[Beav]

Quote:

Whether it was too thick, too little control, too syrupy, too much overhang, too much bleed into the midrange, or...well...simply too much....I don't know.

Xenithon,

What type of music do you enjoy? I'm curious about your reaction to the bass. I'm trying to decide if it is more the "cause" of the headphone, or the upstream components. I do believe that you heard what you heard, I'm just trying to figure out why. I don't believe the headphones could be inconsistant in build to produce these differing effects, so either our ears are the culprit, each having preferences that can lend terms like bloated or "torrid" to a frequency range, or our upstream components are the key.

 

[lmilhan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, I have been away from headfi for too long. lmilhan has no Grados and a D5000. The Denon is really interesting me lately. This post may not help the thread, but I posted it anyway.

Yeah, as hard as it may seem to believe, my D5000s with markl mod applied have become my "go to" cans, and have effectively knocked Grado out of the top slot for every day use phones. Once I purchased the D5000s and started spending some quality time with them, my Grado collection gradually became less and less used, until they eventually became completely ignored - so I sold all of them except for the MS-1s.

I liked the D5000s so much that I ended up grabbing a pair of D2000s for my office rig, and a pair of D1000s for my wife's little portable rig. Denon really has a winning line of phones IMO. 95% of my listening sessions are with either the D5000s or D2000s. I am still hanging on to the K1000s, because they have a special place in my heart, but they don't see nearly as much use as they did prior to me buying the D5000s.

Of coarse, this is just one man's opinion, and I would strongly suggest anyone interested in the Denon phones to try them out for themselves since they aren't everyones "cup of tea", but for me the Denons are definitely keepers - they fit just about all of my needs/requirements for a great sounding every day use phone. As a bonus, they are supremely comfortable to boot, so those 6 hour listening sessions are easy on my head and ears!

And for the record, Grado headphones do still hold a special place in my heart, and I still think they are great phones, but I have a personal policy in place that says that if a pair of headphones in my collection go completely unused for a significant amount of time, then I sell them. And that is pretty much what happened with my Grado phones once I got ahold of a pair of D5000s. So feel free to interpret that any way you want to!

 

[xenithon]

Quote:

What type of music do you enjoy? I'm curious about your reaction to the bass. I'm trying to decide if it is more the "cause" of the headphone, or the upstream components. I do believe that you heard what you heard, I'm just trying to figure out why. I don't believe the headphones could be inconsistant in build to produce these differing effects, so either our ears are the culprit, each having preferences that can lend terms like bloated or "torrid" to a frequency range, or our upstream components are the key.

I certainly think it is our ears (and personal preferences) which are the culprit. As mentioned in an earlier post, I have heard some say that the D5000 has just enough bass to be realistic whilst others say such things as them finding the W5000 to have borderline on excess bass....to each his own I guess.

I listen to a wide variety of music, ranging from (a lot of) female vocal, big symphonic works, 80's rock, and so on - a portion of which has some serious bass output, whilst much does not have inherently heavy low frequency information.

Bare in mind too that I am comparing the bass to the likes of the Stax SR-007 and SR-Omega, ATH-AD2000, AKG K701, and AKG K1000. Each and every one of those I find to have less bass - sometimes significantly so - than the D5000. However, every one of those I also found to have more controlled, tuneful, musical, and textured bass. In other words, I believe that sometimes less is more

 

[Beav]

Quote:

Bare in mind too that I am comparing the bass to the likes of the Stax SR-007 and SR-Omega, ATH-AD2000, AKG K701, and AKG K1000. Each and every one of those I find to have less bass - sometimes significantly so - than the D5000. However, every one of those I also found to have more controlled, tuneful, musical, and textured bass. In other words, I believe that sometimes less is more

Interestingly I've also owned the K701 & 1000's, and found the them to be very good cans, but nothing that pulled me into headphones as a reference way to listen to music. The Beyer 990's came very close, but it was the 5000's that finally got me to say "wow" when it came to the music via my headphone rig.

I've been in the learning process the past year in regards to headphones. I retired from Reviewing gear at PFO over 2 years ago due to various circumstances. The primary of which was losing my reference speaker rig to hard times. Now with the Denon and a few other items coming together to hearing "reference" sound on my headphone rig, I've worked up the confidence to return to writing and my first review will feature the Denon along with a power cord that helped bring the whole thing together for me.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beav /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interestingly I've also owned the K701 & 1000's, and found the them to be very good cans, but nothing that pulled me into headphones as a reference way to listen to music. The Beyer 990's came very close, but it was the 5000's that finally got me to say "wow" when it came to the music via my headphone rig. . . .

Very often this phenomenon can be source- and/or amp- and/or wire-dependent, not simply due to the headphones alone. For example, I've owned the K701 on multiple occasions, but it wasn't until I had the K701 recabled (w/RAL Paradise wire) and began driving them with the Bada (fitted w/optimal tube choices) that I sat up and took notice of what the AKG were indeed capable of doing. For example, I'd formerly had the Moon SDV2 recabled K701 w/the MPX3 (non-SLAM) w/1x Mullard CV-181 & 2x Sylvania 6SN7W, but the Darkvoice 336i drove the K701 better--much better, in fact--than the MPX3.

