[George Hincapie]

Ares II is just insanely good. I was so disappointed by Pontus II, that I sold it and bought Ares II again. It has a level of musicality I have found in very few DACs. In fact, it ran my £5K Metrum Acoustics Adagio embarrassingly close.

 

[LeonidK]

Ares II is just insanely good. I was so disappointed by Pontus II, that I sold it and bought Ares II again. It has a level of musicality I have found in very few DACs. In fact, it ran my £5K Metrum Acoustics Adagio embarrassingly close.

What did you miss in Pontus?

 

[George Hincapie]

What did you miss in Pontus?

I've said. Musicality. It is not the same presentation.

 

[LeonidK]

I've said. Musicality. It is not the same presentation.

What about resolution, stage depth? Do you miss a lot going for the cheaper model in those aspects?
Did you have a chance to compare with some Musician models?

 

[George Hincapie]

What about resolution, stage depth? Do you miss a lot going for the cheaper model in those aspects?
Did you have a chance to compare with some Musician models?

They are made by the same company, in the same factory, so I didn't bother. If what I've said already hasn't convinced you then I don't know what else to say. Buy one.

 

[LeonidK]

They are made by the same company, in the same factory, so I didn't bother. If what I've said already hasn't convinced you then I don't know what else to say. Buy one.

I'm not trying to push you, just musicality is perceived different by everyone. Regarding Musician's manufacturer, I don't know what to think anymore, I've heard good things about Denafrips' support and terrible things about Musician's. That's the main reason I'm still afraid to buy one, especially that the early units of Pegasus suffered from some issues. Perhaps I'll give Ares II a try one day, Pegasus usually gets better reviews, but Ares seems more reliable.

 

[Hyde00]

I'm not trying to push you, just musicality is perceived different by everyone. Regarding Musician's manufacturer, I don't know what to think anymore, I've heard good things about Denafrips' support and terrible things about Musician's. That's the main reason I'm still afraid to buy one, especially that the early units of Pegasus suffered from some issues. Perhaps I'll give Ares II a try one day, Pegasus usually gets better reviews, but Ares seems more reliable.

From what I read in terms of resolution, it's probably something like this:

Ares II < Draco < Pegasus < Pontus II

That being said musicality is a different thing, everyone perceive "musical" differently depending on their preference.

Also even between Ares II and Draco the presentation is different, I've had them side by side at one point.



Ares II is more mid sized stage and a little bit brighter and better vocal intimacy, and less bass.

Draco is more large sized stage and a little bit warmer / smoother but vocal a bit more distanced, and more bass.

Depending on preference you could perceive either as more musical. Haven't heard Pegasus or Pontus II so can't comment on that.

Though if you're talking strictly about "musical", I think SDAC is most musical to my taste LOL.



So you could treat any of what I said with grain of salt depending on if your taste is similar to mine or opposite of mine LOL.

Some might argue I have cheap taste LOL. (I also think Grado sounds good so your mileage may vary)

 

[Majors]

From what I read in terms of resolution, it's probably something like this:

Ares II < Draco < Pegasus < Pontus II

That being said musicality is a different thing, everyone perceive "musical" differently depending on their preference.

Also even between Ares II and Draco the presentation is different, I've had them side by side at one point.



Ares II is more mid sized stage and a little bit brighter and better vocal intimacy, and less bass.

Draco is more large sized stage and a little bit warmer / smoother but vocal a bit more distanced, and more bass.

Depending on preference you could perceive either as more musical. Haven't heard Pegasus or Pontus II so can't comment on that.

Though if you're talking strictly about "musical", I think SDAC is most musical to my taste LOL.



So you could treat any of what I said with grain of salt depending on if your taste is similar to mine or opposite of mine LOL.

Some might argue I have cheap taste LOL. (I also think Grado sounds good so your mileage may vary)

I would be curious to hear your findings after the latest 1.3/1.8 firmware for the Ares ll. To me the sound has been transformed from what it was originally.

 

[]eep]

I'm not trying to push you, just musicality is perceived different by everyone. Regarding Musician's manufacturer, I don't know what to think anymore, I've heard good things about Denafrips' support and terrible things about Musician's. That's the main reason I'm still afraid to buy one, especially that the early units of Pegasus suffered from some issues. Perhaps I'll give Ares II a try one day, Pegasus usually gets better reviews, but Ares seems more reliable.

It's a prickly story. I have over 15 years experience in Chinese Hifi and brands are a western idea. The Chinese have learned a lot over the last decades from copying making errors and improvements. Chinese are less individual and a factory can make products for different brands and specifications. They started out making lots of OEM and along the way got more confidence to sell under their own brand.

I did not hide my dislike for Musician Audio because it was obvious they just took a good design and 'improved' upon it where the main improvement was clearly marketing budget. They took out expensive solutions from the internals and spent it on BS marketing and reviews clearly under NDA. Any comparison to the original design was tabu where it was just too obvious.

Lack of support is also a real problem. Once the money's in you can go drop dead.

What I really did not appreciate was that they took away from the clear design decisions in favor of pure sound quality that Denafrips makes. Clean and fast power and simplest output stage (no opamps). That is what makes it so good sounding.

I've been modifying my own R2R dacs and came to the same conclusion: the simpler the output the more natural the sound. Louder treble really does not mean more resolution.

As to 'musical'; that word is so over used it hardly doesn't mean anything anymore. I mean reviewers use a rather consistent vocabulary. Or at least they used to. These days everybody is a 'reviewer' and are just saying words to sound important or knowledgeable. Language has high resolution when words are tightly defined and are not allowed to meander off in different direction. There was a day when gay meant happy and a cock was a rooster. Not to mention the British state broadcaster BBC or the German brand T&A. If we all spoke ancient Greek we would all be able to think clearer (the most precise and exact language).


