[Beav]

Quote:

Headroom - The Denon AH-D5000 are reference-grade, sealed-earcup headphones capable of audio performance on par with the very best open-backed cans in the industry. The scientific audio lab measurements don’t lie: the results we've seen in every category for the AH-D5000 rival that of any high-end audiophile reference headphone that has entered our testing facility. But of course it's not just the stunning specs that have us grinning like kids as we exchange hi-fives and fist-bumps, its the actual sound that is the real ultimate test for demanding audiophiles. And, boy, what a sound. Lush, inviting, and intensely focused musical detail in every single part of the frequency spectrum with a purely seamless tonal quality that brings every subtle nuance of the recording into clear relief.

Very well, I guess I was carried away with the experience of listening to them yesterday and after reading this I was overcome with "best" in my head LOL Anyway, let's say on par then with the best. How did this thread get into bashing modern engineering school graduates. I guess like rivers, threads will go where they will go. I too have a grudge against modern business practices. I'm 50 years old with tons of experience in my field, and in these hard times we face, it is the young who are getting the opportunities, not my generation. But that is how it's always been; you adapt, you move on from that which doesn't work to that which does. I've never been much for brand names other than a slight comfort factor that the re-sell market will fair better for me. When it comes to quality, I let my ears be the judge. Anyway, let the river take it's course

 

[silverrain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philco /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have brought some rock solid points to the table there. I didn't know Denon was using OEM Fostex drivers. In this case, this company is a big "no-no" in my book and I have to say that I might have been *very* wrong all the way by assuming they wanted it to sound good/better that other headphones on the market. I believe serious headphone companies design their own drivers. By using OEM Fostex ones, they might just have made a cheap (as you said, you're absolutely right on the poor quality of the materials) enclosure and tried to get a somewhat satisfying sound out of the D5000. Now I'll stop eying these cans and will be back to BeyerDynamic or Sennheiser I won't give that much money for this less quality and effort. I prefer to spend my dough on some HD650, DT880 or DT990.

Oh dear -- I'm just gonna throw my D5000 into the trash, and pretend I never liked them! The nerve of those people! I don't care how good the Denons sound -- this is just unacceptable!

I'm not reading this stuff any further -- I am now convinced the Denons are crap, no matter how god they sound. What nerve!

Now, all you people that were thinking about buying D5000 -- you have been warned! Save your money!

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beav /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very well, I guess I was carried away with the experience of listening to them yesterday and after reading this I was overcome with "best" in my head LOL Anyway, let's say on par then with the best. How did this thread get into bashing modern engineering school graduates. I guess like rivers, threads will go where they will go. I too have a grudge against modern business practices. I'm 50 years old with tons of experience in my field, and in these hard times we face, it is the young who are getting the opportunities, not my generation. But that is how it's always been; you adapt, you move on from that which doesn't work to that which does. I've never been much for brand names other than a slight comfort factor that the re-sell market will fair better for me. When it comes to quality, I let my ears be the judge. Anyway, let the river take it's course

Just so you know... a "B School Grad" is not an engineering grad - its a "Business School Grad." Nothing wrong with engineering grads, per se. They certainly are in a better position to evaluate, or even design headphones for Denon, than "B School Grads" - but, its the "B School Grads" that almost always are the ones to "show companies the light" of how they can maximize their margins, in manners that almost always destroy the companies by turning them into "consumer products" companies without "quality" products, while attempting to deceive the public that their "brand" offers only "quality" products, when it no longer does (e.g. Harmon Kardon, Dell, HP, etc., etc., etc.).

But... as I said elsewhere... no matter whether the driver housing is "metal, or plastic" - the D5000s just sound better and better as they burn in, more and more. You will have to judge whether that makes a difference to you, and whether they sound as good as Senns, or other phones, which apparently mount their drivers in plastic frames also. The Senns sound just fine to me - though it does appear that the design of their driver housing is more rigid then that of Denon.

And... after all... isn't that one of the things the "Markl Mods" are attempting to address - the "flexibility and vibrations" in the driver housing / frames - by damping them and "reducing the moment of inertia" to "tighten up and clear their sound." If metal frames would have been a better material to do that - why didn't Denon use metal? Perhaps... you should direct that question to their "B School Grads."

Ooops... but... then that's a judgment more appropriately made by an "engineering grad" than a "B School Grad" - sorry.

 

[Beav]

Quote:

its a "Business School Grad."

Ah...I see, well it takes all types to make the world go round

 

[markl]

If it's more efficient to out-source a part of your product, you would be a fool not to. Why would you buy all the tooling, hire all the staff, build all the facilities, to build it yourself when there are already a set of specialized businesses (experts) you can choose from and get bids from who will build that piece for you for a heck of a lot less? There's nothing "evil" in this, and it goes on all the time everywhere, and it doesn't take a "b-school grad" to see how it makes perfect sense.

