[Hyde00]

I dont think it would be the same sound as the D9200 because the housing is a bit different with bamboo cups plus the D9200 are put together by japanese professional and this is probably just some music enthusiast.

It wont have the same sound signature as the D5200 because the drivers probably dont have the same tuning but I might be wrong.
Another question is if those claimed D9200 drivers are really the same drivers as I know very well thats what they say online but they do come from aliexpress.

So, something to consider here... but I would love to hear them and especially compare to the D7200.

Yeah I'm a bit intrigued but not brave enough to actually buy it LOL. Similar cases where I've seen people who swap drivers on Elegia, Radiance and Stellia.

Though I've recently bought Lawton Modded TH900 so I think I'm good for a bit (also wallet died).

So basically do I understand correctly : between the 5200 and 7200 there is a difference in both tone and resolution.

5200 lower resolution, the sound in more neutral .

7200 - higher resolution, the sound is more dark.

The same tendency like between AKG k701 and K712 ( although they are open )

Yeah pretty much, so to recap:

5200 = lowest resolution, most balanced tuning

7200 = closer resolution to 9200, dark tuning

9200 = highest resolution, bright tuning

So in a perfect world people say buy 7200 since cost is closer to 5200, but resolution closer to 9200. Then EQ to 5200 sound.

 

[Maitre Renard]

In my place I have a possibility to purchase d5200 for 300 euros and d7200 for 460 euros, so there is a difference in price! So naturally I have an affinity towards the d5200

But does the resolution of the d5200 is really low ? How we could compare the both models to the top beyrdybamics Lille dt1770 or T1 ?

 

[dougms3]

Yeah I'm a bit intrigued but not brave enough to actually buy it LOL. Similar cases where I've seen people who swap drivers on Elegia, Radiance and Stellia.

Though I've recently bought Lawton Modded TH900 so I think I'm good for a bit (also wallet died).

Yeah pretty much, so to recap:

5200 = lowest resolution, most balanced tuning

7200 = closer resolution to 9200, dark tuning

9200 = highest resolution, bright tuning

So in a perfect world people say buy 7200 since cost is closer to 5200, but resolution closer to 9200. Then EQ to 5200 sound.

Considering the amount of variation based on where and how much dampening material I've used to modify my 7200s as well as the driver specs. I'm pretty sure that they're all using the same drivers.

I've not heard either the 5200 or 9200 but the resolution in the 7200s can be improved drastically with some dampening.

 

[rids57]

Considering the amount of variation based on where and how much dampening material I've used to modify my 7200s as well as the driver specs. I'm pretty sure that they're all using the same drivers.

I've not heard either the 5200 or 9200 but the resolution in the 7200s can be improved drastically with some dampening.

The D9200's use a finer bio-Celulose material (smaller particles) for their drivers - I remember seeing that in the Denon adverts when they were first released.

 

[dougms3]

The D9200's use a finer bio-Celulose material (smaller particles) for their drivers - I remember seeing that in the Denon adverts when they were first released.

Sounds like marketing fluff to me.

All 3 use, 50mm dynamic FreeEdge nanofiber drivers.

105db sensitivity for all 3.

D5200 and D7200 are listed at 24 ohms and the D9200 listed at 25ohms.

Considering how much tuning has gone into these headphones, I am going to assume that they are all using the same driver.

 

[HawaiiR]

Apologies if this question has been answered already, but this thread obviously seemed like the right place to ask:
Is there anyone who does modifications for the 7200? I know Lawton offers mod kits for the 2000/5000/7000, but I didn't find anything for the 7200. I've owned my pair for around 10 months maybe, but it mostly just sits in the case. I'm wondering if there are any modifications worth looking into before I decide to give up on it.

Thanks!

 

[dougms3]

Apologies if this question has been answered already, but this thread obviously seemed like the right place to ask:
Is there anyone who does modifications for the 7200? I know Lawton offers mod kits for the 2000/5000/7000, but I didn't find anything for the 7200. I've owned my pair for around 10 months maybe, but it mostly just sits in the case. I'm wondering if there are any modifications worth looking into before I decide to give up on it.

Thanks!

Check post #2663 & 2679.

I added some fo.q ta32 and phone art tape and it reigned in the messiness in the lower mids and bass. Its smoother in the upper mids and treble as well and almost all the grain is gone.

I've noticed theres alot of resonance coming off the plastic on the frame as well as the plastic ring around the driver.

 

[zolkis]

Considering how much tuning has gone into these headphones, I am going to assume that they are all using the same driver.

No, they have different drivers. They sound and measure differently in a number of ways.

Is there anyone who does modifications for the 7200?

I did extensive tuning on the D7200, out of necessity. Some D7200 samples, including mine, have had a ringing/honky midrange problem, which required cups damping adjustments - well, until the cups aged to 2+ years. I assume this was due to variations in wood sourcing/quality. The good news is that aging improves the wooden cups (no big news here, it's wood).