What I noticed one day is that when I attended an acoustic summer concert in our 12th century church (nothing electronic) there was a huge hall and echo and I could not pinpoint every musician. No close miking or sparkly details with fairy dust on top. But it sounded just like the r2r dac I was working on. This became my new reference. The Ares and any other good R2R comes close to that.
The only thing to give attention to is the output level and impedance. On some instances the Ares will go into overmodulation. My own dac never does that because I tweaked it just do it doesn't. I've heard the same with an expensive Lampizator dac do don't sweat it.

 

[sajunky]

As to 'musical'; that word is so over used it hardly doesn't mean anything anymore. I mean reviewers use a rather consistent vocabulary. Or at least they used to. These days everybody is a 'reviewer' and are just saying words to sound important or knowledgeable. Language has high resolution when words are tightly defined and are not allowed to meander off in different direction. There was a day when gay meant happy and a cock was a rooster. Not to mention the British state broadcaster BBC or the German brand T&A. If we all spoke ancient Greek we would all be able to think clearer (the most precise and exact language).

Great post, it deserve a dozen 'likes', just want to add a comment to this part. A main difference between Pontus and Ares is compensation of ladder errors and power supply differences. In Pontus two complete ladders are stacked in parallel, so errors of one ladder are compensated by averaging. It is one thing. In the sign-magnitude design one set of resistors create positive half of a waveform and another a negative, so voltage difference between '+' and '-' power rails create distortions. It comes to a second benefit of adding a second ladder, as if polarity is reversed, these power supply differences are self-cancelled in a balanced design. Ares also has differential output, but ladder is not balanced. As a consequence Ares carries more harmonic distortion, where a second harmonic and multiplies can be pleasant if added in small quantities. The bottom of line is that untrained ear may interpret these distortions as more musical. This is my 1c+1c.

 

[ProLoL]

As for musicality, had the ares2 twice and sold it cause it was missing the R2r11 mk1 musicality and naturalness although the ares2 is more resolute. I'm a happy R2r11 owner, using it as dac plus pre to another preamp cause the tone of it's dac + headphone Amp is spot on and that's where the magic happens.
The ares2 is amazing by it self, would happily live with either.

 

[George Hincapie]

Great post, it deserve a dozen 'likes', just want to add a comment to this part. A main difference between Pontus and Ares is compensation of ladder errors and power supply differences. In Pontus two complete ladders are stacked in parallel, so errors of one ladder are compensated by averaging. It is one thing. In the sign-magnitude design one set of resistors create positive half of a waveform and another a negative, so voltage difference between '+' and '-' power rails create distortions. It comes to a second benefit of adding a second ladder, as if polarity is reversed, these power supply differences are self-cancelled in a balanced design. Ares also has differential output, but ladder is not balanced. As a consequence Ares carries more harmonic distortion, where a second harmonic and multiplies can be pleasant if added in small quantities. The bottom of line is that untrained ear may interpret these distortions as more musical. This is my 1c+1c.

Your last comment reads poorly; I'm sure you don't mean to come across as elitist.

I found your Ares/Pontus comments interesting. Whatever the cause, missing musicality in Pontus is real.

 

[sajunky]

Your last comment reads poorly; I'm sure you don't mean to come across as elitist.

I found your Ares/Pontus comments interesting. Whatever the cause, missing musicality in Pontus is real.

I had a long session with Ares 2 just moment before I got my R2R-11. It is a high resolving DAC, but on the musicality or excitement scale is low comparing to my R2R-11, I fully agree what @ProLoL said a moment ago. I upgraded it with fem-to second Crystek oscilators and I feel it should be now on a pair with Ares on resolution scale, but I hadn't got a chance to make a direct comparison. At the moment we talk about a completely different house of sound.

This laid back, calming character of Denafrips is a strong feature promoting long listening without any sign of fatigue. I expect that inside the same family differences are more subtle, it is why it let me think that this little bit more 2nd harmonic distortions which has a pleasing effect to our ears is a factor that you prefer Ares sound. If you look for more natural sound, which is violent and carries a lot of exitement without losing detais, I suggest to look at Audio GD R-1 or R-8Mk2. A former is little more expensive than Ares, but it has fully balanced ladder, however if founds allowed, I would invest in the later which costs exactly the same as Pontus.

 

[matthia]

I had a long session with Ares 2 just moment before I got my R2R-11. It is a high resolving DAC, but on the musicality or excitement scale is low comparing to my R2R-11, I fully agree what @ProLoL said a moment ago. I upgraded it with fem-to second Crystek oscilators and I feel it should be now on a pair with Ares on resolution scale, but I hadn't got a chance to make a direct comparison. At the moment we talk about a completely different house of sound.

This laid back, calming character of Denafrips is a strong feature promoting long listening without any sign of fatigue. I expect that inside the same family differences are more subtle, it is why it let me think that this little bit more 2nd harmonic distortions which has a pleasing effect to our ears is a factor that you prefer Ares sound. If you look for more natural sound, which is violent and carries a lot of exitement without losing detais, I suggest to look at Audio GD R-1 or R-8Mk2. A former is little more expensive than Ares, but it has fully balanced ladder, however if founds allowed, I would invest in the later which costs exactly the same as Pontus.

I have seen there is now a new version R-8Mk3.
BTW, you are an Audio GD expert and I would like to ask why Audio GD uses Amanero USB and not XMOS for example. I am just curious, I do not think that XMOS is superior.
Thx

Matt

 

[szore]

Anyone get to try the new AresII f/w released a few days ago? Curious if the sound