Unless you want to pay $1500 for your D5000...

Gradofan2, I presume you are a younger person, probably a college student, is that correct? Businesses are, well businesses. They are there to make a profit, otherwise, no one that works there will have a job anymore. People specialize in areas of expertise. You wouldn't trust the design of your product to the HR department. You wouldn't want the sales dept. managing your accounting. And you wouldn't want engineers running your business.

Business is an art and a science, and there are plenty of great principles you can learn in b-school. If you want experts in engineering, you hire engineering grads. If you want experts in business, you hire b-school grads.

It's takes a butt to fill every seat, and in your career, you are going to encounter a lot of b-school grads. Having a chip on your shoulder about them won't help you any in your work.

So, in any case, let's please stop bashing people. K?

 

[xnothingpoetic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverrain /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh dear -- I'm just gonna throw my D5000 into the trash, and pretend I never liked them! The nerve of those people! I don't care how good the Denons sound -- this is just unacceptable! I'm not reading this stuff any further -- I am now convinced the Denons are crap, no matter how god they sound. What nerve! Now, all you people that were thinking about buying D5000 -- you have been warned! Save your money!

I'll take 'em off your hands for $10

 

[mstorie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif ((As an aside, no, Headroom did NOT say that that the D5000 was the world's best dynamic headphone. And, by my reading, they don't even say that it's the world's best closed can - they say it ranks with the best, or ties them, or something. Speaking of marketing...............!!))

Actually, they did say "top sealed headphone we've heard"...

Our 10 Best Headphones - HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears

 

[robm321]

Wow, I think its really time I investigate the D5000s (which means buy them) and apply the mod. I really have a good feeling about these and would be suprised if I didn't have the same opinion in the end after reading a lot about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmilhan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, as hard as it may seem to believe, my D5000s with markl mod applied have become my "go to" cans, and have effectively knocked Grado out of the top slot for every day use phones. Once I purchased the D5000s and started spending some quality time with them, my Grado collection gradually became less and less used, until they eventually became completely ignored - so I sold all of them except for the MS-1s. I liked the D5000s so much that I ended up grabbing a pair of D2000s for my office rig, and a pair of D1000s for my wife's little portable rig. Denon really has a winning line of phones IMO. 95% of my listening sessions are with either the D5000s or D2000s. I am still hanging on to the K1000s, because they have a special place in my heart, but they don't see nearly as much use as they did prior to me buying the D5000s. Of coarse, this is just one man's opinion, and I would strongly suggest anyone interested in the Denon phones to try them out for themselves since they aren't everyones "cup of tea", but for me the Denons are definitely keepers - they fit just about all of my needs/requirements for a great sounding every day use phone. As a bonus, they are supremely comfortable to boot, so those 6 hour listening sessions are easy on my head and ears! And for the record, Grado headphones do still hold a special place in my heart, and I still think they are great phones, but I have a personal policy in place that says that if a pair of headphones in my collection go completely unused for a significant amount of time, then I sell them. And that is pretty much what happened with my Grado phones once I got ahold of a pair of D5000s. So feel free to interpret that any way you want to!

 

[petester]

Registered just so I could say ditto to Robm321. I also just ordered D5000's and am fully prepared to have a go at them (hope to not have too many bits left lying around after I'm done). I may even listen to them first if I can resist pulling them apart. At least this time it won't be just to see what's inside! BTW, thanks to all for such interesting reading. Already I pity my wallet.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it's more efficient to out-source a part of your product, you would be a fool not to. Why would you buy all the tooling, hire all the staff, build all the facilities, to build it yourself when there are already a set of specialized businesses (experts) you can choose from and get bids from who will build that piece for you for a heck of a lot less? There's nothing "evil" in this, and it goes on all the time everywhere, and it doesn't take a "b-school grad" to see how it makes perfect sense. Unless you want to pay $1500 for your D5000... Gradofan2, I presume you are a younger person, probably a college student, is that correct? Businesses are, well businesses. They are there to make a profit, otherwise, no one that works there will have a job anymore. People specialize in areas of expertise. You wouldn't trust the design of your product to the HR department. You wouldn't want the sales dept. managing your accounting. And you wouldn't want engineers running your business. Business is an art and a science, and there are plenty of great principles you can learn in b-school. If you want experts in engineering, you hire engineering grads. If you want experts in business, you hire b-school grads. It's takes a butt to fill every seat, and in your career, you are going to encounter a lot of b-school grads. Having a chip on your shoulder about them won't help you any in your work. So, in any case, let's please stop bashing people. K?

I'm not sure I fully appreciate you're points - they don't seem to relate to my discussion of the cases of companies that once offered "high-end" products, that were well engineered, that "lost their way" as the result of "failed attempts" to cut costs, or otherwise improve their margins by "cutting corners," while attempting to promote a past "brand identity," for products that are no-longer "high-end."