Then, the wooden cups make a pretty big tonal difference: walnut cups make the same drivers sound darker and thicker, the bamboo makes the sound more open. My experience with a lot of wooden cups (Fostex, Massdrop, Denon models) might go against popular (including Lawton) wisdom: I consistently preferred lighter woods, especially those typically used for guitar tops. Urushi (TH900) is very good (certainly still the best for the TH900), bamboo as well.

The D7200 drivers in the D9200 enclosure sound more open and without the brightness of the D9200 drivers - which still have more resolution from the bass to the treble. Choose your preferred compromise .

As for tuning, an UPOCC pure silver (not silver plated copper) cable is a good match for the D7200, while an UPOCC copper cabble is a good match for the D9200.
The stock cables are passable, but not the best. IME polymer impregnated cotton is far better for insulating than teflon (when sound is the priority), unfortunately less and less manufacturers use that. The exception may be the gold plated silver cables (e.g. Toxic) which sound good even with teflon coating, likely since gold already solves the crystal boundary problem. Also, most cables use too thin strands (typically 0.08 mm) whereas IMHO the optimal strand diameter for Litz cables is 3-4 times that, around 0.3 mm for headphone cables.

The D7200 has a rather narrow finetuning headroom (needed mostly in the midrange), but the D9200 brightness tendency is harder to handle.
Therefore the D9200 is the more sensitive one to ancillary equipment, most of which tend to sound hard, not being a good match.

If I was Denon, I would experiment using the D9200 drivers with cedar cups and copper cables, and the D7200 drivers with bamboo cups and pure silver cables.
The D9200 would maintain the lead, the D7200 closely following with slight different "best" tuning.

In both cases, the most time I have spent on the ear pads tuning. The stock ear pads are too thick and too stuffed, with too much foam mass, i.e. over-damped.
Reducing the foam mass in the ear pads really unlocks the potential of these headphones.

Earlier in this thread I shared ear pad mods, IIRC with measurements. For the D7200, the best pads were their own (or D5200/D9200) pads in which the internal foam was trimmed 20-40% from the back and perhaps 10% from the front, to become thinner and with slightly bigger internal opening. That is, ear pads should be a bit more shallow and with a bit more internal opening. One can leave the (p)leather shell unmodified, the internal foam is enough. However, these mods require cutting and sewing.

The D9200s sound good with a wider range of ear pads, the best being the (modded) Stax 007 and 009 pads, or their own finetuned ear pads.

Note that I am not making mods for anyone. But anyone is free to try these ideas.

 

[dougms3]

No, they have different drivers. They sound and measure differently in a number of ways.

You know this for a fact because Denon marketing says so?

If you place the same driver in 10 different earcups, you already know this, it will sound different in each one so I'm not sure how sound and measurements being different indicates that its a different driver.

All of the replaceable parts you mentioned are no longer available and were very expensive when they were.

What specifically is better about removing the foam? Because at that point, its no longer reversible and unless you're sure without a doubt that it will improve the sound, thats a big risk as you wouldn't be able to get replacements for those. And in my experience, it takes time to listen and know for sure if you will like an adjustment like that.

I agree it has some issues with the midrange and the lower half of the FR in general in stock form. I think its the plastic pieces in the frame and around the driver that are bouncing sound off them causing resonance. Reason I think this is the issue is because when I placed vibration dampening tape on the plastic pieces, it almost completely removed the grain and tightened up the bass.

 

[krenky]

Just my opinion about tuning headphones:

1) Only go ahead and start with the tuning work if you really know what you are doing and have experience with it.

2) I dont think you will be able to make perfect tuning until you have 2 pairs of the same headphones then whatever you do you can always compare it with the default / stock sound and use it as a guidance in your improvements.

3) You need tuning? Try the EQ first. In my case I achieved a great amount of improvements in terms of sound and I am very happy with the results. Plus clicking one button I can get back to stock sound and back.

4) Source quality and amps also do matter a lot but in terms of cables I have hard time to recognize any sound differences.

4) If you are still not happy how they sound etc.... sell them !!!

 

[zolkis]

You know this for a fact because Denon marketing says so?

I don't know what Denon marketing says. I listened to them myself, and measured them myself.

What specifically is better about removing the foam? Because at that point, its no longer reversible and unless you're sure without a doubt that it will improve the sound, thats a big risk as you wouldn't be able to get replacements for those. And in my experience, it takes time to listen and know for sure if you will like an adjustment like that.

What's better? Openness, bigger sound stage, far better bass presentation, overall pretty much everything. But the amount depends on what you want and where you start from. Right, it's a risk, but you can mitigate that by doing very small steps/micro-trims.
Needs a second pair of pads, since you will want to be able to do A/B comparisons and measurements.

I agree it has some issues with the midrange and the lower half of the FR in general in stock form. I think its the plastic pieces in the frame and around the driver that are bouncing sound off them causing resonance. Reason I think this is the issue is because when I placed vibration dampening tape on the plastic pieces, it almost completely removed the grain and tightened up the bass.

