of opinions posted that are similar to mine concerning differences between the D7000s and D5000s. There are always a range of views and unless we can hear for ourselves, we have to choose the opinions that speak to us best as guides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif It looks to me that the biggest difference between the 5000 and the 7000 is the finish on the cups. This is a common marketing practice for Headphone companies as well. For instance, the Beyer 770/880/990 all have the same drivers. There are some tweaks to the enclosures. Grados also share the same drivers thru a lot of their models. In the end I'm glad you're happy with the 7000s, they are "better looking" than the 5000s, I'll give you that. I just can't see me "upgrading" for looks.

I am not sure I have read anyone who has heard both claim that the only difference between the two are the finish of the cups. If you are just looking at pictures, externally and cups removed, then sure that would be the noticeable difference. I have no doubt the three share some variation of the same drivers as there is indeed a house sound, but I still have yet to see any clear, official proclamation that the drivers are identical. Denon at least is advertising a change in the strength of the magnet used with the D7000s. It is not hard to imagine that slight changes at the driver level have rather significant effects on the sound produced.

I will definitely be surprised to read that someone feels they sound exactly the same. I would say that I agree with some of how Odigg describes the types of changes (bass control at least) going from the D5000 to the D7000, but would disagree with the significance of those changes. For him, they amounted to a slight change, for me, a rather big one. I am sure plenty of people who own the D5000s and try out the D7000s will share his opinion but am pretty sure there will be many who have a similar experience to mine.

Again, if you are happy with your D5000s, super. Save some money and take a pass on the D7000s. However, if you are thinking about upgrading amps or building a rig around the D5000s, I would suggest bringing home a pair of D7000s for an extended listen first. I would guess most people would find that upgrade to be more significant than changing any other piece of hardware in the chain.

 

[djlemon]

I am in a same situation right now as you were OP.

Brought the D7K home last Friday without testing it and took a listen to it the next day. I found the differences were hard to spot at first and i felt disappointed.

I remembered trying the D7K a couple of months ago at Jaben and fell in love with it. The thing was, it wasn't an extended listen and i didn't A/B it with the D5K which i own since late last year.

The differences i managed to spot were the extended treble, lusher midrange and better bass control which the D7K gives.

Long story cut short, i concluded that i prefer the D5K for rock and dance music and the D7K for easy listening, female vocal and jazz.

I'm leaning towards selling the D7K as i listen to more rock but before i do that, i will get a tube amp, probably the WA6SE and see how they fare together and then decide.

 

[Rakooon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting post for someone considering the 5000/7000 as my next set.

Perfectly agree!
Its funny as i was recently beginning to consider Denon, and of course D5000/D7000 . Great review. Helped me alot !

 

[OSIMOVIL]

Thaks, Odigg. Very interesting post. I have the D5000 and is a very good can. Maybe now I won´t think more in the D7000.

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grados also share the same drivers thru a lot of their models.

Without proof this is nothing but hearsay and rumor.

 

[odigg]

I've been comparing these headphones some more and so I'll post some more comments. Unless people have specific questions these will be the last of my comments as I think everybody has figured out the gist of what I'm trying to say.

I asked my spouse A/B them. She doesn't care about headphones and the bassy sound of the Denons doesn't fit her sonic preferences. Regardless, she's got a pretty good ear so it's nice to use her as a sounding board for this stuff. The music she picked to listen to was mostly real instruments, vocals, with little of the bass you see with rap, hip-hop, etc.

She very quickly said the D7000s had slightly more clarity in the vocals, which makes sense if you consider that the bass of the D7000 stays out of mids as compared to the D5000. Her assessment was correct, but it glances over a devious difference between the D5000 and D7000. The D7000 is slightly louder at the same volume setting on the amp. The Denons specs say the D7000 is slightly more sensitive and it seems slightly louder to my ears.

So, at one point when she was switching from the D7000 to the D5000, I tapped the volume to bump it up slightly. At that point she commented the difference in clarity wasn't there anymore. To be honest, I think I probably moved the volume up a little too much because I do think certain vocals (like Imogen Heap) on the D7000 do have slightly more clarity.

Let's shift gears a bit. Let's talk about magic and let me define magic first. Why would somebody own two different headphones (i.e Grado and Sennhesier)? They would own two headphones because each headphone makes specific types of music "magical." This is why Grado is considered a must have for Rock and Sennheiser a must have for Jazz. They seem to add some "magic" to that music. The why behind magic is not always easily described, but it's almost like an electric feeling that makes you think there is something extraordinary about the music going into your ears.

So let's talk the magic in the D5000 and D7000. Like all headphones, the Denon's can make some music sound magical. So I sat down for a little while and went through different genres of music to see which headphone created more magic and where it created it. I'll spare you the details and just summarize what I found.

If something sounded magical on the D5000, it also sounded magical on the D7000. There was no point where I felt something that sounded magical on one headphone sounded ordinary on the other headphone. This makes sense as these two headphones are very obviously related. We're not taking K701 and HD650 here. There are songs where I felt one headphone was slightly more magical than the other, but no "night and day" comments from me. Sometimes in the same song I felt the D7000 presented slightly more magic to one part of the song and the D5000 to the other.

Everybody is going to have different opinions about which is better. I don't think the D7000 are "obviously" better than the D5000. At the end of the day I could live with either one without missing the other because I feel both headphones give me that voodoo magic the Denon line does so well.

For the people who wanted a review of bassy music, I've written something below. Listening to bassy music is the easiest way to see the difference between the two headphones.

Batman Beings - Molossus. I suppose this is "classical" music, but it's grimy, dirty, harsh, fast, and bassy. The D5000 sounds *slightly* congested here because the bass is not focused where it should be. The focused bass of D7000 seems to give all the instruments a little more room to breath and present themseleves. I don't think it's a huge difference though. The D7000 is giving me more magic than the D5000, which are also giving me magic. I wonder, if I listened to the D5000 exclusively for a few days if it would still sound congested with this song.

Fergie - Glamourous, Lady Gaga - Just Dance, Kanye West - Love Lockdown, some techno from the 90s, and more. I consider all these songs to have some fairly solid bass so this would apply most to the bassheads. The bass thump on the D7000 is deep, defined, and controlled. The bass thump on the D5000 seems softer (in terms of how wide it is) and somewhat less loud in terms of volume. Let me make an analogy to the physical world to explain this. Imagine a large piece of foam in front of you. Now make a fist with one hand and push it into the foam. Then take your other hand and poke the tip of your thumb into the foam, a little deeper than the depth of your fist. If the impression your fist makes in the foam is the D5000 then the impression you see with the D7000 is your thumb. Wide and soft versus focused.

So the D7000 is obviously better right? Probably. I guess it depends how you like your bass.

Please keep the following in mind. I'm ABSOLUTELY NOT trying to argue that the D7000 is not worth the money or is superfluous. The D7000 is an incredible sounding headphone with it's own strengths over the D5000. I would say, like Gu Sensei said, if you are content with your D5000, the D7000 isn't automatically a necessary purchase. You get that special magic from both headphones.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Without proof this is nothing but hearsay and rumor.

I own 4 Grados and have taken them all apart...

Ohhh, and you can read their ad copy...

.