The same is true of the K501, which I've owned on three occasions, but am only now beginning to genuinely appreciate (i.e. in league with synergistic companion gear).

 

[raif]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmilhan /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... Once I purchased the D5000s and started spending some quality time with them, my Grado collection gradually became less and less used, until they eventually became completely ignored ....

This is funny because I had pretty much had the same response.

I started this game looking for closed headphones, found out how crappy most are, then ended up owning a multitude of grado's. I had pretty much given up on an enjoyable closed headphone experience and eventually settled on the PS-1 as my reference phone. Though not as refined as the ps-1, the denon fit every other desire(comfort, closed, non-fatiguing) while providing a sound signature I thought unattainable in a closed headphone.

Needless to say, the ps-1s have since been sold and I don't see the denon's going anywhere any time soon.

 

[pataburd]

Did you try the Proline 750? I had a great time with the RAL recabled PL750; the fondest "closed can" experience of recent memory, for me at least. : ) The Ed. 9 sound like a worthwhile experiment, too.

 

[warpdriver]

I'm still finding it amazing that for once, the graphs *DO* tell the story. Maybe headroom is just doing a better job setting up the measurement rig or something? The graphs looks exactly what I thought they would and the differences between the D2000 and D5000 are exactly conveyed on the graph as well

The difference in the graphs between the D2K and D5K are exactly what I hear. They still do have a similar overall similarity compared to say, a Grado, AKG, or Senn and it's clear to me they are cut from the same cloth. I still think the D2000 is a reference class headphone in its price range, just like the D5000 is within the higher tier, but like all things, it's a law of diminishing returns. I might bite the bullet and pony up the cash for the D5000 later, but the D2000 gets so much right that I am in no rush.

Between my Triple Fi and the D2000, the other headphones I have aren't seeing a lot of use anymore. I still like my CK7 for knockaround earphones, but I'm finally at a good place again with my rig

 

[nnotis]

I agree with anyone who thinks that the D5000's bass is out of control. The amount is not so much the problem, rather it's the obstruction of higher frequencies.

I can't stress enough that anyone with the D5000s really needs to do the markl mods, or have markl do them. The bass becomes much more detailed without loosing any extension, and it no longer obscures the mids. Actually, the whole spectrum becomes surprisingly more detailed with the mods. I won't even go into the headstage improvements.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnotis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with anyone who thinks that the D5000's bass is out of control. The amount is not so much the problem, rather it's the obstruction of higher frequencies. I can't stress enough that anyone with the D5000s really needs to do the markl mods, or have markl do them. The bass becomes much more detailed without loosing any extension, and it no longer obscures the mids.

Would that mean that D2000 in stock form with applied from the factory dampening is better in that area? Might be the reason some claim that recabled D2000 sounds better than D5000, it just has less bass bloat to begin with. Just moving D2000 drivers further away from ears by either stuffing pads or stretching headband was enough for me to fully tame overwhelming bass and bump up details, treble, and sounstage.
And yes, D2000 and D5000 do share the same driver.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnotis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with anyone who thinks that the D5000's bass is out of control. The amount is not so much the problem, rather it's the obstruction of higher frequencies. I can't stress enough that anyone with the D5000s really needs to do the markl mods, or have markl do them. The bass becomes much more detailed without loosing any extension, and it no longer obscures the mids. Actually, the whole spectrum becomes surprisingly more detailed with the mods. I won't even go into the headstage improvements.

And... they also do need an amp with very low impedence output (1-2 ohms) and lots of current... which does a remarkable job of "clearing them up" - top to bottom - even without the "Markl Mods."

I hope the "Markl Mods" can take them the rest of the way - since its a significant investment beyond the $388 base price (which is the price I paid). Because... if they don't... it could be difficult to recover your total investment. Which is precisely why I've not yet completed the "Markl Mods" - because I've been a huge skeptic... given their sound "right out of the box."

 

[Beav]

Quote:

I can't stress enough that anyone with the D5000s really needs to do the markl mods, or have markl do them.

Since I don't find the bass to be overwhelming the mids or drowning the highs...about the only thing I'd be willing to do in this regards is to listen to a modded 5000 in comparison to my stock one. If I hear the difference in comparison, which I'm not saying isn't there, simply that I'm not experiencing it, then I'd have it done to my unit. I just can't justify a mod "fix" when I don't hear the "problem".

 

[warpdriver]

Beav, in other words, "don't fix what ain't broke"

I think the D5000's bass is fine also, but that's how *I* hear it. Unless we can share another person's ear, there are no absolutes in judgement of sound quality.

 

[headphones]

Wow that is a lot of money but you should of bought them online at the electronic store that offers free return shipping. They even have price matching so they would of honored amazon prices as long as they are a official Denon reseller which amazon is. Yes it is free return shipping for 30 days even if you just were unhappy with the product it does not have to be broken or you received the wrong item.

 

[bungle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm still finding it amazing that for once, the graphs *DO* tell the story. Maybe headroom is just doing a better job setting up the measurement rig or something? The graphs looks exactly what I thought they would and the differences between the D2000 and D5000 are exactly conveyed on the graph as well

I've seen others', but care to share your opinion on the differences and how they relate to the graph? I understand the numbers, but don't have the visceral understanding where I can "hear" what's on the graph.