That's right, and for me the biggest effect was the plastic ring for mounting the ear pads. That needed to go. I went back and forth dozens of times, all consistent, and not only on these headphones. It's better to use glue-pads to attach any ear pads on the housing (that is 100% reversible), or use thin metallic rings like the Stax 009.

Proper vibration damping needs heavy (e.g. lead) plating... but light damping is possible with tape, or sorbothane etc. The problem is that I can hear everything added or removed inside the operating acoustic space behind or front of the drivers, which is aggravated by the kind of Onken driver loading they (Fostex and Denon) are using. It needs careful balancing to avoid under- or over-damping. This area is more difficult to get right, but at least it's reversible.

 

[krenky]

I don't know what Denon marketing says. I listened to them myself, and measured them myself.



What's better? Openness, bigger sound stage, far better bass presentation, overall pretty much everything. But the amount depends on what you want and where you start from. Right, it's a risk, but you can mitigate that by doing very small steps/micro-trims.
Needs a second pair of pads, since you will want to be able to do A/B comparisons and measurements.



That's right, and for me the biggest effect was the plastic ring for mounting the ear pads. That needed to go. I went back and forth dozens of times, all consistent, and not only on these headphones. It's better to use glue-pads to attach any ear pads on the housing (that is 100% reversible), or use thin metallic rings like the Stax 009.

Proper vibration damping needs heavy (e.g. lead) plating... but light damping is possible with tape, or sorbothane etc. The problem is that I can hear everything added or removed inside the operating acoustic space behind or front of the drivers, which is aggravated by the kind of Onken driver loading they (Fostex and Denon) are using. It needs careful balancing to avoid under- or over-damping. This area is more difficult to get right, but at least it's reversible.

Are there any pads that would fit the D7200 and are better sounding (according your study)? Something I can purchase rather than sew myself

 

[dougms3]

I don't know what Denon marketing says. I listened to them myself, and measured them myself.



What's better? Openness, bigger sound stage, far better bass presentation, overall pretty much everything. But the amount depends on what you want and where you start from. Right, it's a risk, but you can mitigate that by doing very small steps/micro-trims.
Needs a second pair of pads, since you will want to be able to do A/B comparisons and measurements.



That's right, and for me the biggest effect was the plastic ring for mounting the ear pads. That needed to go. I went back and forth dozens of times, all consistent, and not only on these headphones. It's better to use glue-pads to attach any ear pads on the housing (that is 100% reversible), or use thin metallic rings like the Stax 009.

Proper vibration damping needs heavy (e.g. lead) plating... but light damping is possible with tape, or sorbothane etc. The problem is that I can hear everything added or removed inside the operating acoustic space behind or front of the drivers, which is aggravated by the kind of Onken driver loading they (Fostex and Denon) are using. It needs careful balancing to avoid under- or over-damping. This area is more difficult to get right, but at least it's reversible.

Measurements and listening is far from definitive proof that they're different drivers. Unless you've opened up the drivers and examining the magnet, voice coil and internal material of all 3. I'm going by the specs of all 3 and they're suspiciously identical. After all, this is a common thing Japanese manufacturers do.

I don't like doing any mods that are not reversible unless I know for a fact it will improve the sound. If I can, I usually replace the driver wire and solder first in a headphone when modding because I know for a fact that that will improve the sound with no negatives.

Trimming foam is not reversible and if you don't like the way it sounds its not replaceable so it would be difficult to verify by comparison before the mod. I don't think theres going to be many people willing to glue earpads onto their d7200s.

The tape I use is much more powerful than sorbothane at a fraction of the size. It makes the plastic mimic a much more dense and rigid material.

 

[dougms3]

Are there any pads that would fit the D7200 and are better sounding (according your study)? Something I can purchase rather than sew myself

I use these on the d7200s and my sony z7m2.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...tewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

 

[zolkis]

Measurements and listening is far from definitive proof that they're different drivers. Unless you've opened up the drivers and examining the magnet, voice coil and internal material of all 3. I'm going by the specs of all 3 and they're suspiciously identical. After all, this is a common thing Japanese manufacturers do.

Believe what you want, for myself I am pretty sure (because of my investigations and private communications) that they are different drivers made on different specs, but please check other sources as well. Moreover, you can buy a lot of variations of these drivers (magnetic circuit, impedance, diaphragm, etc) on Ali and will cost and measure and sound quite different. Granted, all of these do share some common elements.
If you believe they are the same drivers, then go ahead, buy the D5200 and mod them as you wish.
Changing the cables helps indeed, but of course you can't change the wire from the voice coil .

Are there any pads that would fit the D7200 and are better sounding (according your study)? Something I can purchase rather than sew myself

Not for the D7200 - its own modded pad is the best. Or look for shallow leather pads with bigger inner opening, e.g. these (even tough a bit thick, but cheap). Or some Vesper Audio pads, like this or this or this. But as I said, the headroom is small. There are some drivers on Ali that are cheap and a big change if you are bothered by the 3K ringing - but this is a big change and not easily done, and likely not reversible (I didn't do it, but @Maxx134 did).