Such "short-term, short-sighted" strategies and tactics almost always fail in the long-term, resulting in the overall decline or failure of those companies. There are case after case examples of such declines and failures. And... almost always the result of the "bright ideas" of "B School Grads, and consultants" who "think they have the 'novel solutions'" to the challenges of maintaining or increasing market share, or margins over the short-term.

And... I haven't "bashed" anyone, in particular, or mentioned Fostex drivers or auto parts... I'm uncertain how they're relevant. I have suggested, that many companies attempt to promote a "mythical" past brand identity, long after the "quality" of their products has deteriorated, as the result of the short-term, short-sighted "bright ideas" to cut costs in one manner, or another.

Short-term, short-sighted, cost-cutting actions are neither "evil," nor "good" - just frequently misguided and in error, with poor results, and outcomes... often leading to lost market share, and sales volumes... which, companies attempt to overcome by promoting a "brand-identity" of the past. As I pointed out... Dell and HP are two very recent examples... from which both companies are now scrambling to recover.

As a "B School Grad and Consultant" to such companies... I would never counsel my clients to take short-term views, or approaches, or to adopt the latest "fads," to achieve short-term results, at the expense of long-term successes... or... to destroy the true quality of their products, or customer service to achieve very short-lived improvements in their margins. But... I have witnessed others who have - it cost those companies dearly - Dell and HP, are but a few.

 

[raif]

I would like it if we could agree on one thing: only 1 pair of quotation marks every 2 paragraphs. Everytime I read one of these posts I stop and form a mental image of someone doing the quotation marks sign. When it happens more than once a sentence I start to get a little frazzled.

As far as the denon discussion goes, I would definitely like to do a comparison of the modded and un-modded d5000. Over my time in head-fi I have become a little wary of these "night and day" reports of what usually boils down to a minor shift towards a person's preference.

I love the Denons to death, but I do agree that the bass could be tightened. If the difference was significant enough I would risk modding them myself.

So who wants to drive to Sacramento?

By the way, I know that I use quotes a lot too. I was joking around, so please don't get offended.

 

[zeluiz22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenithon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you can't fault this place for variety ....I personally found the D5000 bass to be, how should I say it, torrid. Whether it was too thick, too little control, too syrupy, too much overhang, too much bleed into the midrange, or...well...simply too much....I don't know. But likewise, I found the W5000 to be too thin and bright to be a keeper. Yet, some people enjoy it and think its bass response is the best they've ever experienced. And, some even say it mates the best with their - gulp - DAC1 (my skin crawls and ears start ringing at the very thought of matching W5K with DAC1 ) @Beav - yes, very brave indeed. I think most people here have said that at least once in their Head-Fi career. Must be something to do with denial @zelius - I s'pose if you are enjoying it you aren't considering the markl mods? I personally haven't heard but it seems that many are waxing lyrical about it as the new giant killer.

No- I may give the Mark mods a try- good can always be better.

 

[uglijimus]

I spent almost a half an hour at the store the other day deciding between the D2000 and D5000. The 2000 CLEARLY had way more bass than the 5000. The 5000's had great resolution of the highs making it clearer than the 2000, but the 2000's had a bit more bite in the mid-range (which I like) and the low-end was monstorous. I ordered them (2000) when I came home and I should be getting them tomorrow.

 

[uraflit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would like it if we could agree on one thing: only 1 pair of quotation marks every 2 paragraphs. Everytime I read one of these posts I stop and form a mental image of someone doing the quotation marks sign. When it happens more than once a sentence I start to get a little frazzled. As far as the denon discussion goes, I would definitely like to do a comparison of the modded and un-modded d5000. Over my time in head-fi I have become a little wary of these "night and day" reports of what usually boils down to a minor shift towards a person's preference. I love the Denons to death, but I do agree that the bass could be tightened. If the difference was significant enough I would risk modding them myself. So who wants to drive to Sacramento? By the way, I know that I use quotes a lot too. I was joking around, so please don't get offended.

yes. yes. and i would like to listen to them as well =P

Quote:

Originally Posted by uglijimus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I spent almost a half an hour at the store the other day deciding between the D2000 and D5000. The 2000 CLEARLY had way more bass than the 5000. The 5000's had great resolution of the highs making it clearer than the 2000, but the 2000's had a bit more bite in the mid-range (which I like) and the low-end was monstorous. I ordered them (2000) when I came home and I should be getting them tomorrow.

and here i thought people were saying the d5000 had more bass !!!

 

[markl]

Quote:

and here i thought people were saying the d5000 had more bass !!!

D5000 has 5db more bass according to Headroom's measurements. I hear more bass from the D5000 myself.